Black Friday Massacre

[Guy Fawkes]

Read Slowly:

My point is that while US folk are enjoying thanksgiving and giving a day of shopping a name the reason they can enjoy such excess is due to the earlier slaughter of First Nation tribes.

Repeat until understood.

How are the two linked? - would the US folk have been wiped out completely or that their future would have been very different if the massacre hadn't occured?.... I doubt it would have been and the black friday sales would probably still have occured and they are in no way connected. It is purely coincidencidental that the two dates co-inside this year and they won't next year

The fact that the Black Friday sales date isn't always the same and only rarely falls on the 29th November is being conveniently overlooked and your original post is making out that the day has been marked every year since and the US citizens are just being heartless because it has evolved into a commercial venture, much like Christmas where the original meaning has been lost over time which isn't even remotely close to the truth.

what it Black Friday Black Friday is the Friday following Thanksgiving Day in the United States, often regarded as the beginning of the Christmas shopping season. In recent years, most major retailers have opened extremely early and offered promotional sales to kick off the holiday shopping season, similar to Boxing Day sales in many Commonwealth Nations. Black Friday is not a federal holiday, but California and some other states observe "The Day After Thanksgiving" as a holiday for state government employees, sometimes in lieu of another federal holiday such as Columbus Day.[1] Many non-retail employees and schools have both Thanksgiving and the day after off, followed by a weekend, thereby increasing the number of potential shoppers. It has routinely been the busiest shopping day of the year since 2005,[2] although news reports, which at that time were inaccurate,[3] have described it as the busiest shopping day of the year for a much longer period of time.[4]

The day's name originated in Philadelphia, where it originally was used to describe the heavy and disruptive pedestrian and vehicle traffic which would occur on the day after Thanksgiving.[5][6] Use of the term started before 1961 and began to see broader use outside Philadelphia around 1975. Later an alternative explanation was made: that retailers traditionally operated at a financial loss ("in the red") from January through November, and "Black Friday" indicates the point at which retailers begin to turn a profit, or "in the black".[5][7] For large retail chains like Walmart, their net income is positive starting from January 1, and Black Friday can boost their year to date net profit from $14 billion to $19 billion.[citation needed]

For many years, it was common for retailers to open at 6:00 a.m., but in the late 2000s many had crept to 5:00 or even 4:00. This was taken to a new extreme in 2011, when several retailers (including Target, Kohl's, Macy's, Best Buy, and Bealls[8]) opened at midnight for the first time.[9] In 2012, Walmart and several other retailers announced that they would open most of their stores at 8:00 p.m. on Thanksgiving Day (except in states where opening on Thanksgiving is prohibited due to blue laws, such as Massachusetts where they still opened around midnight),[10] prompting calls for a walkout among some workers.[11] Black Friday shopping is known for attracting aggressive crowds, with annual reports of assaults, shootings, and throngs of people trampling on other shoppers in an attempt to get the best deal on a product before supplies run out.[12]

 

[Guy Fawkes]

why the f#@k do we get this Black Friday bullshit but not the Thankgiving feast?
I would have planned to boycott it but thanks to the energy suppliers' greed I have no money spare to stuff into retailers' pockets.

My guess would be to do with online shopping, they have had a black friday sale on Amazon for a while now and i guess UK retailers are starting to respond with their own version if fear of losing custom

 

[MissGull]

It is simply us copying the American version of Black Friday. Today being their version of our Boxing Day, over in the USA. The 'black' part is simply a credit reference. 'Profits in the black'

 

[HawkTheSeagull]

It is simply us copying the American version of Black Friday. Today being their version of our Boxing Day, over in the USA. The 'black' part is simply a credit reference. 'Profits in the black'

One of the reasons its called Black Friday - yes. It takes businesses from the Red to the Black.

 

[Nibble]

How are the two linked? - would the US folk have been wiped out completely or that their future would have been very different if the massacre hadn't occured?.... I doubt it would have been and the black friday sales would probably still have occured and they are in no way connected. It is purely coincidencidental that the two dates co-inside this year and they won't next year

The fact that the Black Friday sales date isn't always the same and only rarely falls on the 29th November is being conveniently overlooked and your original post is making out that the day has been marked every year since and the US citizens are just being heartless because it has evolved into a commercial venture, much like Christmas where the original meaning has been lost over time which isn't even remotely close to the truth.

