[Politics] Brexit

[ManOfSussex]

How can you say that? This wasn't a question on the ballot. The few people I know who voted to leave all point to reasons such as using the money on national needs such as the nhs or reducing uncontrolled immigration. Not one has said they wanted to come out of the single market

Most of my friends who voted leave, some of whom are degree educated, did so for various reasons and not one of them thought we'd end up leaving the single market either, as it would be in both parties interests post Brexit they were adamant in their belief we would stay in the single market.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

People who voted LEAVE weren't voting to STAY in the single market. The only person who claims he did that is the Tory MP who recently resigned, presumably in embarrassment at his error.

The Next and Weatherspoons owners, both funders and campaigners during the leave campaign would both prefer to stay in the single market.

This thread isn't about Brexit anyway, but that is the big political issue, May is week and kowtowing to the right of her party, she refuses to criticise the right wing press, talks about helping the struggling whist planning to implement disability benefit cuts. Had 3 MPs quit under her resulting in 3 by-elections. Talks about the importance of the EU in relation to our economy then 6 months later is driving us out of it because shes terrified of the Daily Mail and the Sun. The Tories have somehow found someone less competent then Cameron, but at least it's not Leadsom I guess.

 

[GOM]

They won't tell us anything because either a. they haven't got a clue or b. they (May and her Brexit stooges) are too afraid to create ruptures within the party. This is why they won't hold a GE because they will have to fight it with a clear stance on Brexit which could tear the party apart, 3 of her MPs have already quit under her. Furthermore, if they are too soft the UKIP will surge, if they are too hard the seats won off the liberals will dissappear. Lots of taunting from the tories but I don't think an early GE will be quite so rosy and it feels like we all.could be in a very different place in 2020, all manner of things could happen like the economy collapsing again.

So we are going through Brexit led by an unelected leader based on a 52% vote and ultimately not knowing what we are going to get from it other than almost certain short term financial pain. It stinks and the current Tory hierarchy are making the u-turn kid Osborne look competent.

God British politics is depressing at the moment.

They won't hold an election because of something called a fixed term Parliament, not because of any of your notions.

We never have an elected leader, we have an elected party, whose leader takes the role of PM. I think you are getting confused with the current presidential election over the water.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

They won't hold an election because of something called a fixed term Parliament, not because of any of your notions.

We never have an elected leader, we have an elected party, whose leader takes the role of PM. I think you are getting confused with the current presidential election over the water.

Unless there is a 2/3 vote to hold a GE (which admittedly would require Labour SNP and Liberal support) or there is a vote of no confidence.

 

[Steve in Japan]

How can you say that? This wasn't a question on the ballot. The few people I know who voted to leave all point to reasons such as using the money on national needs such as the nhs or reducing uncontrolled immigration. Not one has said they wanted to come out of the single market

Because the EU has been absolutely unyielding that freedom of movement is a condition of being in the single market. And because both Leave campaigns were conducted for months saying that voting Leave would enable us to control immigration. So call me stupid, but the connection between those two statements indicated that if you voted Leave whilst remaining committed to the single market, you were kind of missing the point. If you prioritised staying in the single market, then you'd have voted Remain.

In my view, there are legitimate ways to avoid implementing the Referendum result, but they would require the EU giving some ground. It could happen but I won't be holding my breath.

 

[Mental Lental]

All the papers say so ? Plus the people who actually live in the areas affected....

Yes, yes, we know. Scared to leave their homes they are. Can't even pop down the shop for some milk without running into hordes of burka wearing, machete wielding maniacs.

 

[vegster]

They won't hold an election because of something called a fixed term Parliament, not because of any of your notions.

We never have an elected leader, we have an elected party, whose leader takes the role of PM. I think you are getting confused with the current presidential election over the water.

Which way do you want it? Apparently the Labour Party is " Unelectable " under Corbyn. We may not elect a Pm directly but the leader of a party is a hugely important factor in a general election vote...she was about 5th in line to the leadership and only got the job as others knifed each other in the front and back.

She has no policy ideas and at PMQ's she makes Jeremy Corbyn appear a statesman as she trips over her answers and scripted jibes.

 

[Surf's Up]

She's learning on the job, trying to buy time for herself at a time when she doesnt have that luxury, she is a characterless uninspiring leader with zero personality, elected as "a safe pair of hands" but is demonstrating that she isn't even that, having appointed the 3 Brexit nasties to take responsibility for Brexit I'm pretty certain she will lose control of them etc etc etc etc etc. And in the alternative ladies and gentlemen I give you .....................Jeremy Corbin!! Jesus we're ****ed.

 

[Bozza]

It's far too early to say whether she is out of her depth or not.

I do find her completely uninspiring though. I wonder if that view will be shared by the wider electorate, or if Labour are giving the Tories such a free hit it doesn't actually matter.

