Breakaway Labour Party.

[Hampster Gull]

Scotland won't vote for independence, fact.

Scotland will be an independent nation in your lifetime. As much "fact" as your statement but far more likely

 

[alfredmizen]

Luckily we have no recent examples in British history of people voting on a nationalistic agenda despite the weight of economic opinion warning of economic meltdown



Oh

Nobody prophesised economic ''meltdown'' , but that is certainly what faces Scotland with Brent at $49 a barrel, they couldnt make the numbers work at $119 a barrel.

 

[ROSM]

You are right on oil but don't forget that a Scotland in Europe would be an interesting base for many British companies wanting to retain a European presence. It could actually create a positive economic gain for them in the long term question is which type of short and medium term pain do scots want. The one we will have or the one they would own

 

[Brovion]

Nobody prophesised economic ''meltdown'' , but that is certainly what faces Scotland with Brent at $49 a barrel, they couldnt make the numbers work at $119 a barrel.

You're right, and they won't make that mistake again. What they could do though is try and position Scotland as the 'Gateway to (rump) Britain'. Tell companies to set up bases in Scotland and that way they'll get the best of both worlds: not only an EU base but a base in the EU nation that has the best trading relationship with RumpUK. Depends of course on the divorce settlement that they negotiate with us - but if unpicking forty five years of European integration is going to be tricky then unpicking centuries of Anglo-Scottish links to the extent where Scotland becomes 'just another EU nation' is going to be nigh-on impossible.

EDIT: And if I'd read the next post I'd have seen that ROSM has made a similar point!

 

[Seagull1989]

Labour under Corbyn are the only real alternative for me. I would love the left wing parts of the party to merge with the Greens. Corbyn and Caroline Lucas would be great for the UK .

I could never see a centre ground Labour Party winning anything as they will always get "can't be trusted on the economy" associated with them .

I really hope Corbyn stays and will be voting for him in any leadership election

 

[Biscuit Barrel]

Lib Dems are terminally tainted now IMHO. Better to cherry pick Lib Dem talent and get them to defect from that sunk ship.

 

[Titanic]

With the Unions backing Corbyn's Old Labour.... how would a breakaway party of the semi-electable centre-left fund itself?

 

[Stato]

Labour under Corbyn are the only real alternative for me. I would love the left wing parts of the party to merge with the Greens. Corbyn and Caroline Lucas would be great for the UK .

I could never see a centre ground Labour Party winning anything as they will always get "can't be trusted on the economy" associated with them .

I really hope Corbyn stays and will be voting for him in any leadership election

Last Thursday changed everything. It is going to be quite difficult for the Conservative party to suggest that any other party 'can't be trusted on the economy' when they have shown clearly that they are more concerned with their own internal arguments than with the economic and political stability of the UK. A Labour Party with responsible looking leadership in coalition with the SNP could look like a knight in shining armour to a lot of those who were terrified by the prospect last year.

 

[beorhthelm]

Last Thursday changed everything. It is going to be quite difficult for the Conservative party to suggest that any other party 'can't be trusted on the economy' when they have shown clearly that they are more concerned with their own internal arguments than with the economic and political stability of the UK. A Labour Party with responsible looking leadership in coalition with the SNP...

reckon you'll more likley see a hundred Labour form some temporay coalition with the Tories than a Labour/SNP coalition. while they have simliar general policies, a deal would surrender Scotland to the SNP forever, precisely because they are similar. why bother to vote Scottish Labour?

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Umanna and Miliband D leading the centre right of the Labour Party in coalition with the Lib Dems and with either an agreement with the SNP or a few dozen pro-EU Tories (doubt you can have both) with a moderate manifesto including electoral reform and a commitment to hold either an immediate or post-negotiation referendum on EU membership.

If anyone could build that they would be back in power for a very long time. Remember, the Social Democrats would have broken the system 35 years ago if it hadn't been for the Argentinians.

 

[Ernest]

With the Unions backing Corbyn's Old Labour.... how would a breakaway party of the semi-electable centre-left fund itself?

Tony Blair could fund it with some of the millions he has made since leaving office, Chilcot report excepting of course as he may have other problems to deal with !

 

[Titanic]

Tony Blair could fund it with some of the millions he has made since leaving office, Chilcot report excepting of course as he may have other problems to deal with !

That's the most sensible thing you have said all day

 

[el punal]

There was something similar 30-odd years ago - the infamous 'Gang of Four' (Shirley Williams, William Rodgers, David Owen and Roy Jenkins). They called it the Social Democratic Party, and elected David Owen as the first leader. They eventually merged with The Liberal Party to form The Liberal Democrats, and had David Owen and David Steele as joint leaders.

Spitting Image had a field day.

1983 General Election - " Go back to your constituencies and prepare for government! ". Ouch!

P.S. Or was it the 1987 one?