Incorrect. I have clearly stated that this year is a coincidence. I also never stated that it changed the course of history. What I maintain however is that they are linked. Not directly, historically linked but I find it interesting what took place on the 29th that year and what is taking place on the 29th this year. I find the comparison interesting. I called the thread Black Friday Massacre not because I in any way believe the massacre in 1864 somehow lead to a shopping holiday as a direct a link as you are trying to foist on me but to illustrate a link of an entirely different sort, something slightly more abstract.

Yes,I stand by the idea that because of slaughter like the one witnessed in 1864 some US citizens of today can enjoy immense wealth. There is the only direct link I outline.

I'm sorry if the facts of my thread are inconvenient to YOU or you don't garee with them. I stand by my post. I think some of you are getting confused and thinking I am drawing some direct historical link here, I categorically am not.

 

[MissGull]

So many bargains to be had, whys everyone getting so upset about it? I don't understand.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Incorrect. I have clearly stated that this year is a coincidence. I also never stated that it changed the course of history. What I maintain however is that they are linked. Not directly, historically linked but I find it interesting what took place on the 29th that year and what is taking place on the 29th this year. I find the comparison interesting. I called the thread Black Friday Massacre not because I in any way believe the massacre in 1864 somehow lead to a shopping holiday but to illustrate a link of an entirely different sort, something slightly more abstract.

I'm sorry if the facts of my thread are inconvenient to YOU or you don't garee with them. I stand by my post. I think some of you are getting confused and thinking I am drawing some direct historical link here, I categorically am not.

It's the way you have tried to make a mountain out of a molehill that is amusing to me. The massacre has never been described as the black friday massacre (only by you - misleading and not a fact from you.) and the way you are trying to imply that American's are being heartless by going shopping on "black friday massacre day"

Origin of the term

"Black Friday" as a term has been used in multiple contexts, going back to the 19th century, where in the United States it was associated with a financial crisis of 1869. The earliest known invocation of "Black Friday" to refer to shopping on the day after Thanksgiving was made in a public relations newsletter from 1961 that is clear on the negative implications of the name and its origin in Philadelphia:

For downtown merchants throughout the nation, the biggest shopping days normally are the two following Thanksgiving Day. Resulting traffic jams are an irksome problem to the police and, in Philadelphia, it became customary for officers to refer to the post-Thanksgiving days as Black Friday and Black Saturday. Hardly a stimulus for good business, the problem was discussed by the merchants with their Deputy City Representative, Abe S. Rosen, one of the country's most experienced municipal PR executives. He recommended adoption of a positive approach which would convert Black Friday and Black Saturday to Big Friday and Big Saturday.[23]

The attempt to rename Black Friday was unsuccessful, and its continued use is shown in a 1966 publication on the day's significance in Philadelphia:

JANUARY 1966 – "Black Friday" is the name which the Philadelphia Police Department has given to the Friday following Thanksgiving Day. It is not a term of endearment to them. "Black Friday" officially opens the Christmas shopping season in Center City, and it usually brings massive traffic jams and over-crowded sidewalks as the downtown stores are mobbed from opening to closing.[6]

The term "Black Friday" began to get wider exposure around 1975, as shown by two newspaper articles from November 29, 1975, both datelined Philadelphia. The first reference is in an article entitled "Army vs. Navy: A Dimming Splendor", in The New York Times:

Philadelphia police and bus drivers call it "Black Friday" – that day each year between Thanksgiving Day and the Army–Navy Game. It is the busiest shopping and traffic day of the year in the Bicentennial City as the Christmas list is checked off and the Eastern college football season nears conclusion.

The derivation is also clear in an Associated Press article entitled "Folks on Buying Spree Despite Down Economy", which ran in Pennsylvania's Titusville Herald on the same day:

Store aisles were jammed. Escalators were nonstop people. It was the first day of the Christmas shopping season and despite the economy, folks here went on a buying spree... "That's why the bus drivers and cab drivers call today 'Black Friday,'" a sales manager at Gimbels said as she watched a traffic cop trying to control a crowd of jaywalkers. "They think in terms of headaches it gives them."

The term's spread was gradual, however, and in 1985 the Philadelphia Inquirer reported that retailers in Cincinnati and Los Angeles were still unaware of the term.[24]

So the term isn't used for the massacre, the origins of the shopping day and ther origin of the name have nothing to do with the massacre and the date of the black friday shopping day are different every year because it moves around the calender a bit like some of our bank holidays do.

