[Politics] Blimey! 23 Russian diplomats expelled!!!!

[Wrong-Direction]

Anyone watch panorama last night? Basically anyone who opposes Putin gets "dealt " with.

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[Jim D]

4. The victims were killed by a Russian neurotoxin (I am a pharmacologist, btw, so know a bit about such things).

I had thought that these toxins worked almost immediately, or certainly within minutes, but it appears that they were walking around and visiting places over a number of hours and leaving a trail of toxic dust behind them. Is this how they work? If so it could put an enormous number of people at risk if they're contaminated but don't show symptoms for some time. I assume that the policeman was affected because he got too close - even though it was a few hours since the attack.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I had thought that these toxins worked almost immediately, or certainly within minutes, but it appears that they were walking around and visiting places over a number of hours and leaving a trail of toxic dust behind them. Is this how they work? If so it could put an enormous number of people at risk if they're contaminated but don't show symptoms for some time. I assume that the policeman was affected because he got too close - even though it was a few hours since the attack.

There are countless numbers of drugs that act on nerves. They can block nerve electrical activity by blocking sodium channels (TTX), releasing neurotransmittor directly, blocking neurotransmitter synthesis etc etc. Some are absorbed slowly by mouth. Some have to be injected. Some absorb rapidly through the skin. So the usual factors (absorption, distribution, metabolism, excretion) will all modulate the onset, duration and severity of action, and te actions themselves vary widely. In the present case a drug was chosen that had a slow enough onset to make it hard to determine when and by whom the drug was administered, but effects sufficiently startling and dramatic for the cause of death (poisoning) to be obvious. Like in the polonium case. They definitely wanted everyone to know what they had done, and it amuses them greatly to go on saying 'what?' like someone who has just done a smelly and very audible fart in a lift.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Ah ok, I was referring to those who never fail to remind us at every opportunity (and on any thread about anything) which way they voted in the referendum.
My apologies if I misunderstood your post.

No worries. About 95% of my posts on here are light-hearted, or poking fun at a situation (I hesitate to say funny, because most probably think they aren't!). I couldn't really give a toss which way people voted, but do find the whole Brexit thing a bit tiresome from both sides.

 

[Jim D]

There are countless numbers of drugs that act on nerves. They can block nerve electrical activity by blocking sodium channels (TTX), releasing neurotransmittor directly, blocking neurotransmitter synthesis etc etc. Some are absorbed slowly by mouth. Some have to be injected. Some absorb rapidly through the skin. So the usual factors (absorption, distribution, metabolism, excretion) will all modulate the onset, duration and severity of action, and te actions themselves vary widely. In the present case a drug was chosen that had a slow enough onset to make it hard to determine when and by whom the drug was administered, but effects sufficiently startling and dramatic for the cause of death (poisoning) to be obvious. Like in the polonium case. They definitely wanted everyone to know what they had done, and it amuses them greatly to go on saying 'what?' like someone who has just done a smelly and very audible fart in a lift.

Thanks, I can understand that, but if you're making a 'military grade' toxin wouldn't you want it to work immediately to disable your enemy and stop them doing damage to you?

 

[Eeyore]

Unlike a certain political campaigner of the right, who has crossed my line too many times to warrant further correspondance, I am not on NSC to seek to secure a Tory hegemony. That said, I agree with the annoying Tory apparatchik in that the recent attempted murders are very certainly the work of official Russia. The evidence is circumstantial but:

1. The victims are traitors in the eyes of the Russian leadership.
2. The Russian leadership has stated such.
3. The Russian leadership has declared publicly that Russia will obtain retribution.
4. The victims were killed by a Russian neurotoxin (I am a pharmacologist, btw, so know a bit about such things).
5. The Russians have not hotly denied their involvement. They have mockingy done so.
6. Nobody else has claimed responsibility.
7. Nobody else is suspected. Not actually, not by anyone with a credible justification.

Consequently, Jezza's circumspection has been rightly mocked. It is as transparently pathetic and deluded as Thatcher's fawning over Pinochet, and extreme reluctance to send a ship to the Falklands till it was almost too late. Bad judgement, nostalgia for the 'old times' and knee jerk tribal stupidity are not the property of just one doctrine.

Given that I regard Putin as particularly dangerous to us (and others) while Pinochet was largely a symbolic pin up for blind-minded right wingers (torturing and killing mostly only his own countrymen), I am especially disdainful of comrade corbyn under the present circumstances. He could easily have condemned Putin while crossing his fingers, veinights, FFS. What does he gain by not going 'all in' on the red? Given that he is leader of the opposition, it won't be him having to deal with the declaration of culpability. The more I think about it, the more disdainful I feel.

