[Football] Ben White and our Gareth

[aolstudios]

If that’s true, Holland must go

& the manager, who lied. Again

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Yes I saw SYFY episode where we won and Southgate put Maguire on the bench to play Ben but the episode about flat earth had better evidence and still looks round to me

Toto Schillaci was arguably Italy's 6th choice striker and ended up top goalscorer and World cup winner in 1990. It can happen. The balance of probability suggests it wouldn't have happened for BW but it definitely won't now if you refuse to go.

 

[aolstudios]

There's a difference between criticism and humiliation. Coaches are there to coach not browbeat professionals.
Ben White has had no problem with Michael Flynn, Darren Ferguson, Chris Hughton, Bielsa, Graham Potter nor Arteta, but some jumped up coach who has never managed above Crewe thinks he can humiliate him in a classroom.

This ^

 

[Thunder Bolt]

C’mon, I don’t like it but professional players get called out in front of the team all the time. I can’t remember who said it but someone said RDZ does it here. If you watch stuff like the Amazon documentary, Arteta is always shouting at them in the changing rooms.

It’s a different world from normal jobs. Someone mentioned not going away for months in a hotel with their boss, but going away with your boss and the team is expected. It wouldn’t be normal in any other job but it’s the absolute norm in football.

RDZ and Arteta are managers of professional clubs that pay player wages.

The national team don't. It is supposed to be for the honour of playing. It wasn't even Southgate but the coach. I suspect being away somewhere like Doha doesn't help when you are couped up in a hotel and training complex all the time.

Fans forget there is a mental health aspect to this. I know of a goalkeeper who came off the pitch, sat the dressing room and said I can't do this any more (and hadn't shipped loads of goals before anyone quips) He just couldn't stand the job any more.
I also know of a player who was on his own in a hotel room, and just decided to give up league football to play non league because it was better for his health.

Don't judge until you've been in their shoes.

Edit to add, I haven't read one criticism from Arsenal fans. They seem to be behind him.

 

[rebel51]

Well done Ben White. I totally get it.Fk the establishment etc.

 

[METALMICKY]

So would I but White had an opportunity to be part of a squad that has a favourites chance of winning something for once. If he'd either forced or made his way into the team via injuries or whatever he could have gone down as a legend. A genuine one, not the overused version we've got used to today. White obviously thinks differently but I'd put the bigger picture before some spat with a lad that puts the cones out.

Very much this! Have people seen how Arteta is on the touch line? How do you imagine he is in training if someone is not putting the effort in or is not focussed? Does it go like this " come on little Bensy just for me do it nicely this time and open those little earsy wearsies "? Like feck does he"

Now just maybe Holland lacks a little tact but this is football for gods sake. There has to be way more to this story otherwise White really needs to grow a back bone and be a lot less precious. Turning down the chance to play in a major tournament is just ridiculous and damages our chances when you consider he is the form player and can play at centre back too.


Come the Arsenal game I will be booing senselessly as I love a bit of Panto and any chance it might put him off.

 

[Littlemo]

There's a difference between criticism and humiliation. Coaches are there to coach not browbeat professionals.
Ben White has had no problem with Michael Flynn, Darren Ferguson, Chris Hughton, Bielsa, Graham Potter nor Arteta, but some jumped up coach who has never managed above Crewe thinks he can humiliate him in a classroom.

What he said honestly doesn't sound all that humiliating tbh.

I get that Holland was having a go and he sounds a bit snidey which I don’t think he should, but it’s hardly like a deeply personal attack or especially embarrassing thing to say that he’s not interested enough in football.

Especially in this context since it seems he was asked a tactical question he (and a couple others) couldn’t answer, was this stuff he was meant to know?

It all seems like a mountain out of a molehill tbh.

 

[BBassic]

C’mon, I don’t like it but professional players get called out in front of the team all the time. I can’t remember who said it but someone said RDZ does it here. If you watch stuff like the Amazon documentary, Arteta is always shouting at them in the changing rooms.

Which is fair enough if they're being barracked for putting in a terrible performance. That's part and parcel of the job.

But that isn't what happened here. According to that Tweet linked earlier :

Others were asked from different clubs and didn’t have the answers - when holland got to Ben white, Ben’s answer was he wasn’t sure. To which Holland replied of course you wouldn’t know you’re too worried about other things rather than football

Why didn't Holland also have a moan at the others who didn't know the answer to the question? White was singled out. He wasn't yelled at for not tracking his man at the back post or whatever; he was criticised and embarrassed in front of his colleagues for his "meh" attitude to football.

It was unprofessional.

 

[Insel affe]

Just goes to prove Southgate and his backroom staff are inept and yet have boundless talent at their disposal and keep falling short.
I cannot wait for the Euros to be over in the summer and he and they leave.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

What he said honestly doesn't sound all that humiliating tbh.

I get that Holland was having a go and he sounds a bit snidey which I don’t think he should, but it’s hardly like a deeply personal attack or especially embarrassing thing to say that he’s not interested enough in football.

Especially in this context since it seems he was asked a tactical question he (and a couple others) couldn’t answer, was this stuff he was meant to know?

It all seems like a mountain out of a molehill tbh.

