[Football] Bolton Wanderers on the Brink?

[Guy Fawkes]

So, on balance, thank goodness for Bill Archer? (He did give us some breathing space....)

If the alternative was Bill Archer and all the stuff that went after than or absolutely no other alternative as an owner (including ruling out fans taking ownership, etc) and the club being wound up - meaning we'd lose the club and we wouldn't currently be playing Premier League football at the Amex with an owner who has put millions of their own money in - what would you think was the better of the 2 evils (Archer taking over when he did or having no club?)

If we had gone out of business, there may well have been a phoenix club, but it doesn't mean we'd have escaped non league by now, or have a ground any better than when we were renting Withdean at best, and we certainly would have struggled to convince any councils and the Government to build a new ground at somewhere like Falmer.

It was a very dark time whichever option we ended up with at the time, but at the immediate time of Archers take over, was he seen as an asset stripper or saviour? was he seen as a bad owner not to be trusted or someone to be welcomed (he was a money man brought in by Stanley to help the club pay it's debts) - What he turned into was unforeseen at the time and it was only came to light later into his time at the club.

The potential owner for Bolton didn't destroy Watford. Bolton are crippled by debt and have a very bleak future but who knows, this new owner could start to turn things around or keep the club afloat until their next version of Tony Bloom comes along, saving their club for future generations to enjoy watching and supporting

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

If the alternative was Bill Archer and all the stuff that went after than or absolutely no other alternative as an owner (including ruling out fans taking ownership, etc) and the club being wound up - meaning we'd lose the club and we wouldn't currently be playing Premier League football at the Amex with an owner who has put millions of their own money in - what would you think was the better of the 2 evils (Archer taking over when he did or having no club?)

If we had gone out of business, there may well have been a phoenix club, but it doesn't mean we'd have escaped non league by now, or have a ground any better than when we were renting Withdean at best, and we certainly would have struggled to convince any councils and the Government to build a new ground at somewhere like Falmer.

It was a very dark time whichever option we ended up with at the time, but at the immediate time of Archers take over, was he seen as an asset stripper or saviour? was he seen as a bad owner not to be trusted or someone to be welcomed (he was a money man brought in by Stanley to help the club pay it's debts) - What he turned into was unforeseen at the time and it was only came to light later into his time at the club.

The potential owner for Bolton didn't destroy Watford. Bolton are crippled by debt and have a very bleak future but who knows, this new owner could start to turn things around or keep the club afloat until their next version of Tony Bloom comes along, saving their club for future generations to enjoy watching and supporting

I understand what your are saying. But if a proven crook and ******** is willing to 'save' Bolton then it means he thinks he can, so surely someone else with better intent must be out there who thinks he or she can. I am not sure that Archer was the only option when he took over the club, or indeed (and more impoerantly) beforehand. My recollection was circumstances and naivety (and failure of due diligence and due process) let Archer in.

So on balance I don't think a pact with the Devil is ever a good idea. We were in the third tier when Archer took over, and it was him being hell bent of selling the Goldstone that was the main problem. Anyway hidndsight, eh?

 

[Guy Fawkes]

I understand what your are saying. But if a proven crook and ******** is willing to 'save' Bolton then it means he thinks he can, so surely someone else with better intent must be out there who thinks he or she can. I am not sure that Archer was the only option when he took over the club, or indeed (and more impoerantly) beforehand. My recollection was circumstances and naivety (and failure of due diligence and due process) let Archer in.

So on balance I don't think a pact with the Devil is ever a good idea. We were in the third tier when Archer took over, and it was him being hell bent of selling the Goldstone that was the main problem. Anyway hidndsight, eh?

Hence why i said ..."but what if the choice is between that owner and no club? "

Hopefully there is someone else out there to save them but the club is supposedly almost £200m in debt (although the current owner is said to be willing to write off 125m when the club is sold) This means that any buyer will have to take over debts of £75m even before they start to to invest any further funds into the club so.

Given their league position and how most clubs below the PL lose significant amounts of money, it means that it probably won't be an attractive proposition to anyone other then a real fan of the club and there are very few potential saviours with that sort of money to be able to save them so there is a chance that they may have no choice between only that one potential buyer or no club.

It's the grim reality of how clubs having so much debt and still overspending season after season and the consequences they could face should they ever find the person funding them is suddenly unable to or unwilling to continue to do so.

 

[perseus]

This.

Bolton overspent and over borrowed, which was entirely the fault of owners past. This can’t be attributed to the PL.

A shame for the staff and any creditors who’ll only receive x pence in the pound of debt.

I had the impression that Bolton borrowed against assets that Eddie Davies did not transfer to the new owners leaving a shortfall of about £100 million debts more than the value of Bolton Wanderers FC. That would only be OK if Bolton were in the EPL.

 

[studio150]

Not looking good, possible postponements or playing behind closed doors

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/more-worrying-bolton-news-emerges/

 

[Ernest]

They're bust, nobody wants to know, only a chancer who has previous bad form. No point throwing bad money after good anymore if nobody wants to know

 

[Stat Brother]

Out of the frying pan, the new owner may well be:-

Watford's Laurence Bassini

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurence_Bassini

 

[Badger]

Not looking good.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/48067603

Players threatening to boycott Saturday's match if the March salaries aren't paid by the end of today.

 

[Nottseagull]

No one wants to see a club just disappear and have to restart waydown the pyramid.

Unless it was Palace from 1999 or 2010.

 

[Stat Brother]

Not looking good.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/48067603

Players threatening to boycott Saturday's match if the March salaries aren't paid by the end of today.

