Tony Meolas Loan Spell
Slut Faced Whores
Moving fixtures last min doesnt help. That is my point.
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Barber on TV Deal.
- Thread starter bn1&bn3 Albion
- Start date
Moving fixtures last min doesnt help. That is my point.
studio150
Well-known member
the following table from soccerstats
http://www.soccerstats.com/attendance.asp?league=england2
would indicate that the only way to get full grounds is to give away a vast number of free tickets. Your point is therefore not very valid given that empty seats are to be seen week in week out without TV coverage.
he highest % full is Bristol City at 91.4% which is overstated due to the rebuilding program
Tony Meolas Loan Spell
Slut Faced Whores
Go away you boring fart. This has affected a number of friends of mine so just do one yeah.
Green Cross Code Man
Wunt be druv
This all the way. When the game is moved to TV, the family stand where I sit is significantly reduced in attendance. There are loads of kids whose parents won't let them go midweek. Those saying it doesn't matter are usually the ones who are not disrupted by the shift and may be advantaged. For those of us from further afield than Brighton, evening games, especially Tuesdays, are a right pain. They are hard to get to in time and one is always late home. No-one I know prefers the evening games.
Message from Paul Barber, I just wish I could type as fast as him!
"Hi
I've just caught up with the NSC debate. I don't get time to monitor too many debates or to post on any message boards but this issue is an important one so here's a quick response to the outstanding points from various posters (happy to cover any others face to face at the forthcoming fans' forum):
1. This is a big issue for me - and I'm
"blathering on" about it - because, according to the club's emails, it's a big issue for our fans. It's easier for me to write one (long) Q and A, trying to cover as many of the supplementary points as I can, than reply to 50 individual emails...or the follow-ups. What other club CEOs may or may not do to manage this debate is not my concern.
2. I do care about fans because I am one -and have been for 40 years. My family are also fans and we've all been attending and paying to attend matches for many years.
I have attended every Albion league and cup match, home and away, since joining the club (ironically, Forest away will, I think, be 200 consecutive Albion games for me). I usually travel by road - as a driver not a "passenger"! - and, like our fans, I often get back in the early hours. I meet many fans up and down the country on their travels most weeks. I do understand what it's like to be a "normal supporter".
3. The questions in the piece are questions posed by our fans, not by me! Some are verbatim, some are paraphrased, but most fans' questions fall to the categories I've covered. The answers try to provide some perspective to the debate as well as explain the club's own position.
4. I can either answer by saying what fans want to hear (spin!) - or I can present the facts as they are (and be unpopular with some). My strong preference is always the latter (present the facts as they are, that is!).
5. No, I am not looking for a job with Sky; don't people think I have enough headaches running a football club...
6. I love 3pm Saturday KOs too. But after nearly 30 years of seeing games at (many) other times, I've become a bit more flexible, both professionally (I have no choice) and personally (I do like to go to other games when I'm not working).
7. Yes, I'm also pragmatic about the economics for the football club of accepting such changes. I have to be. As I explained, for the Albion, it's impossible for us to bridge the income gap any other way to remain competitive.
8. I'm certainly not blase about what Albion fans spend on tickets or getting to matches. As someone whose paid for tickets and travel to matcha for over 40 years, and still do for my kids, I'm well aware of the cost and why getting in early for better fares matters.
9. I don't see fixture changes as about winning PR battles with fans. The Forest change was made before tickets went on sale. We do advise on waiting for game confirmation or taking insurance if you can't wait. And we can only communicate changes when we know them. We do this as early as possible.
10. As much as we want as many fans as possible to travel to support the team, we do not get any income for away games. The ticket revenue belongs to the home club. A £10,000 TV fee doesn't even cover our own team cost of travel. We too also incur costs for changing our team travel at short notice.
11. I'm not sure that paying compensation to a few travelling fans is the answer. What happens if a game is changed late for a home match, would we need to pay compensation to many more fans? (A lot of season tickets live outside Sussex). Of course, we sympathise massively if people lose money but we can't be financially responsible for every issue out there.
