[Politics] Brexit

[Hastings gull]

I'm not disagreeing with you (and almost everyone else it seems) for the sake of it, but I don't understand the fuss.

The Mail adopts its editorial line of popular migrant bashing and low jingoism/high patriotism (delete to taste) for reasons of financial expediency. It is a marketing tool aimed at the demographic it wants to sell to. As the clever but apparently obnoxious Paul Dacre has said, the perfect cover headline to shift newspapers is one that makes the readers frightened or angry and preferably both. So if it is all right for the Mail to use that angle to make money why is it somehow wrong for others to use exactly the same angle against the company?

But it is hardly like for like, is it? The Mail is not asking for anyone's views to be suppressed and organisations to close down by starving them of finance.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

finding it all a bit sinister, having looked at the groups facebook page the aim seems to be to start a domino effect of advertisers that pull out of advertising in the mail,express and sun so they can no longer operate.........if thats not censorship by the back door im not sure what is.
its very similar to uni campuses stopping people speaking/lecturing because that persons opinion is not liked.
all a bit creepy

On the one hand we have the Express and others pouring out divisive anti-migrant messages day after day after day and on the other we have campaigners attempting to reduce the profits accruing as a result to the billionaire-led organisation behind it. You find one of these things 'sinister'. So do I.

 

[melias shoes]

On the other hand we have the Guardian and Mirror with their far more 'knowledgeable and intelligent views being read by the Elites with their greater knowledge and we're right you're wrong attitude. These papers would also I would imagine encourage this behaviour of the ruination of the Mail etc. Cutting off their finances and sponsorships. Now I don't profess to be a Mail reader/supporterbut what these So 'Hate campaigners are doing is quite disturbing. They've lost all the last 3 votes,general, brexit and to an extent the U.S. .So to combat this they spit their dummies out call the opposition racist, xenophobic,misogynist every type of ism you can imagine. Now this Hate thing to cut of the finances of disagreeing media outlets. Those of you that think that this is acceptable and right have to have word with yourselves. Like I've said I'm not a reader of the Mail.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

On the other hand we have the Guardian and Mirror with their far more 'knowledgeable and intelligent views being read by the Elites with their greater knowledge and we're right you're wrong attitude. These papers would also I would imagine encourage this behaviour of the ruination of the Mail etc. Cutting off their finances and sponsorships. Now I don't profess to be a Mail reader/supporterbut what these So 'Hate campaigners are doing is quite disturbing. They've lost all the last 3 votes,general, brexit and to an extent the U.S. .So to combat this they spit their dummies out call the opposition racist, xenophobic,misogynist every type of ism you can imagine. Now this Hate thing to cut of the finances of disagreeing media outlets. Those of you that think that this is acceptable and right have to have word with yourselves. Like I've said I'm not a reader of the Mail.

With respect, you're deploying a very common Brexit technique - that of wildly overstating your opponents' position and then attacking it. I am not calling Brexiters racist, xenophobic or misogynistic and as far as I know no other poster on here is using a brush of that sort of width. However, the Mail and Express are guilty of stirring the jingoist pot in a crude and inflammatory way. The chances of the little campaign 'cutting off their finances' are zero as you well know. Both those newspapers have made plenty of money out of their divisive xenophobia and all this campaign might achieve is to reduce that cashflow a smidgeon. The campaign is not against newspapers that supported Brexit, it's against newspapers that stir up hate. I don't think it will work but well done them for trying.

The Daily Mail makes its money out of sales and advertising. The campaign in question is trying to reduce the number of companies giving it advertising money. If you think this is terrible then to be consistent you'd also be furious if campaigners encouraged people to buy another newspaper instead. And that really would be odd.

 

[Soulman]

On the other hand we have the Guardian and Mirror with their far more 'knowledgeable and intelligent views being read by the Elites with their greater knowledge and we're right you're wrong attitude. These papers would also I would imagine encourage this behaviour of the ruination of the Mail etc. Cutting off their finances and sponsorships. Now I don't profess to be a Mail reader/supporterbut what these So 'Hate campaigners are doing is quite disturbing. They've lost all the last 3 votes,general, brexit and to an extent the U.S. .So to combat this they spit their dummies out call the opposition racist, xenophobic,misogynist every type of ism you can imagine. Now this Hate thing to cut of the finances of disagreeing media outlets. Those of you that think that this is acceptable and right have to have word with yourselves. Like I've said I'm not a reader of the Mail.

It is getting stupid now. How far do these groups intend to go to stop an alternative and different view.
The Guardian and similar are more subtle at stirring up hate and division, just that it is more acceptable if you are a reader or supporter of those papers.

 

[melias shoes]

With respect, you're deploying a very common Brexit technique - that of wildly overstating your opponents' position and then attacking it. I am not calling Brexiters racist, xenophobic or misogynistic and as far as I know no other poster on here is using a brush of that sort of width. However, the Mail and Express are guilty of stirring the jingoist pot in a crude and inflammatory way. The chances of the little campaign 'cutting off their finances' are zero as you well know. Both those newspapers have made plenty of money out of their divisive xenophobia and all this campaign might achieve is to reduce that cashflow a smidgeon. The campaign is not against newspapers that supported Brexit, it's against newspapers that stir up hate. I don't think it will work but well done them for trying.

The Daily Mail makes its money out of sales and advertising. The campaign in question is trying to reduce the number of companies giving it advertising money. If you think this is terrible then to be consistent you'd also be furious if campaigners encouraged people to buy another newspaper instead. And that really would be odd.

The whole thing is wrong and the people encouraging this are the usual self righteous we're right you're wrong elites. Pure and simple.

