[Football] BAME managers

[highflyer]

II don't see any racism in your post.

You may want to look a little more carefully then.

Try looking between the lines?

 

[Beach Seagull]

As someone who lectures for the League Managers Association at St George’s Park there are many BAME former players who are taking their badges and obtaining qualifications.

Good luck to them I hope they all land coaching / management roles.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Well, i tried being constructive and friendly, but that clearly didn't work. Go seek some help. Or go ticket someone, either way I couldn't give a shit.

Just about every other poster on the forum will have noted your constructive, friendly initial reply and the boorish ignorance of the response you received.

 

[Beach Seagull]

In 2017/18 there were three BAME managers in the top four divisions of 92 clubs.

Either you think professional football is operating on meritocratic basis and BAME people are either significantly worse at being football managers (or don't want to be football managers (why not?), I'm ruling out 3% as being otherwise representative), or there is a degree of someone's race influencing whether or not they are a manager.

What do you think?

I believe all managerial appointments are based on merit. Clearly I can't prove this as I've never taken part in the process of recruiting a professional football manager.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I just believe in a meritocracy and that jobs in any walk of life should be awarded on who is the best person for the job.

Is that how you ended up walking around in the rain, dressed in Hi Viz and wondering if Sonia is going to make it back to her 4x4 before you can move to the next stage of traffic enforcement?

 

[Beach Seagull]

Just about every other poster on the forum will have noted your constructive, friendly initial reply and the boorish ignorance of the response you received.

I've been on the receiving end of many a boorish and ignorant post on here, probably the insinuation of one poster that they hope I get Covid 19 topped the lot.

 

[Beach Seagull]

Is that how you ended up walking around in the rain, dressed in Hi Viz and wondering if Sonia is going to make it back to her 4x4 before you can move to the next stage of traffic enforcement?

Ooooooooh get you you leftie snob!!! Why look down at what someone does for a living?

 

[Beach Seagull]

You may want to look a little more carefully then.

Try looking between the lines?

There are no 'lines' to look between, I believe in a meritocracy and I don't care what race or gender the Albion manager providing they are successful.

 

[BBassic]

Dwight Yorke applied for the vacant managers job at Aston Villa by text message and wondered why he didn't get the gig for a club that has been in the PL for most of its existence. Sometimes the simple answer is that it's not racist but the individual needs to apply himself more.

Yeah, he may not be a shining example but I think the general point, made in interviews with and articles written by the likes of Rosenior, Hughton, Powell and Raheem Sterling, stands.

On the numbers alone it would appear that BAME individuals have a tougher time breaking into coaching and management. Some of that may be down, as you say, to effort but I personally don't believe that to be the case for everybody.

 

[highflyer]

There are no 'lines' to look between, I believe in a meritocracy and I don't care what race or gender the Albion manager providing they are successful.

OK mate.

 

[Springal]

I believe all managerial appointments are based on merit. Clearly I can't prove this as I've never taken part in the process of recruiting a professional football manager.

This whole thread is pointless. You don’t have a clue either way. Just an opinion. There is plenty of sources of opinion from BAME community involved in the game that DO know, but still you think you know better even though you admit you’ve never been involved.

Why don’t you find some good sources from clubs or chairman about why they think they employ more white managers than black to at least add some credibility to your argument?

 

[Justice]

Is it me that only thinks any new manager expects a half decent job off the bat these days? Do the badges and start at the bottom like our Graham has done and you might get to the PL one day.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Just about every other poster on the forum will have noted your constructive, friendly initial reply and the boorish ignorance of the response you received.

I didn't, but I couldn't could I ?

Sometimes I wish I had the patience and stamina of others; other times I just think: 'eff off, tedious trolls'.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I didn't, but I couldn't could I ?

Sometimes I wish I had the patience and stamina of others; other times I just think: 'eff off, tedious trolls'.

I think it’s a fair point. You have taken a fair bit of sarcasm for your ‘ignore’ policy but I can see its contribution to the serenity of one’s day. I’m just a bit too nosy to do the same which means I read everything, albeit sometimes with a wince. I do have one person on ignore but think a life sentence is probably a little harsh so I will review his case at some point soon. Personally I would put repetitive, divisive, agenda ridden threads (such as this one) on a sub forum but I understand [MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] raised the possibility to a generally negative response. Roll on the actual football !

