[Football] BAME managers

[Springal]

I propose a 'program' that says 'lets employ coaches based on ability rather than skin colour' Revolutionary eh. Wonder what the reaction would've been like on NSC if following the sacking of CH we employed Chris Powell as our new manager? Pretty underwhelming I would imagine (the same as it was when we first employed CH) with comments such as 'no PL experience' and 'lower league journeyman manager and 'his record is pretty average' getting bandied about on here.

Why do you think there are excellent & world class BAME players then - but only a tiny percentage make it into management ? Or even coaching?

Go and educate yourself on some of the articles above.

The fact Liam even tweets about anything to do with race and gets a load of racism back on Twitters should tell you the problems BAME face in society. In fact you did it yourself in your original post 'playing the race card'

 

[Beach Seagull]

You really don't get how forums work, do you.

Would you care to enlighten me please? I get NSC it's easy, just post something that strays from the acceptable liberal line and get insulted by the left wing elite who are so convinced they are right about everything that they think it's acceptable to do so.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Troll eh? Because I stray from the acceptable line? I can post whatever I like and if it offends you then don't open it. Simples.

Go back to work FFS



(Lifesize)

 

[Pierre the Painter]

One BAME manager in the PL currently so 5%, is a sorry state of affairs if you consider what % are BAME players.

I'm with Raheem on this one and I'm certainly by no means a liberal leftie. Yes there are examples that have been bought up which demonstate isolated instances where BAME managers have been given high profile jobs (and unfortunately in many of those cases failed) but given how manty jobs are on offer in any given period of time the number of managers and indeed coaches who come from a BAME background is very low given the proportion who have played football from these backgrounds.

 

[Beach Seagull]

Why do you think there are excellent & world class BAME players then - but only a tiny percentage make it into management ? Or even coaching?

What %age of them actually do their badges etc? No doubt Ian Wright feels very strongly about the issue but he no doubt hasn't.It could be less BAME players want to go into management.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Troll eh? Because I stray from the acceptable line? I can post whatever I like and if it offends you then don't open it. Simples.

It’s the boring part that’s more important. Not yourself but the subject matter of your posting. If you are so unconcerned about race stop posting threads about the subject. You seem to be deliberately and repeatedly creating the same division on NSC ( hence the troll reference). At least you haven’t quoted a Daily Mail article this time.

 

[Grombleton]

Would you care to enlighten me please? I get NSC it's easy, just post something that strays from the acceptable liberal line and get insulted by the left wing elite who are so convinced they are right about everything that they think it's acceptable to do so.

It isn't to do with being insulted by one side or the other. The point is, and I use your quote: "I can post whatever I like". No, no you can't. That's why there's moderators, that's why there's an infraction system.

And if you are that bothered by it, then speak to one of the moderating team (you may not agree with them, but i'm sure they will take any real complaints seriously).

 

[Guinness Boy]

Troll eh? Because I stray from the acceptable line? I can post whatever I like and if it offends you then don't open it. Simples.

I'm not offended, I'm bored, You're terrible at this. I suspect you timed this exactly to chime with the BLM thread and "North Korea Chat" so that you could have a good old cry about lefty censorship if it got binned, even though it's a carbon copy of your Robbie Fowler thread, and all your other threads are carbon copies of your DM link thread.

You once claimed to also read the Guardian and also be a Traffic Warden. Is there not one single story in the Guardian that was of interest today? Got any opinions on private parking companies and permit schemes?

It seems odd that your brain can only deal with two subjects. It must be tiny. Like the rest of you.

 

[BBassic]

And here's Dwight Yorke, coaching badges in tow, speaking in 2016 about being unable to break into management:

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...-manager-interviews-aston-villa-a7367266.html

And here he is again, saying the same things four years later (in the Daily Mail no less!) :

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...es-getting-management-black-professional.html

 

[Poojah]

I find this an interesting one. For many years, there has been much said about the lack of BAME managers and coaching staff in the game, but what I've never really seen is a fully mapped out argument as to where in the funnel things are going wrong. Without that, it's always going to be difficult to outline an effective solution. Let's look at the typical process for any prospective new manager:

• Attempts coaching badges
• Completes coaching badges
• Applies for job
• Interviews for job
• Appointed manager

If we look at the current pool of BAME players in the game, it's around 33%. However, the pool of prospective managers spans something more like 40 years, with an average closer to 10 years, when the BAME make-up amongst players was around 20%. So why then, aren't there anything like 1 in 5 BAME managers in the game? At the present time I can only think of Sol Campbell (Southend), Keith Curle (Carlisle) and Dino Maamria (Oldham) - just over 3%.

First off, I'd be keen to know the proportion of retiring players taking their coaching badges by ethnic group. If one in three players are BAME, is that reflected in the numbers of those going for coaching badges? If not - why is that?

Then, how does the success rate of BAME individuals compare with their Caucasian counterparts when it comes to achieving elite-level badges? If it's lower, again why?

My gut feel, which is no more than a hunch because I don't think the data is out there, is that fewer people of BAME background are taking coaching badges because of a perception, correct or otherwise, that they are unlikely to enjoy a successful career in coaching or management. This becomes a vicious circle - there aren't enough BAME people obtaining badges, applying for jobs and subsequently getting jobs, reinforcing the notion that a career in coaching isn't for them, in turn causing fewer people to attempt and obtain badges.