Interesting take from the Irish Times:

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/...pal-poisoning-1.3425736#.Wqo0lKWMqMc.facebook

 

[beorhthelm]

Thanks, I can understand that, but if you're making a 'military grade' toxin wouldn't you want it to work immediately to disable your enemy and stop them doing damage to you?

not necessarily, there is the warfare strategy of tieing up logisitcs and support of your enemy. having hundreds, thousands of patients to be moved and treated may have more impact on fighting ability than simply killing them. this is one reason why they are banned.

 

[vegster]

not necessarily, there is the warfare strategy of tieing up logisitcs and support of your enemy. having hundreds, thousands of patients to be moved and treated may have more impact on fighting ability than simply killing them. this is one reason why they are banned.

Precisely, it debilitates a nations ability to fight and hugely saps morale.

 

[Withdean]

Watch for England to have extra “staff” from Mi5....

 

[rool]

Interesting take from the Irish Times:

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/...pal-poisoning-1.3425736#.Wqo0lKWMqMc.facebook

It's so unlike the Irish media to have negative things to say against the British.
I've stopped watching or listening to any Irish tv or radio over here because the only things reported about Britain are of a negative nature.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Thanks, I can understand that, but if you're making a 'military grade' toxin wouldn't you want it to work immediately to disable your enemy and stop them doing damage to you?

This was an assassination. The assassins presumably planned to not be on the scene when the toxin kicked in. I would be interested to learn how it was administered. It clearly affected one of the people who found them so my guess is it is skin absorbable. Traces were found at the restaurant so it has a slow onset (they were found later in a park) but not large amounts so it wasn't squirted onto the hot towels or napkins....unless the person who did it then took the napkins or towels before the table was cleared. That would work....

 

[alfredmizen]

not necessarily, there is the warfare strategy of tieing up logisitcs and support of your enemy. having hundreds, thousands of patients to be moved and treated may have more impact on fighting ability than simply killing them. this is one reason why they are banned.

And also why we switched from the SLR at 7.62mm to the sa 80 at 5.56mm, the slr would stop an elephant , the sa 80 wass more likely to totally disable and wound , sapping the enemies morale etc

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

not necessarily, there is the warfare strategy of tieing up logisitcs and support of your enemy. having hundreds, thousands of patients to be moved and treated may have more impact on fighting ability than simply killing them. this is one reason why they are banned.

If they wanted to damage our health services and logistics (if this is what you mean) they would have put something in the water, or let off a gas (as happened in Japan some years ago). This was a targetted assassination. It was not intended to cause widespread damage to other humans (albeit they weren't all that bothered about that).

 

[AmexRuislip]

And also why we switched from the SLR at 7.62mm to the sa 80 at 5.56mm, the slr would stop an elephant , the sa 80 wass more likely to totally disable and wound , sapping the enemies morale etc

Whenever I used to do range practice before guard duty, I'll always a get a small bruising on my cheek, from the kick back.
Amazing times.
BTW would stop more than one elephant

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Interesting take from the Irish Times:

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/...pal-poisoning-1.3425736#.Wqo0lKWMqMc.facebook

The article raises the baseless possibility that an unnamed oligarch (although they do name Abramovic!) was responsible. But the headline says it was unlikely to be Putin, without any explanation other than 'why would he?'. Well the reasons why are pretty clear - one of which being that he actually threatened to do so. FFS. Perhaps Corbyn is getting all his Intelligence briefs from the Irish press.

 

[alfredmizen]

If they wanted to damage our health services and logistics (if this is what you mean) they would have put something in the water, or let off a gas (as happened in Japan some years ago). This was a targetted assassination. It was not intended to cause widespread damage to other humans (albeit they weren't all that bothered about that).

harry , he is/was talking about wartime strategies , better to have hundreds of thousands of badly injured casualties than hundreds of thousands of corpses who have to be simply buried.

 

[alfredmizen]

[duplicate post

 

[alfredmizen]

Whenever I used to do range practice before guard duty, I'll always a get a small bruising on my cheek, from the kick back.
Amazing times.
BTW would stop more than one elephant

you were an engineer werent you mate ? not in the SHORT range desert group ?(thats what the army call the ref regimennt after iraq/afghan)

 

[AmexRuislip]

you were an engineer werent you mate ? not in the SHORT range desert group ?(thats what the army call the ref regimennt after iraq/afghan)

View attachment 95171

No not RAF Regiment, I have a brain, just a lowly driver I'm afraid

 

[Ernest]

If they wanted to damage our health services and logistics (if this is what you mean) they would have put something in the water, or let off a gas (as happened in Japan some years ago). This was a targetted assassination. It was not intended to cause widespread damage to other humans (albeit they weren't all that bothered about that).

Except there is no proof it was and if it was why aren’t they dead if the nerve agent is so deadly