 

[The Albion Roar]

1983 General Election - " Go back to your constituencies and prepare for government! ". Ouch!

P.S. Or was it the 1987 one?

Mid 80s sometime.

Or, as Spitting Image had it...

[David Steel is talking to himself in the mirror] "Go back to your constituencies and prepare for a bit of a disappointment..."

Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk

 

[Don Quixote]

Labour under Corbyn are the only real alternative for me. I would love the left wing parts of the party to merge with the Greens. Corbyn and Caroline Lucas would be great for the UK .



I could never see a centre ground Labour Party winning anything as they will always get "can't be trusted on the economy" associated with them .



I really hope Corbyn stays and will be voting for him in any leadership election

And how will he do anything with the backing of only 40 MPs? No, he's got to go or the party will split.

 

[Hastings gull]

Labour under Corbyn are the only real alternative for me. I would love the left wing parts of the party to merge with the Greens. Corbyn and Caroline Lucas would be great for the UK .

I could never see a centre ground Labour Party winning anything as they will always get "can't be trusted on the economy" associated with them .

I really hope Corbyn stays and will be voting for him in any leadership election

If a centre-left party cannot be trusted with the economy, as you write, how would Corbyn staying be good, as a far left-wing group would be trusted even less.

 

[fat old seagull]

Something I'm hoping for - a new centre party. Will I vote for them - no idea - but it really is time for a new voice.

Couldn't bring myself ever to vote for New Labour which will probably surprise a few on here who have been subject to nappy terrorism.

Why ? mmm difficult but can be described as urban smugness - really winds me up. I voted remain but I gritted my teeth when faced with their hipster fake cool Britannia ad mans wet dream.

That really why I genuinely struggle to generally vote.

Tories - nasty.
Lib Dems - Falmer - nuff said.
New Labour - Bugger off back to Islington and cook your Gnocchi.
Old Labour - Waiting For The Great Leap Forward - but what's that musty smell ? (obviously attractive to students, it's like finding a shit ironic pub that sells cheap beer)
UKIP - F@@@@ off !

What I need is something shiny and new that I can irrationally hate slightly less than the rest.

I've found it....Disband 'Party' politics altogether, it's archaic and holds us back. Why oh why can't we all just vote for the best, honest, sensible candidate in our constituency. And let common sense do the rest. Parliament is a feckin joke, bloody embarrassing bunch of kids slagging each other off!

 

[Brovion]

Labour under Corbyn are the only real alternative for me. I would love the left wing parts of the party to merge with the Greens. Corbyn and Caroline Lucas would be great for the UK .

I could never see a centre ground Labour Party winning anything as they will always get "can't be trusted on the economy" associated with them .

I really hope Corbyn stays and will be voting for him in any leadership election

Yeah, I often hear it bandied about that some sort of Labour/Green alliance would be 'great' as if the two parties were natural bedfellows. Well in metropolitan areas such as Brighton that is possibly true, but in 'heartland' Labour, the Greens are viewed with the same level of contempt as the Tories. For example: now we're out of the EU we can bin all their environmental controls surrounding energy production. This means our steel industry can survive (as the cost of energy was one of the major factors) and also ordinary working people can get cheap energy. Preserving jobs and cheap energy. For Heartland Labour that is a great policy; for Metropolitan Labour it's a dreadful retrograde step.

I'm not sure how these two views can now be accommodated in the same party.

 

[Insel affe]

Brand new Labour/Green fusion party would be just GRAND. New rules, all historical ties swept away, Caroline Lucas installed as leader. Time for a new politics.

This with bells on working class party for working class people with ethics without ignoring the fact 16 million people voted out and a large portion of those come from labour heartlands and must not be ignored.

1000% behind

 

[highflyer]

Yeah, I often hear it bandied about that some sort of Labour/Green alliance would be 'great' as if the two parties were natural bedfellows. Well in metropolitan areas such as Brighton that is possibly true, but in 'heartland' Labour, the Greens are viewed with the same level of contempt as the Tories. For example: now we're out of the EU we can bin all their environmental controls surrounding energy production. This means our steel industry can survive (as the cost of energy was one of the major factors) and also ordinary working people can get cheap energy. Preserving jobs and cheap energy. For Heartland Labour that is a great policy; for Metropolitan Labour it's a dreadful retrograde step.
I'm not sure how these two views can now be accommodated in the same party.

This is true. Greens like me will struggle to connect with Labour 'heartlands' just as much as any new 'New Labour' party will. To her credit Lucas is grown up enough to understand this and if the opportunity arises will I think be prepared to compromise. But she'd struggle to bring much of the rest of the Green Party with her. I still think it is the only way forward from here though. Anyway, it is SNP not Greens that are the really challenging bedfellows for labour. But a shift towards supporting Independence by Scottish Labour (which may well happen now) could change that.

BTW, I suspect the Steel industry is now fu*ked, because any potential investors will be put off by the uncertainty surrounding access to EU market?