Baroness Thatcher - Dead / RIP

[somerset]

There's already been rumours, and now she's dead maybe some evidence will be found.

QUOTE]Evidence of what??.... that she was complicit in Saville's sexual abuse of children and women?..... are you completely mad?

 

[Common as Mook]

There's already been rumours, and now she's dead maybe some evidence will be found.

Until then the use of the photo as the headline is rather amusing. No?

Just when you thought the left couldn't stoop any lower

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

Agreed - inappropriate selection of words !



A little different from [MENTION=20456]ALBION28[/MENTION] 's post ! Baker, her education secretary, wanted to ban teaching about Nazis in history as well but it's hardly the banning of teaching history.

Centralising the curriculum certainly had an element of 'banning' teaching, so to speak.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Centralising the curriculum certainly had an element of 'banning' teaching, so to speak.

Agreed , changing the syllabus to suit a political whim smacks of censorship and paranoia

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Centralising the curriculum certainly had an element of 'banning' teaching, so to speak.

Agreed but I'm not sure what the answer is - do we allow teachers / schools / LEAs teach what they want to teach or ensure that all school children get taught the same thing via a centralised curriculum that's open to political manipulation ?

 

[JCL666]

She divided the country between those who are willing to work hard and get on by their own efforts, and those who are willing to get on by the efforts of others.

Odd... I work hard and get by on my own efforts. I loathed her.

You're wrong, get over it.

and as for your "I met a miner once" comment... so ****ing what? You met a person who felt their life had improved. I've met dozens of people who had families torn apart by her policies.

 

[Racek]

Why was she staying at the Ritz?

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

Agreed but I'm not sure what the answer is - do we allow teachers / schools / LEAs teach what they want to teach or ensure that all school children get taught the same thing via a centralised curriculum that's open to political manipulation ?

I'm not sure either! I think the system at the moment is far too centred on results (league tables, Ofsted, etc.), but that is an entrenched system now and would take massive upheaval to change. Teachers (for the most part) deserve more autonomy.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Why was she staying at the Ritz?

It was free accommodation

 

[El Presidente]

Evidence of what??.... that she was complicit in Saville's sexual abuse of children and women?..... are you completely mad?

They both shafted plenty of miners during their time.....

 

[Racek]

It was free accommodation

I would love to stay in the room she died in. Maybe they could advertise it like that? I might email them.....

 

[pork pie]

I'm not sure either! I think the system at the moment is far too centred on results (league tables, Ofsted, etc.), but that is an entrenched system now and would take massive upheaval to change. Teachers (for the most part) deserve more autonomy.

You are joking right? They cannot be trusted to not indoctrinate our young people with their left-wing ideals, as happened for years with so many beardy, jeans and cordroy wearing, lefties taking over our schools in the 60s, 70s and 80s. The National Curriculum is VITAL to ensure that there is an even standard of eduction. The Ofsted tables are also vital in telling parents which schools perform the best, and thus are the ones they should put their children into.

 

[The Large One]

Agreed but I'm not sure what the answer is - do we allow teachers / schools / LEAs teach what they want to teach or ensure that all school children get taught the same thing via a centralised curriculum that's open to political manipulation ?

I assume you're mostly talking about state schools. Fee-paying or independent schools don't necessarily have to adhere to the National Curriculum.

Thatcher feared that teaching unions - and therefore by implication, all teachers - were training grounds for rampant Marxism, just because they were a union. Of course, like all aspects of society, individual teachers came from all kinds of backgrounds - left and right (when those ideologies held some meaning) - and not all teaching unions were or are even left-wing.

But seeing as teaching is of vital importance to the nation as a whole, successive governments (and many across the world) have sought to set the agenda as to both what is taught and how it is taught. Look at the ridiculous obsession with league tables, or what Michael Gove intends now, for instance.

Successive governments and ministers since the 1980s appear to have not yet realised that maybe, just maybe, most teachers do actually have a reasonable idea as to what they're doing. There needs to be guidelines and standards - but nothing like to the extent of interference from central government.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

You are joking right? They cannot be trusted to not indoctrinate our young people with their left-wing ideals, as happened for years with so many beardy, jeans and cordroy wearing, lefties taking over our schools in the 60s, 70s and 80s. The National Curriculum is VITAL to ensure that there is an even standard of eduction. The Ofsted tables are also vital in telling parents which schools perform the best, and thus are the ones they should put their children into.