 

[pb21]

I believe all managerial appointments are based on merit. Clearly I can't prove this as I've never taken part in the process of recruiting a professional football manager.

So why do you think only 3% of professional managers in the top 4 English leagues are from BAME backgrounds?

Is it because potential BAME managers have less merit compared to potential white managers?

If so, on what basis do they have less merit?

 

[BBassic]

Is it me that only thinks any new manager expects a half decent job off the bat these days? Do the badges and start at the bottom like our Graham has done and you might get to the PL one day.

There's something romantic in the idea that anyone could feasibly get their badges, start from the bottom, work hard and maybe one day find themselves in the Premier League. Or you could be lucky enough to be a Frank Lampard type and walk into one of the biggest clubs in the country after spending a year slumming it in the Championship

Those are the sorts of appointment that could possibly make people go "Hang on, how has that happened? What chance do I have?"

 

[Uh_huh_him]

The number of ex-players making it into management positions has historically not reflected the ratio of white/ BAME players in the game.

Football isn't an inherently racist industry anymore, great strides have been made in this area.
However there remains a glaring disparity within the area of football management

Overcoming this type of systemic discrimination is exceptionally difficult.
If the perception amongst BAME players is that they are blocked from pursuing a career in management, then less will follow that path and it becomes a catch 22 situation.

There is always a need for positive discrimination, education and campaigning, in order to overcome the inertia that exists in changing these types of situations
Saying it's a meritocracy, so therefore there is not an issue, is naive.

Thanks to many years of campaigning and highlighting the issue, I think the number of BAME players who genuinely believe they can pursue coaching/management careers is increasing.
Whether this is currently reflected in the number of ex-players employed in coaching positions I don't know.
But if it isn't, it is right that the issue should be highlighted and positive action continues to be taken.

 

[MattBackHome]

Mods can we please have a home for this sort of tripe

 

[Swansman]

I believe all managerial appointments are based on merit. Clearly I can't prove this as I've never taken part in the process of recruiting a professional football manager.

This is absolute horseshit. A lot of managers get hired because they have a great name, great image or great connections.

As for BAME managers, I think they will be more common in the not too distant future. There's more black players in the game now than before, and logically that will produce more black managers.

To reach a proportional share both football and society needs to change, and you also need another really succesfull black manager to open the doors both in the minds of the owners and in the minds of black players, who currently see little possibility of a career path. Another Frank Rijkaard. Before his tenure at Barcelona, black managers was even more unusual than after that.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Yeah, he may not be a shining example but I think the general point, made in interviews with and articles written by the likes of Rosenior, Hughton, Powell and Raheem Sterling, stands.

On the numbers alone it would appear that BAME individuals have a tougher time breaking into coaching and management. Some of that may be down, as you say, to effort but I personally don't believe that to be the case for everybody.

Back in the day Dwight Yorke used to be found in a Solihull nightclub I used to frequent - often the night before a game - always surrounded by blondes with massive tits. He never struck me as the management type unless it was the piss up and brewery style. Likewise Sol Campbell always came across awfully in interviews and I'm amazed he did so well at Macclesfield. I'd have sunk a few mortgages payments that he would make things worse but clearly I was wrong on that score.

Liam Rosenior always raises good points, as does Chris Hughton and it's worth hearing anything they have to say. Personally, i'd like to see more specifics in the debate. To get more BAME coaches, what's the plan to do it? How do we encourage more? I'm not convinced football clubs are racist per se. The Saudi's and their human rights record have arrived in Newcastle to a great fanfare as the locals dream of the title. They'd have the son of Hitler in charge if it guaranteed them Champions League football.

Sports have peaks of races & class in lots of different area. My local cricket club is full of people from South Asian origin. Simply, their culture is cricket, not football. The shortage in football could be as simple as that are culturally bound to cricket and a lot play from a young age. I also do a lot of Open Water swimming which is currently hand wringing itself over being predominantly white. Football is also have an upsurge in Private school kids making the grade as they play more sport and have started to prioritise it over Rugby due to the cash involved. You could argue they were previously under represented as you don't get many Tarquin's or Piers's making the grade. I suppose my point - if I have one - is that it's a complex set of issues at play which need a bit more thought than pointing at Steven Gerrard and wondering why he's got the Rangers job.