 

[melias shoes]

It is getting stupid now. How far do these groups intend to go to stop an alternative and different view.
The Guardian and similar are more subtle at stirring up hate and division, just that it is more acceptable if you are a reader or supporter of those papers.

Correct.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

The whole thing is wrong and the people encouraging this are the usual self righteous we're right you're wrong elites. Pure and simple.

There you go. In two sentences you've managed to accuse other people of something and simultaneously reveal that it's you that is guilty of it.

 

[yxee]

On the one hand we have the Express and others pouring out divisive anti-migrant messages day after day after day and on the other we have campaigners attempting to reduce the profits accruing as a result to the billionaire-led organisation behind it. You find one of these things 'sinister'. So do I.

Pro-censorship is much more sinister than anti-immigration, in my opinion. You have to take a philosophical stance. What if a right-wing group succeeded in cutting funding from the Guardian? Would you concede that it's 'fair game' because some people didn't like what they printed?

Slippery slope!

Press are part of the checks/balances in our democratic system. It'd be much better if we were adults, and read newspapers with awareness of their hidden agendas, rather than feeling the need to nanny other people by restricting their literature, literature that you personally disagree with.

 

[melias shoes]

There you go. In two sentences you've managed to accuse other people of something and simultaneously reveal that it's you that is guilty of it.

I rest my case.

 

[melias shoes]

Pro-censorship is much more sinister than anti-immigration, in my opinion. You have to take a philosophical stance. What if a right-wing group succeeded in cutting funding from the Guardian? Would you concede that it's 'fair game' because some people didn't like what they printed?

Slippery slope!

Press are part of the checks/balances in our democratic system. It'd be much better if we were adults, and read newspapers with awareness of their hidden agendas, rather than feeling the need to nanny other people by restricting their literature, literature that you personally disagree with.

They just don't get it do they. We'll actually they do.

 

[Pintos]

To what extent are the newspapers altering people's mindsets, and to what extent are they merely a mirror of the views of the people? I don't know, but I think free lego is one of the better solutions.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Pro-censorship is much more sinister than anti-immigration, in my opinion. You have to take a philosophical stance. What if a right-wing group succeeded in cutting funding from the Guardian? Would you concede that it's 'fair game' because some people didn't like what they printed?

Slippery slope!

Press are part of the checks/balances in our democratic system. It'd be much better if we were adults, and read newspapers with awareness of their hidden agendas, rather than feeling the need to nanny other people by restricting their literature, literature that you personally disagree with.

In my view your argument falls down on several levels.

1. The Stop Funding Hate campaign is no more 'pro-censorship' than encouraging people not to buy the newspaper in question. Both involve reducing income. Many writers - Rod Liddle's an example - often set out to discourage people not to buy the Guardian and there is no difference in principle between this and SFH at all.

2. There is also no difference between SFH and the Hillsborough campaign against the Sun. Both are/were wanting wanting to cut a newspaper's income in response to what it felt was disgusting journalism. Legitimate protests - if you find one campaign sinister then you must find both of them sinister.

3. This is not about people 'not liking what is printed'. If it was as simple as an attack on Brexit-leaning newspapers there would be a campaign to persuade readers and advertisers away from the Telegraph. There isn't.

4. While you could argue that Rod Liddle's ultimate intention is to close down the Guardian and Liverpool's to close down the Sun, we all know that the actual hope is to stick an ignited sparkler up those organisations' bottoms. And that is all the SFH campaign is trying to do. It was all our campaign against Focus DIY was trying to do for that matter.

5. To pretend that this is some sort of fundamental attack on democracy is just daft. People need to climb down from the pulpit.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Ooops. Told you.

France to close UK border at Calais

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Ooops. Told you.

France to close UK border at Calais

Do please behave. As Pastafarian and Footy Genius repeatedly explained to us before the referendum this isn't going to happen. Anyone suggesting that France would shift the border is just a Project Fear merchant. Anyone believing it is just a gullible fool.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Do please behave. As Pastafarian and Footy Genius repeatedly explained to us before the referendum this isn't going to happen. Anyone suggesting that France would shift the border is just a Project Fear merchant. Anyone believing it is just a gullible fool.

I hope Farage likes Jungle style camps in his Kentish garden.

Still, as everyone now accepts, the BBC is full of Liberal Elite bias. About time it started taking advertising. "This week's episode of Have I Got News For You was brought to you in conjunction with the Daily Mail". That sort of thing. That'd soon see an end to these sorts of scare story.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

I hope Farage likes Jungle style camps in his Kentish garden.

Still, as everyone now accepts, the BBC is full of Liberal Elite bias. About time it started taking advertising. "This week's episode of Have I Got News For You was brought to you in conjunction with the Daily Mail". That sort of thing. That'd soon see an end to these sorts of scare story.

Careful. They won't realise you're joking.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Do please behave. As Pastafarian and Footy Genius repeatedly explained to us before the referendum this isn't going to happen. Anyone suggesting that France would shift the border is just a Project Fear merchant. Anyone believing it is just a gullible fool.

But The Daily Telegraph was reporting this could happen just 2 days after the vote - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...or-migrant-camps-to-be-moved-to-britain-foll/

I thought they read that paper?

 

[yxee]

Pretty funny. They let migrants into their country. They let them travel across their country. They don't register any of them. They let them set up camp in Calais for years. They don't like having a camp there. They blame the British. And now they threaten to remove the border.

The only reason the camp is there is because we're so much more competent at controlling our borders than they are. And their proposed solution, rather than taking control of their own borders, is to try to undermine ours. Having failed to prevent the problem they now try to offload it onto someone else.

It is ridiculous and hilarious how the French try to make their internal issue someone else's problem.

They won't close the border. Remember what their farmers did when we rejected their beef?

 

[Two Professors]

I don't mind them coming if they can walk from Calais!