12. Yes, our attendances for live TV games at home HAVE been consistent with non TV games. Two live TV games have been 26k+; my guess is that Burnley will be higher.
13. Good attendances in the stadium are very important to us (and all clubs). They are also very important to Sky. Reconciling not being able to broadcast live games at 3pm on a Saturday and minimising inconvenience around date changes that must follow is harder than first appears.
14. For example, fans probably don't realise Sky can't schedule live domestic broadcast on UEFA broadcast nights. This limits their options further and can result in bunching of domestic live games. We are lobbying UEFA for change to this.
15. A HUGE amount of TV revenue goes to grass roots football (for example, The FA's TV revenues - derived from the professional game - are split between the professional game and grass roots with the blessing of the professional clubs, including PL clubs). This is very important to everyone that loves football. I'm really not sure how we would replace this revenue for grass roots without TV.
16. We announce the tickets sold for our matches because that is now custom and practice in most professional football clubs and therefore provides a more accurate and direct comparison with other clubs. It's not "daft". And, arguably, it's a lot more accurate than it used to be in days gone by! At least it's an absolute number of tickets sold for a particular match and shows the demand for that game. We can never control who shows up and who doesn't. This is no different to the old days. On lost revenue from food and drink sales from people who don't come to games, it's nowhere near £10 per head - and we get a percentage of what is spent not the whole amount. However, ALL revenue is important to us so anything we lose here hurts.
17. To be clear, my job is to BALANCE the interests of the whole football club. Bring in enough money and manage the club efficiently to provide the best possible playing budget, fund the club's future by way of investment in the academy and the future fan base, and all the while create the best possible environment for our fans to watch our games. I must also take time to engage with many different audiences, of which our fans are the most important, but where our broadcast partners - our single biggest source of commercial income - are important too.
18. Finally, I have suggested at FL board meetings that it's absolutely vital that we ensure we make it as easy as possible for fans to attend matches home and away. This means having better communication with fans and the transport companies, more consideration for late fixture changes, and, if possible, a protocol for the notice we give for any changes. I will continue to do this.
That's it, personal abuse aside(!), I think I've covered and addressed all the points. Hope this helps! Feel free to post if you wish.
Cheers, Paul"
"Hi
I've just caught up with the NSC debate. I don't get time to monitor too many debates or to post on any message boards but this issue is an important one so here's a quick response to the outstanding points from various posters (happy to cover any others face to face at the forthcoming fans' forum):
1. This is a big issue for me - and I'm
"blathering on" about it - because, according to the club's emails, it's a big issue for our fans. It's easier for me to write one (long) Q and A, trying to cover as many of the supplementary points as I can, than reply to 50 individual emails...or the follow-ups. What other club CEOs may or may not do to manage this debate is not my concern.
2. I do care about fans because I am one -and have been for 40 years. My family are also fans and we've all been attending and paying to attend matches for many years.
I have attended every Albion league and cup match, home and away, since joining the club (ironically, Forest away will, I think, be 200 consecutive Albion games for me). I usually travel by road - as a driver not a "passenger"! - and, like our fans, I often get back in the early hours. I meet many fans up and down the country on their travels most weeks. I do understand what it's like to be a "normal supporter".
3. The questions in the piece are questions posed by our fans, not by me! Some are verbatim, some are paraphrased, but most fans' questions fall to the categories I've covered. The answers try to provide some perspective to the debate as well as explain the club's own position.
4. I can either answer by saying what fans want to hear (spin!) - or I can present the facts as they are (and be unpopular with some). My strong preference is always the latter (present the facts as they are, that is!).
5. No, I am not looking for a job with Sky; don't people think I have enough headaches running a football club...
6. I love 3pm Saturday KOs too. But after nearly 30 years of seeing games at (many) other times, I've become a bit more flexible, both professionally (I have no choice) and personally (I do like to go to other games when I'm not working).
7. Yes, I'm also pragmatic about the economics for the football club of accepting such changes. I have to be. As I explained, for the Albion, it's impossible for us to bridge the income gap any other way to remain competitive.
