[News] Braking news - more train strikes over the Christmas period announced

[Zeberdi]

point I was trying to make earlier.

I already made the same point too which is why I said there needs to be provision for people like myself, requiring assistance on trains due to disability if it goes in the direction of unmanned trains - (Rippleman was talking about staff at the station which is a separate thing to staff on trains - there are already no staff at most rural stations, including mine!)

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Like the Post Office workers who had a new system which ended up with over 400 of them being put in prison for 'fraud'?

Are the post office staff not unionised?

Using one cluster f*** doesnt stop the need for progression.

 

[Zeberdi]

The suggestion would also take staff off trains, there would be no one to help anyone off the train without literally decades and decades of new technology and rebuild of the majority of infrastructure.

We are going round in circles - That is why I was quite clear in an earlier post, they should not move to completely unmanned trains as provision needs to be made for very elderly and disabled people - also for public safety reasons.

 

[The Clamp]

This current shit show is what results when a service is privatised and profit is used to reward fat-cats and not improve said service.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

This current shit show is what results when a service is privatised and profit is used to reward fat-cats and not improve said service.

Plenty of Public areas are an absolute shit show as well.

Privatising done right can work

 

[LamieRobertson]

Are the post office staff not unionised?

Using one cluster f*** doesnt stop the need for progression.

Of course something going wrong means nothing new must be introduced lol

 

[The Clamp]

Plenty of Public areas are an absolute shit show as well.

Privatising done right can work

I agree.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Are the post office staff not unionised?

Using one cluster f*** doesnt stop the need for progression.

There is an incorrect assumption made by many of us, that the unions are opposed to progress.
In my experience most workers are all for progress in their professions and are usually best placed to evaluate whether the proposed solution will deliver the progress that senior management hoped it would.

Of course the Union will have vested interests in ensuring it doesn't jeopardise pay and conditions, but equally there is vested interest from senior management that it will maximise profits. A decent company will work alongside it's employee representatives to find the happy medium.

The TCOs aren't permitted to do this as the government decide how the negotiations are handled.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Are the post office staff not unionised?

Using one cluster f*** doesnt stop the need for progression.

Sub postmasters are under contract to the Post Office but in effect were self employed. The new technology, Horison, was flawed, and bugs were reported but ignored. Over 700 were prosecuted in courts, and over 400 sent to prison. Fujitsu, the manufacturer denied there was anything wrong with the programme.
People lost their jobs, their homes and all because new technology was faulty and the top bosses wouldn't admit it.

Post Office Horizon scandal: Why hundreds were wrongly prosecuted

Hundreds of wrongly convicted sub-postmasters have had their convictions quashed.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Plenty of Public areas are an absolute shit show as well.

Privatising done right can work

Yeah - it is a good idea to let the privatised industry manage it's own industrial negotiations IMO

 

[Thunder Bolt]

We are going round in circles - That is why I was quite clear in an earlier post, they should not move to completely unmanned trains as provision needs to be made for very elderly and disabled people - also for public safety reasons.

Unfortunately, they will, and say there was no staff available that day. That's why people have been stuck.

 

[The Clamp]

But I am not the one accusing you of being selfish - check back my earlier posts before you condemn people who like me are getting impatient - I have no car, no access to anyone else’s car, registered disabled, live in a semi-rural area with no hospital, a crappy bus service and entirely dependent on taking the train to the nearest hospital 50 miles away for ongoing treatment for a degenerative neurological condition as well as cancer checkups.

I’m not asking for pity but don’t expect me to welcome strikes with open arms in most of the days in the run up to Christmas when it will mean cancelled hospital appointments and possibly cancelled trips home and don’t imply I’m being f***ing selfish because I have the guts to say so

I am genuinely sorry for your circumstances but I merely suggested others might also be inconvenienced. Clearly not to your level.

Unfortunately the purpose of a strike is to inconvenience people. Enough to force the hand of the employer.


I hope you manage to get to your appointments and that things improve for you if possible.

There are some charities and PIP funds that may be able to help with your transport to and from appointments. I’ll maybe be able to find some links when I get to work later. If I do, I’ll PM you .

 

[Bozza]

Sub postmasters are under contract to the Post Office but in effect were self employed. The new technology, Horison, was flawed, and bugs were reported but ignored. Over 700 were prosecuted in courts, and over 400 sent to prison. Fujitsu, the manufacturer denied there was anything wrong with the programme.
People lost their jobs, their homes and all because new technology was faulty and the top bosses wouldn't admit it.

Post Office Horizon scandal: Why hundreds were wrongly prosecuted

Hundreds of wrongly convicted sub-postmasters have had their convictions quashed.

www.bbc.co.uk

Indeed - it was a dreadful scandal.

But, implicitly at least, the point you are making can be taken as "Here is one example of a new systems implementation which went wrong, therefore we should never undertake any more new systems implementations in case they go wrong too."

Which is bizarre.

 

[Zeberdi]

Unfortunately, they will, and say there was no staff available that day. That's why people have been stuck.