I fail to see the connection regardless of how many times you state it's a fact in your posts

 

[brighton_girl87]

So many bargains to be had, whys everyone getting so upset about it? I don't understand.

Exactly! My boyfriend just got a 32" tv from Asda for £99. You can't grumble about that!

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

Soldier Blue was a shocking film

 

[Nibble]

It's the way you have tried to make a mountain out of a molehill that is amusing to me. The massacre has never been described as the black friday massacre (only by you - misleading and not a fact from you.) and the way you are trying to imply that American's are being heartless by going shopping on "black friday massacre day"





So the term isn't used for the massacre, the origins of the shopping day and ther origin of the name have nothing to do with the massacre and the date of the black friday shopping day are different every year because it moves around the calender a bit like some of our bank holidays do.

I fail to see the connection regardless of how many times you state it's a fact in your posts

Oh dear. I never stated that the massacre was called The Black Friday Massacre. Not Once. I made a link due to the content of the thread. I pointed out quite categorically that it was NOT called that. I think it may be you making a mountain out of a molehill. I merely pointed out that I found it interetsing that on this year those two dates coincide and I find it interetsing it being so close to Thanksgiving given there's some shared history there. You fail to see the connection. Not my concern. I only stated I found it interesting I did not try and give you a history lesson or call for Thanksgiving to be banned, or birthday's or Christmas or any other irelevant date that has been plucked out of the air.

Here, in simple terms, is what I was expressing.

This year Thanksgiving and Black Friday fall just before and on the anniversary of the slaughter of a native American tribe by a US Militia.

Given that Thanksgiving is in some SMALL part a way to give thanks for the Natives help and that the wealth amassed by the US came in part from the resources they plundered from the land and the exploitation of Native Americans and indeed, from massacres such as the one in 1864, I find it interesting that the celebration of the wealth, such as shopping is paramount and a thought to how their country amassed such wealth is ignored completely, especially on a year when those dates coincide.

I do not call for the banning of this or any celebrations I just found the nature of this one interesting.

That's it.

 

[Nibble]

So the term isn't used for the massacre, the origins of the shopping day and ther origin of the name have nothing to do with the massacre and the date of the black friday shopping day are different every year because it moves around the calender a bit like some of our bank holidays do.

this was established in about the 2nd post genius.

 

[EDS]

Oh dear. I never stated that the massacre was called The Black Friday Massacre. Not Once.

YOU CALLED THE THREAD THE FECKING BLACK FRIDAY MASSACRE, it is interesting you are an actor, as you are acting like a ****

 

[vegster]

Interesting post by Nibble, I must admit to not knowing about the Sandy Creek massacre. I'm sure there are other similar episodes big and small that were inflicted on the native Indians.

Interesting to see though that the same mindset seems to be in place nearly 150 years later with the drone strikes and " Extractions" committed by US forces with the full authority of Barack Obama, Nobel Peace Prize winner.

As they say, " The more things change, the more they stay the same. "

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2532528/

 

[Nibble]

YOU CALLED THE THREAD THE FECKING BLACK FRIDAY MASSACRE, it is interesting you are an actor, as you are acting like a ****

Right. So you think, that I believe the Sand Creek Massacre was called the Black Friday Massacre? That's what you are getting at? You couldn't possibly be that daft. Could you?

For clarity, seeing as you're not very bright: it was a deliberate mixing of the two events, for want of a better word, for the purposes of a thread title. I would have imagined most on here would understood that.

I think you need to get over the thread title, which you clearly don't grasp either in concept or actuality and at least try to understand the point I was making with this thread, then you may have a shot at understanding the title. I'll be over here, on the edge of my seat!

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Incorrect. I have clearly stated that this year is a coincidence. I also never stated that it changed the course of history. What I maintain however is that they are linked. Not directly, historically linked but I find it interesting what took place on the 29th that year and what is taking place on the 29th this year. I find the comparison interesting. I called the thread Black Friday Massacre not because I in any way believe the massacre in 1864 somehow lead to a shopping holiday as a direct a link as you are trying to foist on me but to illustrate a link of an entirely different sort, something slightly more abstract.

Yes,I stand by the idea that because of slaughter like the one witnessed in 1864 some US citizens of today can enjoy immense wealth. There is the only direct link I outline.

I'm sorry if the facts of my thread are inconvenient to YOU or you don't garee with them. I stand by my post. I think some of you are getting confused and thinking I am drawing some direct historical link here, I categorically am not.

However you said..

