[Football] Ben White - Sings new FOUR year deal.

[Weststander]

I think I'm getting confused with the 12m we made the year before.

The Amex wouldn't be half empty next season if we went down. We averaged 25-28 thousand every Championship season once the Amex was completed, even Sami season, and season ticket sales have already been made for 20/21.

A misunderstanding, I’m talking about government covid-19 restrictions to those attending next season and therefore income.

Like you, I have faith that our support base is very strong.

 

[Albion Dan]

Ben White

We lost £22m last season, £27m before player sales.

TV income will drop by £65m as you say, commercial income falls for lower league football, plus the Amex may be empty then half empty next season. It really will be a £100m loss for Tony to subsidise, without player sales.

Half empty? If people are allowed to go it will be full. Especially if we are doing well. I really would expect wages to drop significantly and would expect many of the young prospects to come into the squad and get first team action. Our wages are far far lower than with Newcastle or Villas we’re.

 

[nwgull]

Half empty? If people are allowed to go it will be full. Especially if we are doing well. I really would expect wages to drop significantly and would expect many of the young prospects to come into the squad and get first team action. Our wages are far far lower than with Newcastle or Villas we’re.

I thought about this a bit more. Last season's income was a total of £143m, compared to around £30m (this is from memory) in our last Championship season in 16/17. Assuming we make similar non-broadcast turnover, the 1st season parachute payment would increase our Championship income to £75m, so a shortfall of 68m, which when you consider we made a loss of 25m in 19/20 points to a total loss of £93m so [MENTION=21158]Weststander[/MENTION] 's figures aren't that far off.

However, this assumes all players earn the same money and that we have no relegation clauses. It's been reported that Bloom and Barber have contingency plans for relegation so I'd imagine that they factored relegation clauses in to their wage deals. 18/19 accounts show that wages last year were almost 90m, which is about 3x what they were in 16/17!

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I thought about this a bit more. Last season's income was a total of £143m, compared to around £30m (this is from memory) in our last Championship season in 16/17. Assuming we make similar non-broadcast turnover, the 1st season parachute payment would increase our Championship income to £75m, so a shortfall of 68m, which when you consider we made a loss of 25m in 19/20 points to a total loss of £93m so [MENTION=21158]Weststander[/MENTION] 's figures aren't that far off.

However, this assumes all players earn the same money and that we have no relegation clauses. It's been reported that Bloom and Barber have contingency plans for relegation so I'd imagine that they factored relegation clauses in to their wage deals. 18/19 accounts show that wages last year were almost 90m, which is about 3x what they were in 16/17!

Last season's losses included compensation to Chris Hughton (and team) and Swansea. I believe it also included infrastructure spend.
The £22m loss should not be considered our standard operating costs.

It would be reasonable to expect several salaries to be reduced in a Championship season.
I'm not sure whether there was a staying up bonus in last year's salaries, but reasonable to assume that there may have been. .

 

[nwgull]

Last season's losses included compensation to Chris Hughton (and team) and Swansea. I believe it also included infrastructure spend.
The £22m loss should not be considered our standard operating costs.

It would be reasonable to expect several salaries to be reduced in a Championship season.
I'm not sure whether there was a staying up bonus in last year's salaries, but reasonable to assume that there may have been. .

All true, but it also didn't include amortisation of this season's acquisitions. Webster, Maupay and Trossard were 55m, so that's another 14m per season (assuming they were all on 4 year deals) to account for in this and next season's costs.

 

[Weststander]

Last season's losses included compensation to Chris Hughton (and team) and Swansea. I believe it also included infrastructure spend.
The £22m loss should not be considered our standard operating costs.

It would be reasonable to expect several salaries to be reduced in a Championship season.
I'm not sure whether there was a staying up bonus in last year's salaries, but reasonable to assume that there may have been. .

The £27m loss (pre player sales gains) did not include £7.6m of infrastructure spending. That's capitalised straight to the balance sheet in the usual manner.

Within the £27m loss, there's probably £2m in compensation to Swansea for appointing GP.

 

[Weststander]

Half empty? If people are allowed to go it will be full. Especially if we are doing well. I really would expect wages to drop significantly and would expect many of the young prospects to come into the squad and get first team action. Our wages are far far lower than with Newcastle or Villas we’re.

We're in agreement, I said in post #205 that our support will be strong wherever we are, imho.

I'm talking about the adverse effect on income from government enforced restrictions to crowds …. when will the best part of 31,000 be allowed back into the Amex for a single event?

 

[sparkie]

Yes, I am a little reluctant to put the hex on us by discussing the doomsday scenario this early, but clearly there would be player sales.

Dunk, Andone and Locadia should raise £55million+, and we have the agreed £10 million for Knockaert to come in as well on top of that. Percy Tau may raise a bit of cash too.

I'd hope that not many more big ticket sales were needed, although maybe a couple of players would also go on loan to the PL to lesson the wage bill.

The Andone fee has gone up in smoke. D'Oh !

So just Dunk, Locadia, Knockaert and potentially Tau, which could rake in potentially £60 million+, maybe.

Might not be enough, but it's close.

 

[Weststander]

The Andone fee has gone up in smoke. D'Oh !