Ive been ok to date on Southeastern, Great Northern and East Anglian trains - but I have avoided travelling in peak hours (to get a seat and also, being clinically at high risk, to avoid overcrowding).

But yes, often passengers have been willing to help me if travelling with a case/bags - but then for 30 years, I have been helping people on and off trains with their cases before I was taken ill so I have no qualms in accepting the kind help of strangers.

As stated earlier, some, IMO most of the proposals put forward as conditions of receiving a 4% pay rise are outrageous- as a life long labour movement activist, it infuriates me. I hope they don’t accept what’s currently on the table but I do hope the union thinks about staggered strikes to keep a minimal service going or at least spread strike action further apart and not at the very height of the Christmas season.

 

[rippleman]

The point that seems to be missed here is that T&C’s need to be updated because they are so unbelievably antiquated. The fact that on public transport a Sunday will only now be seen as a normal day sums it up.

Also the claim that wage increases must keep up with cost of inflation is disingenuous and unrealistic. No company can afford to give a double digits increase in one year, everyone has to accept that due to external factors we will all take a hit this year. Also, interesting that in all the years that wage increases in the rail industry were above inflation they were gladly accepted despite the antiquated working conditions.

In the main I am supporter of unions defending their members but the ridiculous working practices that continue to plague our railways need to be addressed.

Err - and umm - the barristers got 15%! And after a 3 year pupilage they are on around £40K PA. So the government gave the magic money tree a good shake to come up with the money for the barristers but SFA for the nurses.

Nurses been offered 4% and a newly qualified nurse is on around £23K PA

I've yet to find any rationale for barristers getting such a huge inflation busting pay hike. Anybody out there got the answer?

"The Independent Review of Criminal Legal Aid found that, before expenses, the median fee of a criminal barrister in 2019-20 was £79,800 and that 80 percent earn at least £45,000 after expenses. While junior barristers earn much less in their first couple of years of practice, by their third year of practice the average criminal barrister will earn £65,000 before expenses."

Criminal barristers to receive 15 percent fee rise in September

Criminal barristers will receive a 15 percent fee rise from the end of September, the government has confirmed today (30 June 2022).

www.gov.uk

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Indeed - it was a dreadful scandal.

But, implicitly at least, the point you are making can be taken as "Here is one example of a new systems implementation which went wrong, therefore we should never undertake any more new systems implementations in case they go wrong too."

Which is bizarre.

You could think that, but that isn't my intention. I worked with lots of new programmes during my working life. Some cause more problems than they solved, but I do think management should consult the joe bloggs who actually have to do the job, and test it thoroughly, before implementing it.

A neighbour works for the NHS IT team and knew this would be a pain, but who listened?

Abandoned NHS IT system has cost £10bn so far

Bill for abortive plan, described as 'the biggest IT failure ever seen', was originally estimated to be £6.4bn

www.theguardian.com

Unions are right to ask for clarification on new job practices and ask management to discuss it.

 

[Bozza]

Err - and umm - the barristers got 15%! And after a 3 year pupilage they are on around £40K PA. So the government gave the magic money tree a good shake to come up with the money for the barristers but SFA for the nurses.

Nurses been offered 4% and a newly qualified nurse is on around £23K PA

I've yet to find any rationale for barristers getting such a huge inflation busting pay hike. Anybody out there got the answer?

Whilst not justifying it, I don't think it's difficult to explain...

Publicly-funded criminal barristers in the UK: c2,600
Nurses in the UK: c360,000

It's a lot cheaper to give 2.600 people a hefty rise than it is to give 360,000 people.

 

[jackalbion]

Indeed - it was a dreadful scandal.

But, implicitly at least, the point you are making can be taken as "Here is one example of a new systems implementation which went wrong, therefore we should never undertake any more new systems implementations in case they go wrong too."

Which is bizarre.

We should have new systems, but many in here are saying that the unions should have no input into the implementation at all, this is a great example of how their help with implementing the system is helpful.

The may 2018 timetable was a great example of companies and government forcing through changes without seeing if they actually worked on the ground (I wrote my dissertation on the May 2018 timetable actually).

 

[Bozza]

We should have new systems, but many in here are saying that the unions should have no input into the implementation at all, this is a great example of how their help with implementing the system is helpful.

Unless workers and unions are one and the same, I'd agree with that.

Frontline workers should always be fully engaged in systems implementations as they are subject matter experts with hands-on day-to-day operational knowledge and experience.

Unions are not railway operations subject matter experts.

 

[beorhthelm]

...We now have a hybrid situation which doesn’t favour anyone. The irony is since the Railways Act 1993 prevented the State from running the railways, many foreign state owned enterprises now run private rail franchises in the UK.

say that like its a bad thing. why would we want some career politician with a PPE from oxbridge, in post for 2 years before off to another, to run the railways. best leave it to people who know what they are doing. the Network Rail model is obvious solve, seperate arms length org. in theory they could even raise funds via bonds) directly if allowed, so helps investment. only a matter of time, Labour will end the franchises and not want the direct cost or responsibility burden of full nationalisation.