Read Slowly:

My point is that while US folk are enjoying thanksgiving and giving a day of shopping a name the reason they can enjoy such excess is due to the earlier slaughter of First Nation tribes.

Repeat until understood.

You linking them because you are wondering how they can go shopping and lead an excessive lifestyle if it wasn't for this massacre. However the two events are not linked and never have been.

My point wasn't that it was named Black Friday. I didn't claim this is where the term Black Friday came from. My point was that a day after Thanksgiving this massacre occurred and instead of any kind of recognition from the people who have benefited from the demise, exploitation and slaughter of the First Nation they decide to go shopping.

I really hope this ridiculous "tradition" doesn't take a hold over here.

You also claim that this massacre occured the day after thanksgiving, factually incorrect as you have already contradicted this in an earlier post where you state that you could go back to the 13th century in it's history. Either that or it could also be interpreted as the day after the 1st thanksgiving feast in the US which again, it wasn't and is out by a couple of hundred years.

Something imprtant you failed to mention in your thread called Black Friday Massacre is that the day of the Sand Creek Massacre wasn't even a Friday. The massacre occured on November 29, 1864

Day Of The Week - November 29, 1864 is the 334th day of the year 1864 in the Gregorian calendar. There are 32 days remaining until the end of this year. The day of the week is Tuesday. http://www.dayoftheweek.org/?m=November&d=29&y=1864&go=Go

Why would the Americans mark this event as Black Friday or even the Black Friday Massacre ?? It just seems you are having a pop at the US folk and commercialism

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

17th March 2014 - 1st Anniversary of the Saint Patrick's Day Massacre

 

[Nibble]

However you said..


You linking them because you are wondering how they can go shopping and lead an excessive lifestyle if it wasn't for this massacre. However the two events are not linked and never have been.



You also claim that this massacre occured the day after thanksgiving, factually incorrect as you have already contradicted this in an earlier post where you state that you could go back to the 13th century in it's history. Either that or it could also be interpreted as the day after the 1st thanksgiving feast in the US which again, it wasn't and is out by a couple of hundred years.

Something imprtant you failed to mention in your thread called Black Friday Massacre is that the day of the Sand Creek Massacre wasn't even a Friday. The massacre occured on November 29, 1864



Why would the Americans mark this event as Black Friday or even the Black Friday Massacre ?? It just seems you are having a pop at the US folk and commercialism

Are you really this thick? I always took you for a parochial but intelligent man. The slaughter of Native Americans did DIRECTLY affect the US's current wealth. Of course it did.

I never ONCE stated they called the massacre Black sodding Friday. In my last post I explained the thread title for those a bit slow off the mark (that's you).

I claim that THIS YEAR the anniversary falls on the day after thanksgiving. I did not claim the event took place on the day after Thanksgiving.

You must be on a wind up because you couldn't possibly be this thick.

Anyway, sick of defending what is a perfectly logical thread to a couple of wally's who cannot grasp the basics of non-linear analysis. Please feel free to spend the rest of your day "discrediting" an opinion. Hells Bells and buckets of blood.

Read my posts properly before you post again.

 

[Nibble]

You also claim that this massacre occured the day after thanksgiving, factually incorrect as you have already contradicted this in an earlier post where you state that you could go back to the 13th century in it's history. Either that or it could also be interpreted as the day after the 1st thanksgiving feast in the US which again, it wasn't and is out by a couple of hundred years.

Something imprtant you failed to mention in your thread called Black Friday Massacre is that the day of the Sand Creek Massacre wasn't even a Friday. The massacre occured on November 29, 1864

No, I really didn't. This is just plain made up.

 

[KZNSeagull]

It just seems you are having a pop at the US folk and commercialism

There's nothing wrong with that!

 

[Questions]

Interesting post by Nibble, I must admit to not knowing about the Sandy Creek massacre. I'm sure there are other similar episodes big and small that were inflicted on the native Indians.

Interesting to see though that the same mindset seems to be in place nearly 150 years later with the drone strikes and " Extractions" committed by US forces with the full authority of Barack Obama, Nobel Peace Prize winner.

As they say, " The more things change, the more they stay the same. "

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2532528/

When the film Soldier Blue came out - although a fictional account - it was indeed a grim, brutal and inhuman chronicle of what had been a shameful part of U.S. history. Parallels were obviously drawn with the My Lai massacre a few years earlier. Injuns ? Vietnamese ? Afghans ? ..........insert.........

Like you say...." The more they stay the same"