[Football] BAME managers

[Beach Seagull]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52972621

Here we go again. If you are good enough you'll get the gig, football is the biggest meritocracy going. He conveniently forgets how Ruud Gullit and John Barnes first managerial jobs were at Chelsea and Celtic as he cites Frank Lampard and Steven Gerrard. For years Sol Campbell bleated how he couldn't get a managerial job waving the 'race' card when the more likely explanation was that as a footballer he had a reputation of being arrogant and aloof so maybe this put clubs off employing him, feeling maybe he wouldn't be able to connect with a dressing room.

No doubt Paul Ince feels the same way and yet he's managed 5 different clubs and was given the PL Blackburn job when he was still inexperienced and indeed he was given it ahead of the far more experienced Sam Allardyce. The same Paul Ince who declined to be interviewed by Dick Knight following the sacking of Mickey Adams.

Then you get racism in reverse, what an earth is the journeyman manager Chris Powell doing in the senior England set up? He's managed Charlton, Huddersfield and Southend, surely we should be employing coaches based on ability rather than skin colour? Would the FA give say Danny Wilson (pretty much a lower league manager) a crack at the England coaching set up? Would they hell.

Before the predictable howls of 'racist' land at my door by daring to stray away from the acceptable line on NSC, I would be more than happy with a female, disabled, muslim lesbian as our manager if she keeps us up.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

What’s the point in yet another thread setting up the same people on both sides, saying the same things ? Early candidate for the mooted new sub forum ?

 

[sparkie]

Needs to go in the proposed "Poison Lockdown" forum.

 

[Steve in Japan]

I am sure I speak for 99% on this board in saying I would welcome a coach of any colour who could get us playing decent football and up the table.

 

[Springal]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52972621

Here we go again. If you are good enough you'll get the gig, football is the biggest meritocracy going. He conveniently forgets how Ruud Gullit and John Barnes first managerial jobs were at Chelsea and Celtic as he cites Frank Lampard and Steven Gerrard. For years Sol Campbell bleated how he couldn't get a managerial job waving the 'race' card when the more likely explanation was that as a footballer he had a reputation of being arrogant and aloof so maybe this put clubs off employing him, feeling maybe he wouldn't be able to connect with a dressing room.
.

It says it all that you've had to go back to Ruud Gullit & John Barnes, to compare someone with Steven Gerrard & Frank Lampard.

There was an interesting thing on Sky Sports at the weekend about Chris Powell and how he struggled to get any work. He'd get badges, apply for jobs, told he needed more badges and was constantly overlooked. That was even at clubs he was a 'legend' at

 

[ATFC Seagull]

Missing the point completely.

In the whole it's not argued that top-level chairmen deliberately pass up black managers in favour of white ones on a case by case basis (although there could be some of that).

It's the systemic lack of BAME coaches and managers in the system. Getting accepted onto the selective elite coaching courses, getting jobs in academies and non-league clubs, being assistant managers etc etc.

 

[Da Man Clay]

Standard Beach Seagull thread rehearsing the same rhetoric.

 

[Grombleton]

I thought this thread felt a bit familiar. Then I remembered this thread:

https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/showthread.php?379764-Robbie-Fowler

 

[Bakero]

What’s the point in yet another thread setting up the same people on both sides, saying the same things ? Early candidate for the mooted new sub forum ?

I'd say Beach Seagull is a candidate for a muted sub forum.

 

[Beach Seagull]

It says it all that you've had to go back to Ruud Gullit & John Barnes, to compare someone with Steven Gerrard & Frank Lampard.

There was an interesting thing on Sky Sports at the weekend about Chris Powell and how he struggled to get any work. He'd get badges, apply for jobs, told he needed more badges and was constantly overlooked. That was even at clubs he was a 'legend' at

It indeed say it all as back in the 90's we weren't enlightened as we are now and yet they were given two of the biggest jobs in world football as their first job. What about Ryan Giggs and Frank Rijkaard getting the Wales and Holland jobs as their first managerial roles? Rijkaard then went onto manage Barcelona, where was the racism?