[tweet]1121889984661938176[/tweet]

 

[Driver8]

[tweet]1121889984661938176[/tweet]

I think you can get kicked out the league for failing to fulfill a fixture.

 

[DavePage]

Oh dear

 

[Cheshire Cat]

As a result of these disappointing developments, the league has been forced to suspend Saturday's fixture," an EFL statement said.
"The club [Bolton] is now deemed to be guilty of misconduct and will be referred to an Independent Disciplinary Commission.
"The EFL Board will now consider the matter of determining whether the fixture will be played or not."

 

[Gwylan]

I think you can get kicked out the league for failing to fulfill a fixture.

I remember this happening before. I think it was Middlesboro who claimed they had too many injuries and didn't travel to a game. IIRC, the League awarded the game to the opponents and deducted three points. I'm a bit sketchy on the details as this was at least 25 years ago

EDIT: Just found the details. It was 22 years ago, so a bit more recent than I thought. Boro against Blackburn, Boro claimed to have only 17 fit players (including 3 goalies) and the PL thought that was no reason not to turn up.

Personally, I can't blame them for not wanting to travel to Blackburn ... but then, they're in Boro so Blackburn's a set up

 

[clapham_gull]

I remember this happening before. I think it was Middlesboro who claimed they had too many injuries and didn't travel to a game. IIRC, the League awarded the game to the opponents and deducted three points. I'm a bit sketchy on the details as this was at least 25 years ago

Yes I remember it. It was claimed to be flu.

Just googled 1997, under Bryan Robson. They could have put a team together but "couldn't do themselves justice".

 

[studio150]

Looks likely that their last game at Forest could also be postponed as the wages don't look like being paid anytime soon.
This could be the end of Bolton as a league club.

 

[LlcoolJ]

Looks likely that their last game at Forest could also be postponed as the wages don't look like being paid anytime soon.
This could be the end of Bolton as a league club.

This could happen to any club in The Championship. Unless someone is willing to put millions in, every club is screwed. Could have been Villa if people with huge pockets hadn't stepped in.

Only takes the benefactor to step away and the whole lot goes down.

Food for thought for the "It's more fun in the Championship anyway" brigade.

 

[Easy 10]

I remember this happening before. I think it was Middlesboro who claimed they had too many injuries and didn't travel to a game. IIRC, the League awarded the game to the opponents and deducted three points. I'm a bit sketchy on the details as this was at least 25 years ago

EDIT: Just found the details. It was 22 years ago, so a bit more recent than I thought. Boro against Blackburn, Boro claimed to have only 17 fit players (including 3 goalies) and the PL thought that was no reason not to turn up.

Personally, I can't blame them for not wanting to travel to Blackburn ... but then, they're in Boro so Blackburn's a set up

The irony being that Boro were relegated that season due to the points deduction. If they'd have just turned up and LOST (and got zero points), then they'd have been safe.

But really this is a totally different situation. Bolton are in complete financial meltdown, and this is new territory. I cannot recollect an occasion when a League club has failed to fulfil a fixture because its players are (quite justifiably) on strike through not being paid again. Absolutely shocking, given the fact that Bolton Wanderers are what I would consider a big club, with a rich history, decent fanbase and an excellent stadium.

I truly do feel for their fans. Even in our own darkest days, we ALWAYS fulfilled our fixtures (even if we had the odd one called off after the start). But we were a total mess, groundless and at the arse end of the entire League. The fact that the EFL have called off a Championship game is frankly astonishing. And waiting in the wings to take over BWFC, promising to pay wages, is this shifty weasel Laurence Bassini (formally "Bazini" - he changed his name after being declared bankrupt in 2007, but was then also declared bankrupt for a SECOND time in 2014). His 13 months in charge at Watford was described as being of "clown-like incompetance and financial impropriety" - he received a 3 year ban in 2013 from the EFL for breaching the use of parachute payments.

This isn't a Macclesfield, or a Stevenage. This is Bolton Wanderers. They are already fvcked, relegated, and the guy riding in to "save" them is a complete ****. I really do feel for those fans.

 

[GT49er]

The irony being that Boro were relegated that season due to the points deduction. If they'd have just turned up and LOST (and got zero points), then they'd have been safe.

But really this is a totally different situation. Bolton are in complete financial meltdown, and this is new territory. I cannot recollect an occasion when a League club has failed to fulfil a fixture because its players are (quite justifiably) on strike through not being paid again. Absolutely shocking, given the fact that Bolton Wanderers are what I would consider a big club, with a rich history, decent fanbase and an excellent stadium.

I truly do feel for their fans. Even in our own darkest days, we ALWAYS fulfilled our fixtures (even if we had the odd one called off after the start). But we were a total mess, groundless and at the arse end of the entire League. The fact that the EFL have called off a Championship game is frankly astonishing. And waiting in the wings to take over BWFC, promising to pay wages, is this shifty weasel Laurence Bassini (formally "Bazini" - he changed his name after being declared bankrupt in 2007, but was then also declared bankrupt for a SECOND time in 2014). His 13 months in charge at Watford was described as being of "clown-like incompetance and financial impropriety" - he received a 3 year ban in 2013 from the EFL for breaching the use of parachute payments.

This isn't a Macclesfield, or a Stevenage. This is Bolton Wanderers. They are already fvcked, relegated, and the guy riding in to "save" them is a complete ****. I really do feel for those fans.

Yes, a grand old club, lots of history. Really feel for their fans. Money is now so huge in football I don't know what can be done to help them. Things like our Fans' United are so long ago, and part of a different world - I don't think they would have the same effect now.

 

[Dick Head]