Ban the Grand National?

[Iggle Piggle]

What, a bunch of useless idiots that only care about profit and care nothing for the end user?

Ha. I was thinking forward looking and progressive.

Everyone knows that horse racing has a few dark gambling arts to it but when was the last corruption case? A friend of mine once enquired to a trainer why he had changed stable jockeys and the answer ' because son, I can't even tell when he is taking a pull'

As I say, I love racing but sometimes it doesn't help itself.

 

[dingodan]

There are 100s of millions of veggies around the world who will tell you that you don't *need* meat to survive. You choose to eat it, for fun, and millions of animals die each year to service that demand.

I dont eat meat for "fun".

 

[Mtoto]

I dont eat meat for "fun".

I'm so sorry. I had no idea that you had a severe medical condition that forces you to eat meat or else you'll die.

Apology retracted if you don't though, because if you don't eat it out of necessity, then to some degree you most certainly eat it for fun.

 

[Beach Hut]

I think the issue is more would we put humans in the same situations as horses are for this race - answer is no so which should mean changing the format.

 

[Mtoto]

But in that one quote you have confirmed the contradiction, without dealing with it. Yes, they love their animals. But death is, in your own words, "inevitable" in a small number of cases. I think saying that is quite glib. So how important, exactly, is it for these people not to see the horse die? If it was ALL-important, they wouldn't do it, end of discussion.

You are also skipping over the more reasonable idea of making more changes to lessen the likelihood of animals being put down.

It is also being disingenuous in the extreme to say that falls (and by implication, injury) is not part of the spectacle. Look at the preview coverage of the National on the BBC, falls are widely shown and part of the build-up.

Don't think it's glib, it's just a statement of fact, which the claim that they are happy to send them out to be killed most certainly is not.

Of course, if keeping horses safe was all-important, but if no-one raced them, there would be no thoroughbreds, which would be a shame, because they are truly beautiful animals, who never look better than when they are doing what they have been bred and trained to do.

I'm not skipping the idea of changes either, but there's no doubt that many significant changes have already been made, indeed probably all the major changes that can be made without removing the essential character of the race. The injury rate is barely higher than in regular jump races already.

This is from the British Horseracing Authority's response to the story, which took a while to arrive but is pretty good (and written by a vet). 1) Including this year, in 12 runnings of the Grand National since 2000, 479 horses have raced in the Grand National. 8 horses have been fatally injured, and we openly report this, as do the media including the BBC. Put another way, 471 horses went home after the race. In addition, in the seven years previous to this year’s running of the race, just three horses had lost their lives competing in the race – Hear The Echo, McKelvey and Tyneandthyneagain. McKelvey and Tyneandthyneagain were both injured when running riderless.
The full response is at Grand National

Pretty sure I didn't say anything about falls not being part of the spectacle. Was that someone else?

 

[8ace]

What does annoy me is what happened didn't come as huge surprise after watching the Topham chase on friday.

 

[WICKBHA]

Ban on making animals race?
What about NSC greyhound?
Or chucking them in a box making then chase a piece of plastic around a track is ok? many,many greyhounds are injured,not sure about death stats though,(maybe someone else knows?), so Ban NSC greyhound? LMFAO

 

[Waynflete]

they are combining the whole event in their comparison, and say at a three day meeting they statistically expect 3 fatalities. clearly, there is not a notably higher death rate at the National itself for them to highlight it. of course in a anti-National piece they are not going to explicitly say its no more dangerous than other hunt races, but its there for all to see.

Sorry to drag this up again, but just came across the following on the BBC:BBC News - Who, what, why: How dangerous is the Grand National?

According to the British Horseracing Authority over the past 11 races there have been six fatalities in the Grand National out of 439 horse-starts, making it more than twice as dangerous as the average National Hunt race (6 deaths per 1000). A smallish sample size, maybe, but seems indicative to me.

 

[drew]

National aside , there have been over 100 deaths to horses racing since 2000 alone. Think the National is on about 30 but unsure if that is the total.If you suggesting there have been 30 deaths in the national since 2000 then you need to check your facts and not post misleading headline figures.

Pretty sad and stats quite shocking.

I expect they will change the course again as seems quite a lot of opinion behind this.