8. I'm certainly not blase about what Albion fans spend on tickets or getting to matches. As someone whose paid for tickets and travel to matcha for over 40 years, and still do for my kids, I'm well aware of the cost and why getting in early for better fares matters.
9. I don't see fixture changes as about winning PR battles with fans. The Forest change was made before tickets went on sale. We do advise on waiting for game confirmation or taking insurance if you can't wait. And we can only communicate changes when we know them. We do this as early as possible.
10. As much as we want as many fans as possible to travel to support the team, we do not get any income for away games. The ticket revenue belongs to the home club. A £10,000 TV fee doesn't even cover our own team cost of travel. We too also incur costs for changing our team travel at short notice.
11. I'm not sure that paying compensation to a few travelling fans is the answer. What happens if a game is changed late for a home match, would we need to pay compensation to many more fans? (A lot of season tickets live outside Sussex). Of course, we sympathise massively if people lose money but we can't be financially responsible for every issue out there.
12. Yes, our attendances for live TV games at home HAVE been consistent with non TV games. Two live TV games have been 26k+; my guess is that Burnley will be higher.
13. Good attendances in the stadium are very important to us (and all clubs). They are also very important to Sky. Reconciling not being able to broadcast live games at 3pm on a Saturday and minimising inconvenience around date changes that must follow is harder than first appears.
14. For example, fans probably don't realise Sky can't schedule live domestic broadcast on UEFA broadcast nights. This limits their options further and can result in bunching of domestic live games. We are lobbying UEFA for change to this.
15. A HUGE amount of TV revenue goes to grass roots football (for example, The FA's TV revenues - derived from the professional game - are split between the professional game and grass roots with the blessing of the professional clubs, including PL clubs). This is very important to everyone that loves football. I'm really not sure how we would replace this revenue for grass roots without TV.
16. We announce the tickets sold for our matches because that is now custom and practice in most professional football clubs and therefore provides a more accurate and direct comparison with other clubs. It's not "daft". And, arguably, it's a lot more accurate than it used to be in days gone by! At least it's an absolute number of tickets sold for a particular match and shows the demand for that game. We can never control who shows up and who doesn't. This is no different to the old days. On lost revenue from food and drink sales from people who don't come to games, it's nowhere near £10 per head - and we get a percentage of what is spent not the whole amount. However, ALL revenue is important to us so anything we lose here hurts.
17. To be clear, my job is to BALANCE the interests of the whole football club. Bring in enough money and manage the club efficiently to provide the best possible playing budget, fund the club's future by way of investment in the academy and the future fan base, and all the while create the best possible environment for our fans to watch our games. I must also take time to engage with many different audiences, of which our fans are the most important, but where our broadcast partners - our single biggest source of commercial income - are important too.
18. Finally, I have suggested at FL board meetings that it's absolutely vital that we ensure we make it as easy as possible for fans to attend matches home and away. This means having better communication with fans and the transport companies, more consideration for late fixture changes, and, if possible, a protocol for the notice we give for any changes. I will continue to do this.
That's it, personal abuse aside(!), I think I've covered and addressed all the points. Hope this helps! Feel free to post if you wish.
Cheers, Paul"
Green Cross Code Man
Wunt be druv
I think that was a much better response and credit to Paul Barber for it. I still feel sad regarding the direction football is going in and its relationship with TV, but that is not Mr Barber's fault.
Hampster Gull
Well-known member
- Dec 22, 2010
- 13,465
Thats all very well but there is NOTHING in there about the EU and immigration
darkwolf666
Well-known member
Nor is there any blame laid at the door of Jeremy Corbyn or David Cameron, simply not good enough
uHampster Gull
Well-known member
- Dec 22, 2010
- 13,465
Nor is there any blame laid at the door of Jeremy Corbyn or David Cameron, simply not good enough
Barber OUT
Points 12 & 16 suggest, to me at least, that Paul either doesn't quite get it or is deliberately avoiding the point.
I understand the logic of announcing tickets sold, but using that figure to support your point that attendances aren't affected by moving kick-off is a little dishonest. By definition, it doesn't give us the number season-ticket holders that don't make it - and STH's make up the vast majority of the sales in the first place! (70%?)