It will look like that to you, but to Ben it wasn't. We don't know what happened in his personal life at the time. It was a snide dig at his personal life, and enough for another team mate to comment on it, taking Ben's side (Coady).
He's not the only one who doesn't watch football outside of their club. Bobby Zamora was just the same.

 

[Sarisbury Seagull]

Toto Schillaci was arguably Italy's 6th choice striker and ended up top goalscorer and World cup winner in 1990. It can happen. The balance of probability suggests it wouldn't have happened for BW but it definitely won't now if you refuse to go.

Sorry to be a pedant and I loved Schillachi in that tournament, he was brilliant but he wasn't a World Cup winner. Klinsmann, Matthaus, Brehme and co were.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Very much this! Have people seen how Arteta is on the touch line? How do you imagine he is in training if someone is not putting the effort in or is not focussed? Does it go like this " come on little Bensy just for me do it nicely this time and open those little earsy wearsies "? Like feck does he"

Now just maybe Holland lacks a little tact but this is football for gods sake. There has to be way more to this story otherwise White really needs to grow a back bone and be a lot less precious. Turning down the chance to play in a major tournament is just ridiculous and damages our chances when you consider he is the form player and can play at centre back too.


Come the Arsenal game I will be booing senselessly as I love a bit of Panto and any chance it might put him off.

You've put a lot of imagination into that post!

 

[Beanstalk]

What he said honestly doesn't sound all that humiliating tbh.

I get that Holland was having a go and he sounds a bit snidey which I don’t think he should, but it’s hardly like a deeply personal attack or especially embarrassing thing to say that he’s not interested enough in football.

Especially in this context since it seems he was asked a tactical question he (and a couple others) couldn’t answer, was this stuff he was meant to know?

It all seems like a mountain out of a molehill tbh.

Especially that the "not that into football" story was a quote that came straight out of White's mouth.

The important detail in the story I'd heard, that seems to be missing from the Tele piece, is that he really should've known the answer to the question. That all England players get set homework for each of the teams they'll be playing regardless of whether they're likely to start. Had he done the work, he would've known the answer.

It's all a bit naughty schoolboy being caught out by the mean teacher for the modern day tbh, and I don't think anyone comes across well in this. I also think the logical inference to where this story has come from may signal why it's being presented as "big mean Steve vs defenceless Benjamin". It's clearly not the full story. Maybe Southgate should've kept his conversation with Edu private.

 

[METALMICKY]

Which is fair enough if they're being barracked for putting in a terrible performance. That's part and parcel of the job.

But that isn't what happened here. According to that Tweet linked earlier :

Others were asked from different clubs and didn’t have the answers - when holland got to Ben white, Ben’s answer was he wasn’t sure. To which Holland replied of course you wouldn’t know you’re too worried about other things rather than football

Why didn't Holland also have a moan at the others who didn't know the answer to the question? White was singled out. He wasn't yelled at for not tracking his man at the back post or whatever; he was criticised and embarrassed in front of his colleagues for his "meh" attitude to football.

It was unprofessional.

But isn't that the precise point? If that's your job and you are effectively in the workplace is it acceptable to have a " meh " attitude?

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Sorry to be a pedant and I loved Schillachi in that tournament, he was brilliant but he wasn't a World Cup winner. Klinsmann, Matthaus, Brehme and co were.

Good point. I forgot they lost!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

But isn't that the precise point? If that's your job and you are effectively in the workplace is it acceptable to have a " meh " attitude?

Ben White's job is to play for Arsenal and there hasn't been a hint of him falling out with any of his managers, no matter what league he has played in. See post 138.

The England set up is completely different.

 

[METALMICKY]

Ben White's job is to play for Arsenal and there hasn't been a hint of him falling out with any of his managers, no matter what league he has played in. See post 138.

The England set up is completely different.

So where would that leave us if every player called up to the England team had that attitude? " This lot don't pay my wages so I'm not too fussed ". I think we'd prefer every player to be 100% on it so we could win a major tournament.

 

[Sarisbury Seagull]

Good point. I forgot they lost!

Yeah I hate myself for doing it but can't help it! I loved that tournament, I know far too much about it. It actually made me fall in love with football and I was particularly fond of the Italian team!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

So where would that leave us if every player called up to the England team had that attitude? " This lot don't pay my wages so I'm not too fussed ". I think we'd prefer every player to be 100% on it so we could win a major tournament.

You are thinking that players should be like robots churned out of a factory, all thinking alike and not individuals at all. Players are human and as such, will have different thoughts and processes.
A snidey coach does nobody any good. Some players can shrug it off, and others can't (especially if they have a personal problem)
Don't judge them all the same, and have enough grace to think that a player who has never had a problem with any of his bosses (listed) suddenly has a problem with a coach. Not the manager, but the coach.
Also think on, that Southgate has been proved to have lied about it since then.

Edit to add, I think White would come back to the England squad once Southgate and Holland step down. Just my opinion.

 

[BBassic]

But isn't that the precise point? If that's your job and you are effectively in the workplace is it acceptable to have a " meh " attitude?

Personally speaking I don't really give a shit if players hate football or love it as long as they put the requisite performances in on the pitch.

My main gripe with this situation is that Holland, according to reports, didn't dig out any other players. Just White. For me, Holland has come off as a bit of a prick