[Football] BAME managers

[Deportivo Seagull]

I believe all managerial appointments are based on merit. Clearly I can't prove this as I've never taken part in the process of recruiting a professional football manager.

Lee Bowyer, Karl Robinson, Graham Alexander, Paul Lambert ,Steve Evans, Jonathon Woodgate, Michael Appleton ... would indicate that this is not the case ....


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[Stat Brother]

He's still getting fed.

You, now we, only have ourselves to blame.

 

[amexer]

So why do you think only 3% of professional managers in the top 4 English leagues are from BAME backgrounds?

Is it because potential BAME managers have less merit compared to potential white managers?

If so, on what basis do they have less merit?

Would think large % of Bame footballers are from abroad and most return home end of career. Hardly any ex PL players from last 5 years whatever colour now in management. Good to hear lots of BAME doing coaching badges. Another subject but still think bigger concern is lack of opportunity for English managers in PL. Players as well..

 

[pb21]

Would think large % of Bame footballers are from abroad and most return home end of career. Hardly any ex PL players from last 5 years whatever colour now in management. Good to hear lots of BAME doing coaching badges. Another subject but still think bigger concern is lack of opportunity for English managers in PL. Players as well..

You haven't answered the question of 'why' though, you have just said what else ex BAME players are doing, i.e. going home (are a large % of BAME footballers foreign anyway?) and what they aren't doing, i.e. managing, which we all know.

Presumably the lack of English managers in the PL is because they aren't good enough though, particularly as the PL will attract all the top international talent £££.

 

[Palacefinder General]

This is absolute horseshit. A lot of managers get hired because they have a great name, great image or great connections..

100% true of Lampard, always the golden boy, good looking and ‘acceptable’ on many other superficial levels. Had Mourinho been less aesthetically appealing, less suave, or black, no way would he have got half of the management jobs he has imho.

 

[Super Steve Earle]

The number of ex-players making it into management positions has historically not reflected the ratio of white/ BAME players in the game.

Football isn't an inherently racist industry anymore, great strides have been made in this area.
However there remains a glaring disparity within the area of football management

Overcoming this type of systemic discrimination is exceptionally difficult.
If the perception amongst BAME players is that they are blocked from pursuing a career in management, then less will follow that path and it becomes a catch 22 situation.

There is always a need for positive discrimination, education and campaigning, in order to overcome the inertia that exists in changing these types of situations
Saying it's a meritocracy, so therefore there is not an issue, is naive.

Thanks to many years of campaigning and highlighting the issue, I think the number of BAME players who genuinely believe they can pursue coaching/management careers is increasing.
Whether this is currently reflected in the number of ex-players employed in coaching positions I don't know.
But if it isn't, it is right that the issue should be highlighted and positive action continues to be taken.

Speaking as someone who was a victim of positive discrimination, I would disagree that there is always a need for it. During a critical time in my career, my local area manager adopted a policy for two or three years of only appointing women to management vacancies. A glass ceiling for men if you will.

 

[cunning fergus]

Speaking as someone who was a victim of positive discrimination, I would disagree that there is always a need for it. During a critical time in my career, my local area manager adopted a policy for two or three years of only appointing women to management vacancies. A glass ceiling for men if you will.

Maybe someone needs to carry out an analysis of the industries and/or social areas in which the demographic statistics demonstrate that black people outperform white people. If we can understand what is underneath the “outperformance” in those industries and/or social areas then surely we can leverage the underlying structures and apply them to football management.

Professional sport and many performance arts are 2 areas but not so much management.........what else?

 

[NooBHA]

What about Chris Hughton? Got the Newcastle job when not experienced? He's now got an excellent reputation and I would imagine he's pretty much in demand (Watford apparently) were in for him, where was the racism there?[/QUOTE]



Your first post systematically list all the black Managers who had failed initially in their early Managerial Careers. Job done .... Eh ?

Nope you came back for more like you phrase above.

Did you ever really do any research about Chris and the Newcastle job ?

He did 10 years as an Assistant to about 7 different Managers at Spurs. And that doesn't count managing Spurs Reserves before that. Hardly inexperienced is it ?

Then look at how he got the Newcastle Job. He went up there as a Coach to Kevin Keegan. Then Keegan fell out with Ashley and walked out. Sued Ashley for £3m and won. The fans sided with Keegan and at that point was when the fractious relationship with fans began.

Who did Ashley turn to after Keegan. It wasn't Chris. It was the I haven't Managed for 10 years Joe Kinnear.

Then whe Kinnear had a heart attack. He didn't even turn to Chris then. He brought in someone else who hadn't be Managed anyone. Alan Shearer.

Talk about being overlooked for Promotion ?

If I was Chris I would have been absolutely sick.

Only when they went down was Chris given the job because he didn't wanna fork out big wages in a Manager.

Then he didn't even give him hardly any budget and sold a lot of Top players.

He didn't even give Chris an assistant until 2 thirds of the way through the Promotion Season. Chris worked with a Goalkeeping Coach as his assistant for most of the Promotion Season. Talk about trying to tie his hands behind his back. Metaphorically of course is the irony.

So I don't think you can accuse Chris of getting privileged breaks in Football Management. Chris became a successful Manager . Not because of his Colour but despite his colour and defying the odds

 

[Springal]

http://twitter.com/guardian_sport/status/1270446157156831234 interview with Chris today


https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...otests-wondering-if-it-will-change-things-yes

 

[sagaman]

What about Chris Hughton? Got the Newcastle job when not experienced? He's now got an excellent reputation and I would imagine he's pretty much in demand (Watford apparently) were in for him, where was the racism there?

Your first post systematically list all the black Managers who had failed initially in their early Managerial Careers. Job done .... Eh ?

Nope you came back for more like you phrase above.

Did you ever really do any research about Chris and the Newcastle job ?

He did 10 years as an Assistant to about 7 different Managers at Spurs. And that doesn't count managing Spurs Reserves before that. Hardly inexperienced is it ?

Then look at how he got the Newcastle Job. He went up there as a Coach to Kevin Keegan. Then Keegan fell out with Ashley and walked out. Sued Ashley for £3m and won. The fans sided with Keegan and at that point was when the fractious relationship with fans began.

Who did Ashley turn to after Keegan. It wasn't Chris. It was the I haven't Managed for 10 years Joe Kinnear.

Then whe Kinnear had a heart attack. He didn't even turn to Chris then. He brought in someone else who hadn't be Managed anyone. Alan Shearer.

Talk about being overlooked for Promotion ?

If I was Chris I would have been absolutely sick.

Only when they went down was Chris given the job because he didn't wanna fork out big wages in a Manager.

Then he didn't even give him hardly any budget and sold a lot of Top players.

He didn't even give Chris an assistant until 2 thirds of the way through the Promotion Season. Chris worked with a Goalkeeping Coach as his assistant for most of the Promotion Season. Talk about trying to tie his hands behind his back. Metaphorically of course is the irony.

So I don't think you can accuse Chris of getting privileged breaks in Football Management. Chris became a successful Manager . Not because of his Colour but despite his colour and defying the odds[/QUOTE]

Spot On .
Great post