This wouldn't be the same Chris Powell who managed a number of lower league clubs would it? The same Chris Powell who is a coach in the senior England set up, despite not having even managed in the PL. I'm sorry to say it but I'm sure there are plenty of white managers who get 'overlooked' for jobs but who can't wave the 'race' card and enjoy endless debates about it in the media. Why doesn't Garry Megson for example get a chance in the England set up? Managed in the top flight, took WBA up twice, currently out of work?

What about Chris Hughton? Got the Newcastle job when not experienced? He's now got an excellent reputation and I would imagine he's pretty much in demand (Watford apparently) were in for him, where was the racism there?

 

[beorhthelm]

 

[Springal]

It indeed say it all as back in the 90's we weren't enlightened as we are now and yet they were given two of the biggest jobs in world football as their first job. What about Ryan Giggs and Frank Rijkaard getting the Wales and Holland jobs as their first managerial roles? Rijkaard then went onto manage Barcelona, where was the racism?

This wouldn't be the same Chris Powell who managed a number of lower league clubs would it? The same Chris Powell who is a coach in the senior England set up, despite not having even managed in the PL. I'm sorry to say it but I'm sure there are plenty of white managers who get 'overlooked' for jobs but who can't wave the 'race' card and enjoy endless debates about it in the media. Why doesn't Garry Megson for example get a chance in the England set up? Managed in the top flight, took WBA up twice, currently out of work?

What about Chris Hughton? Got the Newcastle job when not experienced? He's now got an excellent reputation and I would imagine he's pretty much in demand (Watford apparently) were in for him, where was the racism there?

You seem to be using point cases to try and say something does not exist. Chris Powell is involved in the England set up - like Paul Niven because of the BAME program. They were not involved until this program was bought in.

Interesting that you use Chris Hughton as an example when he was critical in the past about the lack of ANY other black managers in the Premier League and about the opportunities given to black coaches. I'd rather listen to Chris Hughton with real experience of these matters than some white football fan on a message board who really doesn't have any clue about either matter.

 

[Guinness Boy]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52972621

Here we go again. If you are good enough you'll get the gig, football is the biggest meritocracy going. He conveniently forgets how Ruud Gullit and John Barnes first managerial jobs were at Chelsea and Celtic as he cites Frank Lampard and Steven Gerrard. For years Sol Campbell bleated how he couldn't get a managerial job waving the 'race' card when the more likely explanation was that as a footballer he had a reputation of being arrogant and aloof so maybe this put clubs off employing him, feeling maybe he wouldn't be able to connect with a dressing room.

No doubt Paul Ince feels the same way and yet he's managed 5 different clubs and was given the PL Blackburn job when he was still inexperienced and indeed he was given it ahead of the far more experienced Sam Allardyce. The same Paul Ince who declined to be interviewed by Dick Knight following the sacking of Mickey Adams.

Then you get racism in reverse, what an earth is the journeyman manager Chris Powell doing in the senior England set up? He's managed Charlton, Huddersfield and Southend, surely we should be employing coaches based on ability rather than skin colour? Would the FA give say Danny Wilson (pretty much a lower league manager) a crack at the England coaching set up? Would they hell.

Before the predictable howls of 'racist' land at my door by daring to stray away from the acceptable line on NSC, I would be more than happy with a female, disabled, muslim lesbian as our manager if she keeps us up.

Morning, you boring troll.

Why is it you only ever post two threads - DM links and BAME managers?

 

[mashman156]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52972621

Here we go again. If you are good enough you'll get the gig, football is the biggest meritocracy going. He conveniently forgets how Ruud Gullit and John Barnes first managerial jobs were at Chelsea and Celtic as he cites Frank Lampard and Steven Gerrard. For years Sol Campbell bleated how he couldn't get a managerial job waving the 'race' card when the more likely explanation was that as a footballer he had a reputation of being arrogant and aloof so maybe this put clubs off employing him, feeling maybe he wouldn't be able to connect with a dressing room.

