Ban the Grand National?

[Perkino]

bottom line... In a country that educates people in the doctrine of evolution and that life is the survival of the fittest why are people so bothered about a horse?

Last night I had chicken for dinner and I'm sure it had a wonderful life in a hut with thousands of others but it would never have been born if it wasn't for human consumption. likewise these horses are only bred for horse racing

It may seem cruel and unfair but they are not top of the food chain, similarly I saw a spider yesterday so I splatted him with a nearby shoe.

Animals are not equal to humans, if they were then nobody would be allowed to eat meat and people would go to prison for killing bugs, If people want a worthy cause to whine about then complain about human injustice first and when we have that sorted we can think about the animals

 

[Mtoto]

The real value in horse racing is the breeding, so the retirement of a winning race horse is actually when the money rolls in for owners - hence the big ding dong between JP McManus and Fergie a few years back over the Rock of Gibraltar. I think you'll find the Ornais died from a broken neck and was not put down on the course, and pretty sure Dooney's Gate was the same.

Now, before I post this I am breaking a golden rule with regard to posting any links with regard to the Daily Mail, however forget the journalism for a second, the pictures speak a thousand words for the carnage of this race. Quite how a jockey has not been killed since 1862 is really remarkable given what can happen.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1375210/Grand-National-2011-Ballabriggs-wins-day-drama-Aintree.html

Trainers/owners don't put horses down, vets do. Broken back/neck will kill them instantly in any case, the trouble with broken legs is that they frequently need to be immobilised for months in order to stand any chance of recovery, and horses aren't humans and so can't understand the need to stay still. As a result, vets usually take the decision that it is better to put them down as their quality of life will be so poor.
I've no doubt that some horses are put down due to economic concerns too, but it's far from the only reason, or even a widespread one, and in many cases, the decision has already been taken for them.
It's only Flat horses that go to stud as a rule, by the way. Jumpers are geldings.
Re the Mail, is it not possible to put it the other way around and say that the fact that no rider has been killed for such a long time suggests that it's not actually quite the deliberate bedlam it might appear to the casual observer?

 

[Bold Seagull]

It may seem cruel and unfair but they are not top of the food chain, similarly I saw a spider yesterday so I splatted him with a nearby shoe

Did no one tell you don't kill spiders, they eat the flies!

I always think it's weird when a grown man feels the need to kill a tiny spider - like it's some kind of threat. Live and let live I say!

p.s. I for one am bothered about how my chicken is cared for prior to me roasting it for dinner, hence purchase free range usually. I'm not necessarily concerned about horses being put down when necessary, after all it happens to 100's of abused or disowned dogs every week, but don't like to think of them put through unnecessary pain or cruelty during their lives.

There is a difference between putting down or slaughtering, and cruelty during an animals life before it reaches that point.

Unfortunately, not all chickens do have a wonderful life prior to arriving on our plates, some are genetically modified to grow incredibly quickly, without feathers in some cases, and never actually get to walk or see daylight. It's a shocking process really, an animal shouldn't have to be subjected to that even if it's sole purpose is to be killed eventually.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Trainers/owners don't put horses down, vets do. Broken back/neck will kill them instantly in any case, the trouble with broken legs is that they frequently need to be immobilised for months in order to stand any chance of recovery, and horses aren't humans and so can't understand the need to stay still. As a result, vets usually take the decision that it is better to put them down as their quality of life will be so poor.
I've no doubt that some horses are put down due to economic concerns too, but it's far from the only reason, or even a widespread one, and in many cases, the decision has already been taken for them.
It's only Flat horses that go to stud as a rule, by the way. Jumpers are geldings.
Re the Mail, is it not possible to put it the other way around and say that the fact that no rider has been killed for such a long time suggests that it's not actually quite the deliberate bedlam it might appear to the casual observer?

I didn't know that about national hunt horses, I've learnt something new today. You would have thought they needed their bollocks to jump those fences!

 

[Pavilionaire]

The ingredients that make the Grand National special include the large field, the long course, the high fences, the tradition. However, one of the most important points is the unpredictability of it, of which a fundamental part is the fact any horse could fall and bring down any other horse, or pull up because it doesn't fancy jumping a high fence.

I don't see how you can have that level of unpredictability AND make the race safer. If you shorten the fences or the course length itself then you'll have far more horses finishing and far more favourites winning the race. All it will take for the race to lose a third of its audience is to have the favourite win 3 years in a row, and then it will become much like any other race.

 

[Bold Seagull]

The ingredients that make the Grand National special include the large field, the long course, the high fences, the tradition. However, one of the most important points is the unpredictability of it, of which a fundamental part is the fact any horse could fall and bring down any other horse, or pull up because it doesn't fancy jumping a high fence.

I don't see how you can have that level of unpredictability AND make the race safer. If you shorten the fences or the course length itself then you'll have far more horses finishing and far more favourites winning the race. All it will take for the race to lose a third of its audience is to have the favourite win 3 years in a row, and then it will become much like any other race.

True. I made an earlier point as to whether the improved coverage, camera positions and HD tv have made it all a little too up close and personal to the very people attracted to the race for those reasons you mention. Your average one off punter doesn't want death served up, they want the 60-1 outsider to come in first or second. What makes this race is those one off punters, most horse racing enthusiasts I'm sure would pick other races such as the Gold Cup as the true test of a horse. But the very punters that make it special will be the ones who turn off if that's in their face again. Years gone by you never got that close on the tv, horses fell and died, but you didn't really see it.

Most of us happily eat our meat etc. but few of us want to know or see how it gets to our plates. I think the same is true of this race, people want the glory, the unpredictably etc. but they won't want the death etc. that goes with it. I already know a lot of people that won't be watching or placing bets next year that did this time and have in the past.