I'm undecided. Such a big day for families up and down the country, 70k enjoy a day out there. Billions made and many people depend on it. Tone down the course and it just wouldnt be the same surely

Sorry mate but this is the typical ignorant attitude from someone who reads too much shyte in the newspapers. Every single racehorse leads a far better, healthier lifestyle compared to those that are outside horseracing. You can vouch for that can you? I suspect every single race horse that is either good, potentially good or once was good and still has his tackle in place, will receive the treatment you suggest. However, for those that don't make the grade then it is another storyThey are given the BEST medical care and attention, food and shelter that costs owners hunderds of thousands every year. They are ridden in training yards most days and are fitter and healthier and therefore will lead greater prolonged lives.

Agreed the grand national is the most dangerous race of the year. I think its something like 30 deaths since the race began. But would you ban motor racing because the deaths over the years in that, would you ban boxing when you see the severe brain damage and deaths over the years in that sport. Again sports that are run through the huge money in TV rights and sponsorship rather than the 'love of the game'

Look at Sea the stars, ran competatively 9 times, won 6 group 1's then was retired to stud and has smashed the granny out of 140 mares already. If thats not the life then i dont know what is. Understandibly seeing a horse die is a terrible shame that no-one wants to see, regardless whether you a die hard racing fan or a £1 E/W national backer. To call the grand national a death trap like many newspapers and calls to BAN the race is naive and ignorant in my opinion

I wouldn't ban it but I no longer have an interest or bother betting because years ago I bet on horses two years running that had to be put down, so I figured I'd best not continue betting on the National.

I suspect there are thousands of racehorses alive today grateful for you not putting a hex on them.

Pets are not bred for our entertainment, no. And if my cat ceased to be "entertaining" (which he is'nt anyway), I wouldnt kill or abandon him. Nor is he here in my flat for my financial gain. He provides companionship and I look after him. It is a mutually respectful and loving relationship. Infact show me any pet owner who keeps their pet for "entertainment".

As for the livestock comparison, horse racing does not contribute to dietary sustenance, just greed and entertainment, so dont pretend these are equivalent.

My view on cats and dogs is that I am against pedigrees of any sort. There are plenty of 'inbreds' who suffer from deformities purely for the vanity of breeders. As for your comment re entertainment, there is trait for some owners of 'pit bull' breeds to own them just for entertainment purposes.

As for the national, it will never be completely sanitised to the satisfaction of the anti's and as much as I don't like to see the horses killed, I do enjoy the rest of spectacle. However, remember that the main reason horses are euthanized is purely economic. In these particular cases they were put down because of a broken neck and a broken back but in many others it can just be a broken leg, the treatment of which would be costly with no likely return to form or income for the owners!!!

 

[siclean]

THE SUN......... year 2150 ...... Horse takes up lifeguard job, after all racing is banned

 

[beorhthelm]

interesting... not one mention about the jockey that is currently in a coma, which i wasnt aware of.

and @Waynflete, fair enough. wonder why the university chap didnt make a more explicit example.

 

[8ace]

interesting... not one mention about the jockey that is currently in a coma, which i wasnt aware of.

He woke up last night. And it didn't happen in the National.

 

[Bold Seagull]

In the papers today there are people who are calling for the race to be banned as viewers seem the event has become too dangerous after 2 horses were killed and a jockey was seriously injured.

The jockey that was injured fell in one of the races before the grand national.

I was not only concerned for the horses, but several jockey's didn't seem to move to me at all, and one appeared to be trampled. Gave me a bit of a sick feeling to be honest and I'm not particularly squeamish.

Just one thing to add to the mix. 2 maybe 3 years ago I was watching the National in Aintree in the cheap seats by the first fence - An exciting a spectacle as you can possible see in live sport in my view when 40 horses thunder down to the 1st. It simply takes your breath away.

That year, Mick Fitzgerald fell on L'ami and broke his back right in front of the stand. That fence has no run off either side, so there were 3 choices for when the horses came round the second time. (1) Stop the race (2) Partition off half the Fence or (3) Move Mick Fitz. Someone, somewhere decided on option 2.What transpired was one fat bloke putting white sticks in the fence whilst another ran around looking busy but not doing anything at all. An Ambulance arrived but overall there was no leadership and panic stations everywhere.