Use the number of tickets sold as the official attendance if you want, I don't really think that's an important point to argue, but if you're going to tell us Sky doesn't affect the number of people going to games then for this point alone you have to take into account the number of STHs that can't make it. Surely??
I understand the logic of announcing tickets sold, but using that figure to support your point that attendances aren't affected by moving kick-off is a little dishonest. By definition, it doesn't give us the number season-ticket holders that don't make it - and STH's make up the vast majority of the sales in the first place! (70%?)
Use the number of tickets sold as the official attendance if you want, I don't really think that's an important point to argue, but if you're going to tell us Sky doesn't affect the number of people going to games then for this point alone you have to take into account the number of STHs that can't make it. Surely??
I read that alongside his previous comments that no shows werent massively different figures for sky and non sky games. Im sure they must have the correct figures in order to have that info.
Im intrigued by the actual figures but can see the sense in announcing the amount of tickets the club have received payment for.
There was something the other day in the press about Man Utd which suggested they announce an attendance which has on occasion been 10-15000 higher than.the number whod entered Old Trafford
If that's true about no-shows then fair enough. It must just be psychological if it feels emptier to me!
I think it is slightly dishonest to use ticket sales to prove kick-offs don't affect fans given that the vast majority of those sales are guaranteed anyway - but as I say fair enough if there are other figures to back it up.
From last Mondays game, best estimates of several mates who watched on Sky were in the range of 17-20,000. Personally I would have said 20,000 was generous. The 25150 official tickets sold number is (of course) miles away from that. Is the difference worse than for a non-televised game? We don't know because the club doesn't tell us.
A couple of things I've noticed.
1. Paul Barber has started to refer to the official attendance as a "crowd". Must be a virtual crowd because it doesn't really exist
2. If the club is still running at anywhere between 3000 and 5000 no shows, surely that's a concern. It's one thing getting the ticket revenue, another to understand why so many people aren't turning up. In a promotion year. I think thats strange and I sort of agree with Barber - it's not just down to Sky.
jamie the seagull
Well-known member
- Jul 27, 2011
- 2,803
Fine, then they would have to show more of a mixture of the other clubs earlier in the season as they would have to hold back the games of the top clubs until the "climax".
The teams at the top have been there most of the season so it does not take much thought as to who to hold back on.
Silkster365
Oooo its a corner
True - I've had a season ticket for 20+ years now but have cancelled for next season. The excitement of possible promotion has, I'm afraid, become overshadowed by the continued commercialism and lack of engagement with fans. Not particularly the clubs fault, just what comes with being successful - but getting on a bit these (late 30's) I'm naturally not as fanatical as I was when I was younger because I have other commitments in my life. That combined with sky TV + bombardment of emails from the club about what I should be buying every week, all adds up to me feeling like enough is enough
Again - not saying this is the clubs fault, they have to do what their level of football now requires, but it's not MY club anymore
Dirk Lehmann's Python
New member
He doesn't get it. He drives to games rather than gets the train, he speaks as though he should get credit for attending 200 games on the spin....if i was being paid over 100K a year to be CEO of the club then I''d expect to go.
He doesn't understand the 'social' element - because his matchday routine isn't all about having 5/6 pints with the 'lads' on a Saturday. He's also so rich that he doesn't know what it's like to find out you have £40 worth of redundant train ticket.
He's totally out of touch on this one.
studio150
Well-known member
Lots of other fans drive rather than get the train, perhaps you can explain why they don't get it also and why you are elevating train fans above everyone else that supports the team,
Im clearly no longer worthy of supporting the club anymore because when I go to away games I go by car. Thank you so much for that. I just wont bother anymore
By all means disagree with some of PB's decisions but I think he and the club do go out of their way to engage with the fans.
The Fans Forum, Tony Bloom on trains at away games at times, and PB himself being prepared to write and explain the position are evidence of that.
Compared to most clubs of our size and position the Albion are streets ahead in that regard.