Barber on TV Deal.

[Grombleton]

The excitement of possible promotion has, I'm afraid, become overshadowed by the continued commercialism and lack of engagement with fans.

Have you not read some of the threads showing how the club have gone above and beyond for the fans? Not to mention all they did in the wake of Shoreham?

 

[drew]

He doesn't get it. He drives to games rather than gets the train, he speaks as though he should get credit for attending 200 games on the spin....if i was being paid over 100K a year to be CEO of the club then I''d expect to go.

He doesn't understand the 'social' element - because his matchday routine isn't all about having 5/6 pints with the 'lads' on a Saturday. He's also so rich that he doesn't know what it's like to find out you have £40 worth of redundant train ticket.

He's totally out of touch on this one.

Can't see how you can criticize someone for not missing a match since they have been employed by the club. Yes he has a duty to go in his capacity as CEO but not to miss a game regardless of other commitments. Also, not everyone, probably not even the majority, have about 5/6 pints on matchdays. Maybe if you can afford 5/6 pints on a match day then £40 loss on a gamble isn't too bad!!!!

As for driving to games There are plenty of fans that have and do drive to games.

 

[El Presidente]

Further correspondence from PB.

Dear xxxxx

Thanks for posting my earlier notes.

I've just checked back in. They seem to have killed off the debate! That wasn't quite my intention but if it's because it's helped fans, that's good!

For the one or two individuals that still seem to be doubting what I thought what quite clear points on TV's effect on attendances, one final clarification which, again, please feel free to post:

- we use "crowd", "attendance" and "tickets sold" as inter-changeable terms meaning the same thing: as we only announce the number of tickets sold so it can only be the same thing.

- internally, however, like all clubs, we do also measure "season ticket no shows"; we then analyse this data to look at trends and patterns. We do not publish it externally.

- as I said earlier, and meant, from this data I can say that we have NOT seen any discernible difference between the number of STH "no shows" for live TV games versus games not on TV

- for example, the difference between Saturday 3pm KOs and Friday 7.45pm KOs is literally negligible - and I don't have Monday's data yet but I doubt it will vary that much

- our highest STH no shows are for Tuesday night home games (games rarely, if ever, live on TV) and, strangely, Bank Holidays (traditionally popular football attending fixtures)

- I suspect this is because we do see the youngest children not coming to Tuesday games or people that work in London of further afield struggling to make all weekday matches

- that said, we also analyse the number of games STHs miss and we do not see very consistent patterns of many people missing many games (beyond 3 or 4) or on particular days of the week

- with broadly consistent match ticket sales too, this means that our overall attendance numbers have been very similar; any significant differences are usually accountable to away fan sales

- not surprisingly, STH no shows are much lower than last season and, in all but 3pm Saturday KOs (how ironic that is!) this season, they are also are actually lower than 2013/14 season too!

- so, to be clear, season ticket no shows for Saturday home matches at 3pm in 2015/16 are at their highest level since the 2012/13 season! Again, very ironic.

- and, no, I can't explain this....except to say that maybe people's lives and habits are changing after all!!!!

Cheers, Paul

I'd like to add, that as someone who sort of works at the periphery of football, I don't see this level of interest and engagement from a CEO in football forums and fan debates elsewhere.

Where I work (Liverpool) the CEO has been very silent since the £77 pricing debacle, which he initially robustly defended.

 

[darkwolf666]

I love analysis of figures that shoot unsubstantiated opinions down in flames!

It is funny how perception and reality are so often completely detached.

Each individual case is obviously personal - but the data shows that overall no shows of STH's are not because of the TV offerings.

 

[8ace]

He doesn't get it. He drives to games rather than gets the train, he speaks as though he should get credit for attending 200 games on the spin....if i was being paid over 100K a year to be CEO of the club then I''d expect to go.

He also gets the juice in a motor paid for on expenses and gets into the game for nish.
It's like me boasting "I've been to work in my office 200 days on the spin".

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

He also gets the juice in a motor paid for on expenses and gets into the game for nish.
It's like me boasting "I've been to work in my office 200 days on the spin".

He also seems to be on NSC when he should be concentrating on other things; I guess we share this in common.

(Before my season ticket gets cancelled this is a joke)

 

[Steve in Japan]

I love analysis of figures that shoot unsubstantiated opinions down in flames!.

I'd like that too. Where are the figures you mention?

 

[Dirk Lehmann's Python]

Im clearly no longer worthy of supporting the club anymore because when I go to away games I go by car. Thank you so much for that. I just wont bother anymore

How ****ing precious are you? I simply meant that Barber will never experience the inconvenience of booking train tickets 3 months in advance so they are affordable, only for them to be worthless when the fixture is moved.

Nothing against half our support who travel by car. Christ.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Further correspondence from PB.



I'd like to add, that as someone who sort of works at the periphery of football, I don't see this level of interest and engagement from a CEO in football forums and fan debates elsewhere.

Where I work (Liverpool) the CEO has been very silent since the £77 pricing debacle, which he initially robustly defended.

Well said, whether we agree or disagree with club decisions, surely there can be no doubt that PB (and the club more widely), in fact try very hard to maintain engagement with the fans.

 

[darkwolf666]

I'd like that too. Where are the figures you mention?

Are you saying you don't believe?