In the end someone pointed out the obvious. You can't have someone lying on the floor with a broken back yards away from where 30 odd horses are just about to jump, oblivious to what is the other side. A snap decision was made, fitz was moved and the partition on the fence was removed with seconds to spare. Mick Fitz was probably luckily he didn't get permanent damage given the haste with which he was ejected. Meanwhile to viewers on the TV it looked like nothing had happened.

That day it struck me there is a very big accident waiting to happen. And within that lies the problem. The British Horseracing Authority which may have changed names a few times but still remains the same thing. The last remaining old boys club with leadership stuck in the British empire. They don't give enough thought to safety, public image, future clientele etc as they are too busy protecting thier own interests. They make the FA look like Apple..

interesting... not one mention about the jockey that is currently in a coma, which i wasnt aware of.

Other than all the people that mention the jockey and the safety of the jockeys...

 

[Waynflete]

wonder why the university chap didnt make a more explicit example.

Yeah I wondered that. Maybe he didn't want to make comments about a specific set of races and was happier generalising about a larger sample (typical academic!).

 

[beorhthelm]

Other than all the people that mention the jockey and the safety of the jockeys...

ok, clearly wasnt reading everything.

 

[Perkino]

Gotta keep, otherwise there will be f*** loads of Horses being riden around the roads of Sussex. Horse racing is what helps keep them busy.

The horses didn't die from the racing, but when they break a bone the horse will never be able to race again so the owner decides to put it down rather than look after it during retirment... in fact, maybe we should take hold of this stream of thinking

 

[Bold Seagull]

Gotta keep, otherwise there will be f*** loads of Horses being riden around the roads of Sussex. Horse racing is what helps keep them busy.

The horses didn't die from the racing, but when they break a bone the horse will never be able to race again so the owner decides to put it down rather than look after it during retirment... in fact, maybe we should take hold of this stream of thinking

The real value in horse racing is the breeding, so the retirement of a winning race horse is actually when the money rolls in for owners - hence the big ding dong between JP McManus and Fergie a few years back over the Rock of Gibraltar. I think you'll find the Ornais died from a broken neck and was not put down on the course, and pretty sure Dooney's Gate was the same.

Now, before I post this I am breaking a golden rule with regard to posting any links with regard to the Daily Mail, however forget the journalism for a second, the pictures speak a thousand words for the carnage of this race. Quite how a jockey has not been killed since 1862 is really remarkable given what can happen.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1375210/Grand-National-2011-Ballabriggs-wins-day-drama-Aintree.html

 

[Brovion]

The real value in horse racing is the breeding, so the retirement of a winning race horse is actually when the money rolls in for owners - hence the big ding dong between JP McManus and Fergie a few years back over the Rock of Gibraltar. I think you'll find the Ornais died from a broken neck and was not put down on the course, and pretty sure Dooney's Gate was the same.

Now, before I post this I am breaking a golden rule with regard to posting any links with regard to the Daily Mail, however forget the journalism for a second, the pictures speak a thousand words for the carnage of this race. Quite how a jockey has not been killed since 1862 is really remarkable given what can happen.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-2011-Ballabriggs-wins-day-drama-Aintree.html

Blimey. Some of those pictures look more like The Charge of the Light Brigade than a horse race.

 

[vegster]

I think the root cause of all of this is the same old reason....money.

When The Grand National first started I'm sure it was a lot smaller and a lot less prestigous and also a lot less winnings going to the owner/trainer/jockey. As the years have passed it has ceased being a sport and is now a business, horses a specificly bred for certain races at huge expense, those that do not make it are either sold down to more second rate stables or just destroyed on the quiet.

It's exactly the same but on a smaller scale in Greyhound racing, many dogs who are not competitive enough meet sticky ends.
Man pleads guilty over greyhound burials From The Northern Echo)

And the reason is MONEY quite simply, animal welfare is simply bypassed due to costs. If a horse gets injured usually they will be put down unless the horse has good breeding potential and then £0000's will be spent on keeping it alive and fit enough to breed.

The Grand National will almost certainly survive mostly because of it's huge cash generating potential, which, is unlikely to change.

 

[Basil Fawlty]

Anti-Bloodsports tried to ban Boxing, but they didn't win. These Animal Rights campaigners, are now trying to ban the most anticipated race in the Horse Racing Calendar. I think it is total bollocks. IMO.