To that end, I can see something like the Rooney rule which has been successful in NFL circles having some effect. The loose concept is that for each coaching vacancy which opens up, at least one BAME person must be interviewed. You can argue that this is merely tokenism, but that's not the point. It would, in my opinion, lead to there being more BAME managers in the game in the short-term which in the long-term will encourage more people from black and minority groups to embark on that journey.

It's not going to be solved overnight. There is a general bias throughout football which favours experienced managers over inexperienced ones, and as of now the pool of experienced managers is overwhelmingly white. There will be an inevitable lag, but you have to start somewhere.

If none of that works, and it turns out that there is systemic racism within football club boardrooms, be it conscious or subconscious, then we have a bigger issue. But with the right studies, it should be a lot easier to work out the answer. We just need to stop talking about this issue, and start acting on it.

 

[Beach Seagull]

I just believe in a meritocracy and that jobs in any walk of life should be awarded on who is the best person for the job. They shouldn't be awarded based on 'quotas' or 'box ticking' As I said earlier I don't give a sh%t what race, gender etc our manager is (and indeed the England manager) as long as they our successful ,so if Tony Bloom wants to sack GP (I'm not advocating he does at present) and give the job to Hope Powell my initial scepticism (and a few others I would imagine)would soon if she navigates to a successful campaign. If that makes me a racist then fair enough, I expect the NSC 'inner circle' will soon dissect my post and find plenty of racism in it.

 

[El Presidente]

What %age of them actually do their badges etc? No doubt Ian Wright feels very strongly about the issue but he no doubt hasn't.It could be less BAME players want to go into management.

As someone who lectures for the League Managers Association at St George’s Park there are many BAME former players who are taking their badges and obtaining qualifications.

 

[Beach Seagull]

It isn't to do with being insulted by one side or the other. The point is, and I use your quote: "I can post whatever I like". No, no you can't. That's why there's moderators, that's why there's an infraction system.

And if you are that bothered by it, then speak to one of the moderating team (you may not agree with them, but i'm sure they will take any real complaints seriously).

You are a right do gooding little snowflake aintcha!!! Why don't you go on a flower arrangers forum?

 

[Grombleton]

You are a right do gooding little snowflake aintcha!!! Why don't you go on a flower arrangers forum?

Well, i tried being constructive and friendly, but that clearly didn't work. Go seek some help. Or go ticket someone, either way I couldn't give a shit.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Any impetus for change lies squarely in the hands of the club owners appointing the managers of their club. As a fan, you'd like to think they'd go for the candidate with the best credentials who most impesses at interview stage.

*edit* Abjectly fails to explain the appointment of Sami Hyypiä tho

 

[Poojah]

I just believe in a meritocracy and that jobs in any walk of life should be awarded on who is the best person for the job. They shouldn't be awarded based on 'quotas' or 'box ticking' As I said earlier I don't give a sh%t what race, gender etc our manager is (and indeed the England manager) as long as they our successful ,so if Tony Bloom wants to sack GP (I'm not advocating he does at present) and give the job to Hope Powell my initial scepticism (and a few others I would imagine)would soon if she navigates to a successful campaign. If that makes me a racist then fair enough, I expect the NSC 'inner circle' will soon dissect my post and find plenty of racism in it.

I agree with you that jobs in all industries should be a meritocracy, and I don't see any racism in your post. The point is however that it seems that right now we do not have a meritocracy. Whilst you can never be 100% certain, there may be many talented people of black and minority ethnic groups being lost to the game.

If that's due to a perception that people of such backgrounds are unlikely to get jobs, and therefore fewer attempt to do so, a short-term solution which requires a BAME interviewee for every vacancy may help counter that perception and lead us to a true meritocracy in the future.

 

[pb21]

I just believe in a meritocracy and that jobs in any walk of life should be awarded on who is the best person for the job.

In 2017/18 there were three BAME managers in the top four divisions of 92 clubs.

Either you think professional football is operating on meritocratic basis and BAME people are either significantly worse at being football managers (or don't want to be football managers (why not?), I'm ruling out 3% as being otherwise representative), or there is a degree of someone's race influencing whether or not they are a manager.

What do you think?

 

[Iggle Piggle]

And here's Dwight Yorke, coaching badges in tow, speaking in 2016 about being unable to break into management:

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...-manager-interviews-aston-villa-a7367266.html

And here he is again, saying the same things four years later (in the Daily Mail no less!) :

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...es-getting-management-black-professional.html

Dwight Yorke applied for the vacant managers job at Aston Villa by text message and wondered why he didn't get the gig for a club that has been in the PL for most of its existence. Sometimes the simple answer is that it's not racist but the individual needs to apply himself more.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

More shit from a gormless racist poster, judging by the replies.

 

[WilburySeagull]

As I have said elsewhere I have learned not to project my inexperienced views but listen to those who have experienced the problem. There of plenty of those: Chris Hougton, Chris Powell and Liam Rosenior just for starters.

Meritocracy is a great idea but it only works if every stage in the process and every person involved is truely indifferent to anything but ability to do the job. Instead Meritocracy is used as a slogan to avoid addressing the problem by blaming it on those affected by it.