I'd always given you the benefit of the doubt but this diatribe is unbelievable !

I assume you're mostly talking about state schools. Fee-paying or independent schools don't necessarily have to adhere to the National Curriculum.

Thatcher feared that teaching unions - and therefore by implication, all teachers - were training grounds for rampant Marxism, just because they were a union. Of course, like all aspects of society, individual teachers came from all kinds of backgrounds - left and right (when those ideologies held some meaning) - and not all teaching unions were or are even left-wing.

But seeing as teaching is of vital importance to the nation as a whole, successive governments (and many across the world) have sought to set the agenda as to both what is taught and how it is taught. Look at the ridiculous obsession with league tables, or what Michael Gove intends now, for instance.

Successive governments and ministers since the 1980s appear to have not yet realised that maybe, just maybe, most teachers do actually have a reasonable idea as to what they're doing. There needs to be guidelines and standards - but nothing like to the extent of interference from central government.

Agreed but where do those guidelines and standards stop ? For example, I'm a strong believer that we should teach all children about the first and second world wars ( and the causes leading up to them ) to try and prevent future wars but many people might thing we shouldn't.

 

[The Large One]

Agreed but where do those guidelines and standards stop ? For example, I'm a strong believer that we should teach all children about the first and second world wars ( and the causes leading up to them ) to try and prevent future wars but many people might thing we shouldn't.

I don't think subject matter should come into under 'guidelines' (unless someone can think of an example that I haven't)* - in your example, that's tantamount to censorship.

It's HOW it's taught that's my issue. There are many ways to teach many subjects; the appropriateness of each may well come down to the individual teacher, the environment or the pupils in question. Standards can be achieved via different methods, and one size does not necessarily fit all.

History is possibly the one topic that's most subjective, but your example there defies logic. Would be interested to know the reasoning behind anyone's reluctance to have that aspect of history taught.

* Creationism. That can sod off.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

History is possibly the one topic that's most subjective, but your example there defies logic. Would be interested to know the reasoning behind anyone's reluctance to have that aspect of history taught.

* Creationism. That can sod off.

Agree completely with your post ( especially the bit underlined ! )

With regards the history bit - it somewhat depends on how you teach it - here's what Baker suggests leaving out which I totally disagree with ! Stop teaching about the holocaust so that children see Germany in a better light, says Lord Baker - Telegraph

Edit - there's obviously something to do with the name Baker that makes them a complete **insert a non-google friendly four letter swear word of your choice **

 

[The Large One]

With regards the history bit - it somewhat depends on how you teach it - here's what Baker suggests leaving out which I totally disagree with ! Stop teaching about the holocaust so that children see Germany in a better light, says Lord Baker - Telegraph[/I]

Doesn't put Germans in a good light? Or doesn't put Nazi Germans in a good light?

 

[pork pie]

I'd always given you the benefit of the doubt but this diatribe is unbelievable !



Agreed but where do those guidelines and standards stop ? For example, I'm a strong believer that we should teach all children about the first and second world wars ( and the causes leading up to them ) to try and prevent future wars but many people might thing we shouldn't.

Really? So what part of it is wrong? I suppose you are one of the offending types?

The guidelines and standards should be cast in stone. They are intended to improve our education system, and ensure students are prepared for uniform national exams. I remember when I was at school we had teachers who wasted valuable time on things that had nothing whatsoever to do with the national exam borad questions, or even to prepare me for future life.

The first, at junior school, spend weeks on "Topics" about "Northern Rhodesia" - why? Nothing about that in the 11+.

The second, a real beardy self-confessed leftie who would never report us when he saw us in the pub at lunchtimes, spend weeks studying the evils of Watergate - again - why? There was not a single question about it in the O Level papers.

Given that all teachers do now is roll out the same lectures year after year, they surely do not want to have to do any real work researching for fresh lectures each year do they?

Some muppet on here mentioned that one teacher wanted to teach (indoctrinate no doubt) his pupils about the Irish Conflict and the politics around them. Given the political views of the average teacher, that simply cannot be allowed.

 

[Common as Mook]

[MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] - The thread title appears to have changed. Please can it revert back to what it was? Far more appropriate.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Odd... I work hard and get by on my own efforts. I loathed her.

Same here.