So just Dunk, Locadia, Knockaert and potentially Tau, which could rake in potentially £60 million+, maybe.

Might not be enough, but it's close.

Propper £15m - as a Dutch international, he isn't going to play in the Championship.
White £20m

 

[sparkie]

Propper £15m - as a Dutch international, he isn't going to play in the Championship.
White £20m

Yes, the Andone injury hits our sums.

Although I wouldn't be surprised if we loaned Pröpper to Ajax for a year.

Big decision about White, but are Ostigard and Roberts better future bets ?

Let's hope we can throw the sums away, not needed in the end.

 

[Marshy]

Yes, the Andone injury hits our sums.

Although I wouldn't be surprised if we loaned Pröpper to Ajax for a year.

Big decision about White, but are Ostigard and Roberts better future bets ?

Let's hope we can throw the sums away, not needed in the end.

I just don't see White being sold. Far more likely in my opinion that Duffy and Balogun get moved on first.
Even Dunk before White if we need to raise cash and Dunk would be worth double White.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

The £27m loss (pre player sales gains) did not include £7.6m of infrastructure spending. That's capitalised straight to the balance sheet in the usual manner.

Within the £27m loss, there's probably £2m in compensation to Swansea for appointing GP.

I have faith in the club, that they have put in place contractual clauses that protect the club in case of relegation.
I can't believe Tony will leave a risk of a £100m shortfall in the event (likely) that we would be relegated.

That just isn't the way he rolls.

 

[Gabbiano]

There are a few players I would expect to want to leave if we were relegated.

Propper and Trossard are on the periphery of their National Team squads, which wouldn’t be helped by them playing in the Championship. Potentially Mac Allister too if he proves to be quality. Mooy jumped ship from Hudds after relegation, he might want to do the same again.

I think we have the depth to deal with these issues should they arise, and if not they are all saleable assets which would bring in enough money to buy replacements. But to expect to only lose one or two players were we to be relegated is unrealistic IMO. Players want to play at the best level they can and are not ultimately loyal to the club.

 

[Weststander]

There are a few players I would expect to want to leave if we were relegated.

Propper and Trossard are on the periphery of their National Team squads, which wouldn’t be helped by them playing in the Championship. Potentially Mac Allister too if he proves to be quality. Mooy jumped ship from Hudds after relegation, he might want to do the same again.

I think we have the depth to deal with these issues should they arise, and if not they are all saleable assets which would bring in enough money to buy replacements. But to expect to only lose one or two players were we to be relegated is unrealistic IMO. Players want to play at the best level they can and are not ultimately loyal to the club.

This.

Players in effect hold all the aces in the modern game, if they insist on moving to a top flight club elsewhere whilst mid contract, it usually happens.

It boils down to reaching agreement on the transfer fee.

 

[blue-shifted]

Propper £15m - as a Dutch international, he isn't going to play in the Championship.
White £20m

I think we need to be wary about looking at transfer fees in the same way post covid.

Any club who we would be selling to, is also going to have to be refunding season tickets and corporate hospitality and can be looking at hugely reduced TV income in the same way we are. That's before we start looking at how the owners other business interests have performed. Far fewer will have the liquidity and borrowing power to pay big transfer fees.

If we were relegated I can see some derisory offers being made, for the likes of Trossard and Propper and of course White. I can see the value being in holding on to those players and hoping for the virus to allow the football and wider economy to get back to normal before selling.

 

[blue-shifted]

I have faith in the club, that they have put in place contractual clauses that protect the club in case of relegation.
I can't believe Tony will leave a risk of a £100m shortfall in the event (likely) that we would be relegated.

That just isn't the way he rolls.

If he wants to sign football players, he probably hasn't got much choice.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

If he wants to sign football players, he probably hasn't got much choice.

I suspect this is a factor in why we don't sign established premier league players.

 

[Weststander]

If he wants to sign football players, he probably hasn't got much choice.

That’s exactly how Newcastle and Villa bought their promotions. They rolled the financial die and it came off, Villa only just!

 

[Stat Brother]

This ought to get us back on topic:-

https://www.teamtalk.com/news/ben-white-hopes-grow-leeds-liverpool-transfer-discussed


However, pundit Kevin Phillips reckons Liverpool look most likely to sign the 22-year-old. But it’s not entirely bad news for Marcelo Bielsa, with Phillips raising the prospect of another loan.

Phillips told Football Insider: “I see a scenario where he goes somewhere and gets loaned back to Leeds.

“He looks like he enjoys playing there. I do not think if he went to Liverpool that he would play straight away.

“A player that has played well all season but he could go to a Premier League club and not play.

 

[blue-shifted]

That’s exactly how Newcastle and Villa bought their promotions. They rolled the financial die and it came off, Villa only just!

I'm talking about relegation clauses.

So it's tough enough to get players to sign talented players in their young 20s for a relegation threatened club (which we always are before the start of any given season) without inserting clauses in their contracts to say that if we do go down, their wages will drop commensurately.

I don't know the details of any of our players contracts, but it's highly likely Tony will have to bear the risk of having high wage earners which you can't shift (probably like Andone) whilst only having a Championship income plus parachute payments.