No doubt Paul Ince feels the same way and yet he's managed 5 different clubs and was given the PL Blackburn job when he was still inexperienced and indeed he was given it ahead of the far more experienced Sam Allardyce. The same Paul Ince who declined to be interviewed by Dick Knight following the sacking of Mickey Adams.

Then you get racism in reverse, what an earth is the journeyman manager Chris Powell doing in the senior England set up? He's managed Charlton, Huddersfield and Southend, surely we should be employing coaches based on ability rather than skin colour? Would the FA give say Danny Wilson (pretty much a lower league manager) a crack at the England coaching set up? Would they hell.

Before the predictable howls of 'racist' land at my door by daring to stray away from the acceptable line on NSC, I would be more than happy with a female, disabled, muslim lesbian as our manager if she keeps us up.

Of all the industries to defend the "If you're good enough..." bullshit, football really isn't the one to choose. If you look at the proportion of elite Black players that then become managers the figures are shocking.

How many that do eventually make it have to do their time in the lower leagues as a coach before taking the top job?

I've heard a lot of claptrap over the last few days denying that there is an underlying racist culture in western civilisation and this is right up there.

Moronic

 

[Beach Seagull]

Morning, you boring troll.

Why is it you only ever post two threads - DM links and BAME managers?

Troll eh? Because I stray from the acceptable line? I can post whatever I like and if it offends you then don't open it. Simples.

 

[Springal]

Of all the industries to defend the "If you're good enough..." bullshit, football really isn't the one to choose. If you look at the proportion of elite Black players that then become managers the figures are shocking.

How many that do eventually make it have to do their time in the lower leagues as a coach before taking the top job?

I've heard a lot of claptrap over the last few days denying that there is an underlying racist culture in western civilisation and this is right up there.

Moronic

Exactly. End of March there 6 / 91 BAME Managers in the top 4 divisions. 6.6%. How does that compare to how many BAME Players are there playing?

It is not an easy answer because it is a combination thing. I think there is subconscious racism within football still. Lack of trust or fear of clubs being targeted for having a BAME manager. Also opportunities, as mentioned it can be difficult for BAME coaches to get on the courses and the badges needed at the highest level

 

[BBassic]

Our very own Liam Rosenior wrote excellently about BAME coaches three years ago:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/dec/07/bame-coaches-fotball-rooney-rule

And Hughton, last year:

https://www.skysports.com/football/...ootball-has-missed-generation-of-bame-coaches

 

[Beach Hut]

Troll eh? Because I stray from the acceptable line? I can post whatever I like and if it offends you then don't open it. Simples.

You are not straying from the acceptable line at all, merely for the umpteenth time displaying your true colours. Bit like the other poster on here who repeatedly started threads with "Coon Cheese".

Carry on posting what you like however the agenda is always recurring.

 

[Grombleton]

I can post whatever I like and if it offends you then don't open it. Simples.

You really don't get how forums work, do you.

 

[Beach Seagull]

You seem to be using point cases to try and say something does not exist. Chris Powell is involved in the England set up - like Paul Niven because of the BAME program. They were not involved until this program was bought in.

Interesting that you use Chris Hughton as an example when he was critical in the past about the lack of ANY other black managers in the Premier League and about the opportunities given to black coaches. I'd rather listen to Chris Hughton with real experience of these matters than some white football fan on a message board who really doesn't have any clue about either matter.

I propose a 'program' that says 'lets employ coaches based on ability rather than skin colour' Revolutionary eh. Wonder what the reaction would've been like on NSC if following the sacking of CH we employed Chris Powell as our new manager? Pretty underwhelming I would imagine (the same as it was when we first employed CH) with comments such as 'no PL experience' and 'lower league journeyman manager and 'his record is pretty average' getting bandied about on here.