Black managers...where are they?

[Pavilionaire]

Black players have been around in significant numbers in the game since the late 80s. Those players that broke through in that era will only be in their early 40s now, therefore only just coming into the manager marketplace. The likes of Hughton and John Barnes were some of the earliest successful black players, while the likes of Ince and Chris Powell represent more of what is likely to come.

I think there will be far more black managers in the next 5-10 years, simply because there will be far more black ex-footballers then than now.

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

If Ryan Giggs goes into management will he qualify as a black manager?

Yes, the Welsh are 'the niggers of the world' after all.

 

[theacademic]

thanks for these comments guys and a special thanks to those who have completed the 2-minute survey.

 

[tedebear]

I suggest you don't watch Wigan then next season when they play us in the Championship.

Not sure why Wigan would need 7 managers all dressed in uniform? Unless you've mistaken players for managers - after all thats what this thread is about?

Do you look to find fault in every post on NSC or just mine?

 

[8ace]

Australians are all racist.
Some of them work quite hard given the right direction but you really don't want one of them running things.

 

[El Presidente]

Not sure why Wigan would need 7 managers all dressed in uniform? Unless you've mistaken players for managers - after all thats what this thread is about?

I agree that the thread is about managers, which is why I was confused when you said that football was a white man's game.

Do you look to find fault in every post on NSC or just mine?

I'm not trying to find fault, just querying your original comment.

 

[El Presidente]

The survey isn't very good - the questions are leading, and they are also asking for peoples opinions on things they will know little or nothing about, so the answers are inevitably going to be ill-informed, prejudiced, or merely speculation.

And Question 3 is sexist.

Have to agree with that, the survey gave the impression of being rushed, and not subject to peer scrutiny before publication.

 

[Castello]

Listen to you all stirring yourself into a righteous wrath because someone suggested that racism existed in football. And in true NSC tradition rather than base your views on facts, ignorance of the true issue reigns. So to assist in your vitriol, I thought I'd inject some considered facts,

In a 2004 survey by the Commission for Racial Equality entitled Racial Equality in football it was estinated about 20.3% of players were black or black British; 4.1% were mixed race, 0.4% were Asian, 0.7% Chinese or other, and 74.5% white.

Football Unites, Racism Divides Frequently asked questions

By these figures it would mean that for true proportionality to exist 18 of the 92 managers should be black. I personally dont think there have been 18 black managers in the english professional leagues in total, never mind at any one time.

It was suggested that it would take 20 years for these figures to feed through into actual posts. By my memory in 1991 there werent many fewer black players, so they should be feeding through by now. I do however remember Ron Noades spouting similarly ignorant and uninformed views about black players suggesting they were too unintelligent to play certain roles or be managers at about this time. Seems some of you have something in common with a former Crystal Palace Chairman.

The view expressed by the poster isnt a new opinion, Ive been aware of it for many years and indeed there is a Observer article from October 2010 about the subject.

The lack of black football managers is a problem that won't go away | Football | The Observer .

Now im not suggesting what causes this issue just that it exists. What i do think leads to its existence is the refusal to discuss the matter in an informed and intelligent manner. It took me about 15 minutes of google searching to get the evidence presented in my post. Doesnt seem a big effort to make in order to present a reasoned argument.

 

[Brovion]

Listen to you all stirring yourself into a righteous wrath because someone suggested that racism existed in football. And in true NSC tradition rather than base your views on facts, ignorance of the true issue reigns. So to assist in your vitriol, I thought I'd inject some considered facts,

I'm sorry but that sentence is a load of sanctimonious bollocks as is a lot of your post. You are NOT the only one who has given the subject some thought, but 'in true NSC tradition' you think you are.There are admittedly a couple of ill-informed comments on this thread (as you'd expect given that there are a few ill-informed people on NSC) but others have been trying to analyse the problem. You may like to reconsider your facile assumption that as 20.3% of the players are black it follows that 20.3% of the managers should be black. There were no black players when Alex Ferguson was a player and a fair proportion of the current 20.3% may well become managers - but in their own countries (Not everybody playing football in England is English as I'm sure you're aware).

I think the only 'vitriol' has been directed at the person who did the survey who has tried to get us to sum up the complex problem with a couple of simple questions.

 

[Brovion]

By my memory in 1991 there werent many fewer black players, so they should be feeding through by now. I do however remember Ron Noades spouting similarly ignorant and uninformed views about black players suggesting they were too unintelligent to play certain roles or be managers at about this time. Seems some of you have something in common with a former Crystal Palace Chairman.

Sorry, another point. Your memory is wrong. There were a LOT fewer black players twenty years ago, if for no other reason because there were very few African nationals playing football in England twenty years ago. The proliferation of black players now proves that most, if not all, chairmen/women also think Noades was wrong. (And even at the time his views weren't indicative of British chairmen, it's like a hearing a Jim Davidson or Bernard Manning joke and saying all British comedians are racist).

A worse example of racism from the early 1990s was that when Graham Taylor took over from Bobby Robson he was approached by two FA officials who told him 'not to pick too many black players'. One or two was ok, but the England team should be 'overwhelmingly white'. Even when Venables took over and didn't pick Andy Cole there were mutterings in the press that he'd been overlooked for 'other reasons'.

