Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊
Ben White
- Thread starter Bingo
- Start date
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Cowfold Seagull
Fan of the 17 bus
Yep, regular first team football is always a good thing.
Left Footer
Well-known member
good for him.
I am not too sure about these type of loans and if I was Tony Bloom I would be looking at these closely, first problem from the outside is where precisely is Ben White in the clubs pecking order, do they really feel that he has a future at the club, do they think he has no future but would like to engineer a permanent move away or just hedging their bets.
Frankly without that inside knowledge we cant be sure if loan moves for U23's to low league levels is a positive move for any young player, especially when currently BHA are paying £3m per year on its Academy.
To try and analyse whether these are good deals it only really becomes relevent if the club believe in example a) That they beleive he has a future at the club.
Then there is more to discuss at why a £3m annual budget Academy cannot deliver a better development environment for a young player ahead of a low level club which have inferior aspects at every single level of their club.
Frankly without that inside knowledge we cant be sure if loan moves for U23's to low league levels is a positive move for any young player, especially when currently BHA are paying £3m per year on its Academy.
To try and analyse whether these are good deals it only really becomes relevent if the club believe in example a) That they beleive he has a future at the club.
Then there is more to discuss at why a £3m annual budget Academy cannot deliver a better development environment for a young player ahead of a low level club which have inferior aspects at every single level of their club.
GreersElbow
New member
Implying that we want to keep hold of all our academy players. We can make a return by developing them then selling them...
Didn't do these players any harm playing in the lower leagues when young. David Beckham,Harry Kane,Lingard etc
Quite. I'm disappointed White's loan isn't a league or even two, higher, as he looked really classy when we saw him play, but the important thing is he gets a LOT of competitive matches. Whether such a loan is a development opportunity or a shop window, is down to the player.
I'd disagree with you on this one Hans. I think physicality is what is missing from his game and this might help him.
Does look comfortable on the ball though.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I had an indepth discussion this week with a respected development coach and I mentioned this to him too.
The Beckhams, Kanes etc muddy the waters, bizarrely if you ask a successful footballer, they nearly cite everything that has happened to him as 'helping' him achieve where he go to, whether that practice is perceive as good or bad, its wholly illogical.
There are more x,y and z's sitting in pubs or playing non league football citing the absurdity of taking them out of a first class environment and into a third class environment than any Beckhams and Kane's playing for England, it just nonsensical.
Its wholly down to the club where they currently see his furture, I know a bit about him and I liked him, released from Southampton I belive and has a good physicality, good pace looked slightly casual or classy depending how he played.
1. There are plenty of physical players in League One
2. Sending a classy ball playing centre back, to play 23 home matches on the worst pitch in our professional football system, seems a questionable choice. That pitch alone, could damage his confidence in his (correct) desire to play decent football. He'll likely end up 'getting rid' after a couple of bobble-induced calamities.
Da Man Clay
T'Blades
- Dec 16, 2004
- 16,286
Playing nothing more than U23 games isn't helpful either. It doesn't in anyway prepare them for the rigours of the professional game. There is a balance to be had somewhere - training with us during the week and playing games for the lower league club at the weekend maybe (which works if the club is part time and local). Playing full time league two and above football has to be better than doing the same things day in and day out here in a non-competitive arena.
pishhead
Well-known member
Players sink or swim when they go out on loan. They don't get the creature comforts that they enjoy here. Not to mention being around a group of blokes as opposed to kids and their mates.
It can also give them a glimpse into how their career can pan out if they don't perform and apply themselves.
It can also give them a glimpse into how their career can pan out if they don't perform and apply themselves.
I agree in part, but thats why I mentioned the £3m annual budget last season, that doesnt include the first team or building costs that was purely running costs of the kids up to U23's and somehow we then still use low level clubs to supposedly add another development element to our young players, its quite something.
Ultimately we cannot be sure when yougsters go out on loan whether it is just an effort to give that player game time when it cannot be offered here in the U23's, which is usually the death knell of that players association with the club or is it really an effort to give a young player something extra that the Academy cannot, which is alarming for the Academy structure.
There is a malaise within the Academy system, Newport, Dagenham or Worthing should not be delivering some necessary experience to our youngsters that such a vast and expensive Academy system cannot.
If I was Tony Bloom I would be demanding better value from our Academy structure however it is delivered and would not expect the need for low level loans.
Ninja Elephant
Doctor Elephant
- Feb 16, 2009
- 18,855
Patience, grasshopper. If Bloom was so keen to have the academy self finance (already!), I'm sure he'd have taken the £5million offer from Fulham for Lewis Dunk a couple of years ago.
Maybe we'll be a smaller scale version of Chelsea, pick up the loan fees, reduce the wage bill by loaning them out and eventually flog them on for a nice wedge. Tomas Kalas has signed a new 4 year deal at Chelsea and been loaned again, there's a fee each time and most of his wages will be covered by the loaning club. They're making good money on the players being loaned out, think of the fees they're getting each year for players like Abraham. It all adds up, and the academy pays for itself several times over.
Maybe we'll be a smaller scale version of Chelsea, pick up the loan fees, reduce the wage bill by loaning them out and eventually flog them on for a nice wedge. Tomas Kalas has signed a new 4 year deal at Chelsea and been loaned again, there's a fee each time and most of his wages will be covered by the loaning club. They're making good money on the players being loaned out, think of the fees they're getting each year for players like Abraham. It all adds up, and the academy pays for itself several times over.
Fair point on 2.
Perhaps on point 1, but you are more likely to get 'roughed up' in league 2. The top 8 or so in league 1 will knock it about a bit.
Alternatively, perhaps this was the only offer on the table, that the club deemed suitable.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
GreersElbow
New member
Possibly could be down to small terms, such as Newport could almost guarantee him a spot on the bench at a minimum. Unless there's a longer term plan, test him at league two - if he performs well, new contract and ship out to league 1, does well, sell - EZprofit.
Reality is, academies are nothing more than factories. We will obviously want to nurture those that we see as an asset to the first team and then utilise those that are an asset to our balance sheet.
Other than your own and quite frankly, daft assumptions - where is evidence that TB has not agreed to this plan?
'better value' is determined by the end product, profits from sale or first team use.
Again surely the coaches, nutritionlists, psychologists, sport scientists, doctors and physiotherepists might have the skill to create a exemplorary development environment that should negate those fears.
You are going off piste, my point was how Academys that spend £millions seem unable to create a development environment where a player might not need to go to a League 2 club before he can be considered as first team ready.