 

[ROSM]

My only bug bear with Paul Barber's initial website piece was the comment that impact on fans was a consideration when agreeing to reschedule matches to which as others pointed out was clearly not a significant factor in the Burnley away and forest away decisions given that the former wasn't achievable by public transport and the latter was very tight after cheap rail tickets were likely to have been bought.

I don't see in any subsequent responses that this had been addressed

Just a pity really because I had thought that his comments this season had been more measured and less often up to now

 

[pastafarian]

supporters who go away and book cheap travel in advance will always be the big losers in this.....its crap they are the main losers.

i see only two options here

1/ clubs compensate fans who loose out financially ,clubs then bill SKY as part of the TV package........there is enough money floating about
2/ boycott the crap out of a main sponsor of live football until they pressure SKY to agree to option 1

 

[Herne Hill Seagull]

Just a word on STH no-shows. If I know in advance that I'm not going to make a game rearranged to a midweek, I get my card to a friend who will find somebody who can go, so the seat doesn't go unused. As far as the club is concerned, I've attended and all is well. But that's not the case - I'm pissed off and haven't attended at all. I can't be the only STH who does this when I can't get there. Again, the club will no doubt argue that the numbers who do this are 'negligible' but you don't want to go pissing off too many season ticket holders of long standing in any long-term business model, to use the language that seems to dominate football these days.

 

[darkwolf666]

Just a word on STH no-shows. If I know in advance that I'm not going to make a game rearranged to a midweek, I get my card to a friend who will find somebody who can go, so the seat doesn't go unused. As far as the club is concerned, I've attended and all is well. But that's not the case - I'm pissed off and haven't attended at all. I can't be the only STH who does this when I can't get there. Again, the club will no doubt argue that the numbers who do this are 'negligible' but you don't want to go pissing off too many season ticket holders of long standing in any long-term business model, to use the language that seems to dominate football these days.

Very fair point, and one that can't be measured all the while you are able to "share" your ticket with someone else. If it was non-transferable you would get a true picture, which quite clearly is something that no-one wants.

 

[Steve in Japan]

Are you saying you don't believe?

I suppose I am saying there aren't any figures.

 

[chaileyjem]

My only bug bear with Paul Barber's initial website piece was the comment that impact on fans was a consideration when agreeing to reschedule matches to which as others pointed out was clearly not a significant factor in the Burnley away and forest away decisions given that the former wasn't achievable by public transport and the latter was very tight after cheap rail tickets were likely to have been bought.

I don't see in any subsequent responses that this had been addressed

Just a pity really because I had thought that his comments this season had been more measured and less often up to now

i think he has a go at answering that via a subsequent email to ElP over here.
https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/showthread.php?334932-A-breakfast-chat-with-Paul-Barber

we DO take in to account supporters' travel when considering the impact of live TV games. This relates to both HOME and AWAY games. So, for example, when the Wolves game was switched to New Year's Day, we made sure our regular travel plan could be operational before agreeing to the switch. For away games (and only 2 away games have moved dates for TV purposes), we know that even when train timetables may not work perfectly (or at all), various supporters' coach services will still be running and that people can also drive their own vehicles or share cars and mini buses - and many do. The reality is that for all away games, the train is simply one mode of transport for our fans. There are many others. As I have repeatedly said, there's only so much we can do to marry up the various, often competing or conflicting, interests around a live TV match and we have very few options to refuse a live match. Unfortunately, as much as we might try to influence, we cannot control train timetables.

 

[ROSM]

Yes [MENTION=24867]chaileyjem[/MENTION] that is an answer but it's different from what was said initially which was a bland statement that didn't stand up to scrutiny (and I'm pleased he has given that clarification albeit that there is an effective writing course somewhere that would use this as a case study for students to improve on)

But coaches for sunday away games are usually booked months ahead. To add on new ones at short notice isn't easy for simple fans to arrange.

As others have said, Darren Bloom with a simple 'sorry' has achieved more on this in terms of positively selling the club's concern

 

[rippleman]

- we use "crowd", "attendance" and "tickets sold" as inter-changeable terms meaning the same thing: as we only announce the number of tickets sold so it can only be the same thing.

Bit of a shocker that the "best CEO in the world" doesn't have an English language dictionary! That is the beauty of our language; we have different words because they have different meanings. They certainly are not interchangeable because at least two of the words give different totals.

"Attendance" = those attending; being physically present

"Tickets sold" = the number of tickets sold irrespective of whether anybody turns up

"Crowd" = could be either of the above potentially but usually "attendance"

If you want to announce "attendance" then that is the fans who have turned up and put their bums on the seats.

If you want to inflate the figures then the announcement should be "tickets sold" (including everybody who had a ticket for the match irrespective of whether they turn up)

It really isn't that difficult.

 

[rippleman]

Maybe its time for a poll.

How many fans would have gone to Forest for the scheduled 3pm Saturday game (me) but now can't / won't travel because of the change? (me again)

 

[studio150]

supporters who go away and book cheap travel in advance will always be the big losers in this.....its crap they are the main losers.

i see only two options here

1/ clubs compensate fans who loose out financially ,clubs then bill SKY as part of the TV package........there is enough money floating about
2/ boycott the crap out of a main sponsor of live football until they pressure SKY to agree to option 1

Why dont they consider cars or coaches as an alternative rather than this perception that they are a special class of supporter and are entitled to a refund. They will also lose out if they are unable to travel for other reasons but presumably dont go cap in hand for a refund because they have a migraine or whatever.