 

[El Presidente]

Listen to you all

By saying 'all' isn't that a sweeping generalisation, or put it another way, a form of bigotry against those who post on NSC?

 

[Scampi]

I think you only need to look at some of the responses on here to understand why there are so few black managers.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

The managerial pool in this country is pretty slim, and something of a merry go round anyway, so perhaps it's a difficult one for newcomers to get on, whatever their ethnicity. How many crap- or at best, average- managers keep getting jobs, no matter how many times they fail? Someone like Mick Wadsworth, who has never taken a team to the Premier League, or even the Championship I don't think, is just an emergency rent-a-boss for clubs around the North of England. One success in your career seems to grant even the worst managers a lifetime of positions at low level clubs. The only time a real newcomer seems to get in on the act is if he's promoted from within a club he's already working at, and thus already has a foot on the ladder (or if he's a big name from the upper echelons of the game a la Roy Keane or-ironically- Paul Ince).

So if you're a manager at a non league club, black or white, the chances of you being taken on by a league club aren't that great anyway.

 

[Castello]

I'm sorry but that sentence is a load of sanctimonious bollocks as is a lot of your post. You are NOT the only one who has given the subject some thought, but 'in true NSC tradition' you think you are.There are admittedly a couple of ill-informed comments on this thread (as you'd expect given that there are a few ill-informed people on NSC) but others have been trying to analyse the problem. You may like to reconsider your facile assumption that as 20.3% of the players are black it follows that 20.3% of the managers should be black. There were no black players when Alex Ferguson was a player and a fair proportion of the current 20.3% may well become managers - but in their own countries (Not everybody playing football in England is English as I'm sure you're aware).

I think the only 'vitriol' has been directed at the person who did the survey who has tried to get us to sum up the complex problem with a couple of simple questions.

What I find so disappointing is that rather than consider the evidence that 20% of black players have produced just 2% of managers is a problem, you see my admittedly sanctimonious tone as worthy of two wordy and angry responses. If you think me being sanctimonious on a football forum is worthy of more of your anger than the fact that racism is alive and living in football, I suggest you check what you're really thinking. I'll readily admit I was over generalising, but after reading 3 pages of posts where only one post (other than the original) really considered there may be a problem,I started to think no one gave a shit about the issue. And perhaps that is why we have the issue in the firstplace.

I think you only need to look at some of the responses on here to understand why there are so few black managers.

This

 

[Billy the Fish]

What I find so disappointing is that rather than consider the evidence that 20% of black players have produced just 2% of managers is a problem,

But life doesn't work like that, the world isn't a mechanical system of exact percentages. The fact that's been stated on this thread multiple times is that managers today are a product of football 20 years ago (amongst hundreds of other factors). Come back in 2031 and if there aren't a higher % of black managers as a result of all the black footballers playing today then I'll say you've got a point.

you see my admittedly sanctimonious tone as worthy of two wordy and angry responses. If you think me being sanctimonious on a football forum is worthy of more of your anger than the fact that racism is alive and living in football, I suggest you check what you're really thinking.

Jesus wept

I'll readily admit I was over generalising, but after reading 3 pages of posts where only one post (other than the original) really considered there may be a problem,I started to think no one gave a shit about the issue. And perhaps that is why we have the issue in the firstplace.

Perhaps only one person doesn't have the intellect to join in with the perfectly reasonable debate on the thread. The majority of posters are able to look at the bigger picture rather than focus on one single statistic

 

[Castello]

But life doesn't work like that, the world isn't a mechanical system of exact percentages. The fact that's been stated on this thread multiple times is that managers today are a product of football 20 years ago (amongst hundreds of other factors). Come back in 2031 and if there aren't a higher % of black managers as a result of all the black footballers playing today then I'll say you've got a point.


Jesus wept



Perhaps only one person doesn't have the intellect to join in with the perfectly reasonable debate on the thread. The majority of posters are able to look at the bigger picture rather than focus on one single statistic

I dont propose to continue trying to get the blind to see, but i do find it hard to uhderstand why people seem to unwilling to consider what others are experiencing, Or maybe I dont,

remember Chris Ramsey?

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/david-conn-is-football-institutionally-racist-if-not-why-are-there-so-few-black-managers-683510.html

maybe you should explain to him his experiences are just a statistical quirk.

 

[Brovion]

What I find so disappointing is that rather than consider the evidence that 20% of black players have produced just 2% of managers is a problem, you see my admittedly sanctimonious tone as worthy of two wordy and angry responses. If you think me being sanctimonious on a football forum is worthy of more of your anger than the fact that racism is alive and living in football, I suggest you check what you're really thinking. I'll readily admit I was over generalising, but after reading 3 pages of posts where only one post (other than the original) really considered there may be a problem,I started to think no one gave a shit about the issue. And perhaps that is why we have the issue in the firstplace.

I was pissed off with you because your post gave the impression that you and you alone recognised there was a problem and that the rest of us were a load of antediluvian throwbacks refusing to acknowledge the facts. The question "Is British football racist?" cannot be answered with a simple yes or no. At least you admit you were over-generalising

 

[theacademic]

Many thanks to Castello et al. for a fascinating thread and a special thanks to those who gave 2 minutes of their time to complete the quick survey, it is much appreciated.