 

[beorhthelm]

Stupid post I'm afraid. No one has said they want the full details of negotiations ...

yes they have, Labour, SNP and other groups are constantly asking for details on this or that policy. i completely agree that the government should provide some outline strategy, but the opposition isnt making a sensible set of requests for that (did you see the 140 questions what ever it was? such trivial details)

 

[Thunder Bolt]

They won't hold an election because of something called a fixed term Parliament, not because of any of your notions.

There are two ways under the FTPA that an election can be called ahead of schedule.

The first is if two thirds of MPs vote to hold an election. This is a very high bar and would in practice require both Labour and Conservative support.

The second is if there is a no confidence vote in the government of the day. After such a vote other parties are given 14 days to form another government. If none can be formed, a new election is held.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

Because the EU has been absolutely unyielding that freedom of movement is a condition of being in the single market. And because both Leave campaigns were conducted for months saying that voting Leave would enable us to control immigration. So call me stupid, but the connection between those two statements indicated that if you voted Leave whilst remaining committed to the single market, you were kind of missing the point. If you prioritised staying in the single market, then you'd have voted Remain.

In my view, there are legitimate ways to avoid implementing the Referendum result, but they would require the EU giving some ground. It could happen but I won't be holding my breath.

It's a shambles that arguments of this nature can even happen now. When political bodies can't hold a watertight election... Piss up in a brewery springs to mind...

So, legitimate ways? EU, gives us border control, and a deal that mirrors the current free trade?

 

[Bozza]

There are two ways under the FTPA that an election can be called ahead of schedule.

The first is if two thirds of MPs vote to hold an election. This is a very high bar and would in practice require both Labour and Conservative support.

The second is if there is a no confidence vote in the government of the day. After such a vote other parties are given 14 days to form another government. If none can be formed, a new election is held.

Yet on one of the news programmes last night, a reporter was badgering May about calling an election. Why didn't she just reply "I can't"?

 

[spring hall convert]

Who wouldn't be out of their depth in this post Brexit shit storm?

That's a very fair point.

 

[Simster]

It's far too early to say whether she is out of her depth or not.

I do find her completely uninspiring though. I wonder if that view will be shared by the wider electorate, or if Labour are giving the Tories such a free hit it doesn't actually matter.

This is where I am. I have not been impressed with her "Brexit means Brexit" mantra for two reasons. Firstly, it is hollow meaningless bollocks. Secondly, it alienates the half who voted to remain. A good prime minister would be quietly making noises to highlight to everyone which direction she is going to take. She should be making everyone aware of the risks and pitfalls, and reassuring the public with more detail over where she plans to turn it into an advantage.

 

[spring hall convert]

It seems we're awash with lefty socialists nowadays who're derailing things because they always seem to be right all the bloody time....twats!!

So awash with them, that we have a Conservative government.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Yet on one of the news programmes last night, a reporter was badgering May about calling an election. Why didn't she just reply "I can't"?

Avoiding the question so that she doesn't sound weak?

 

[Simster]

Avoiding the question so that she doesn't sound weak?

Do you really think that question avoidance shows strength? It was a bit feeble in my opinion (she was only asked twice I think) . Anyway I think it's more pertinent that she was ever asked the question in the first place.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Stupid post I'm afraid. No one has said they want the full details of negotiations but the basis of Brexit should be known, ie whether we are aiming to be in or out of the free market for example. If in, how we achieve that is for the negotiators.

"..... And let’s be clear about what is going to happen.

Article Fifty – triggered no later than the end of March.

A Great Repeal Bill to get rid of the European Communities Act – introduced in the next Parliamentary session.

Our laws made not in Brussels but in Westminster.

Our judges sitting not in Luxembourg but in courts across the land.

The authority of EU law in this country ended forever.

The people told us they wanted these things – and this Conservative Government is going to deliver them.

It is, of course, too early to say exactly what agreement we will reach with the EU. It’s going to be a tough negotiation, it will require some give and take. And while there will always be pressure to give a running commentary, it will not be in our national interest to do so.

But let me be clear about the agreement we seek.

I want it to reflect the strong and mature relationships we enjoy with our European friends.

I want it to include cooperation on law enforcement and counter-terrorism work.

I want it to involve free trade, in goods and services.

I want it to give British companies the maximum freedom to trade with and operate within the Single Market – and let European businesses do the same here.

But let’s state one thing loud and clear: we are not leaving the European Union only to give up control of immigration all over again. And we are not leaving only to return to the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. That’s not going to happen."

Prime Ministers Conference speech seemed to give us the basis for Brexit.

 

[Bozza]

Avoiding the question so that she doesn't sound weak?

I don't buy that at all. Surely the answer is "Under the Fixed Term Parliament Act, I am not able to call an election even if I wanted to. However, even if I could, I wouldn't as I believe the current government are best placed to steer the country through the Brexit process."

It's not weakness to not doing something because she can't due to changes made before she was on the scene. It may also have finally got the "May can't call an election" realisation into the heads of those who seem oblivious to it.