Aye Aye Ashley

[Sheebo]

Sorry but thats not how i see it....i respect you have a view..and I'm not going to champion Barnes..only bothered to look at it 5 mins ago...because of all the fuss...and tbh it didnt look as bad as i thought it was going to be ......i'll leave it at that

Nah fair enough mate - that's how NSC should be - reasoned debate. I'd much rather that then leaving a 'thumbs down' and not explaining a counter opinion

 

[Guy Fawkes]

I suggest you stop suggesting people look at stop frames or other videos. We've all seen it by now. Those that seem to idolise Barnes can see no wrong in what he did. A host of others, including many commentators, pundits, ex footballers are all saying Barnes was in the wrong.

He was a really good player for us and now he is a really good player for Burnley getting a deserved chance in the Premier league but that does not mean he can do no wrong, at least in most people's eyes. We all know Barnes played the ball first but he follows through. Simple as that. I'm no fan of Chelsea but Matic is not, by any stretch of the imagination, reckless, except of course in his retaliation!

I don't idolise Barnes or think he can do no wrong. I'm basing my opinion on what the evidence shows.

Would the pundits, etc be saying the same if it was the Chelsea player and on a Burnley (or any other also ran team that they don't really care about within the premier league) - I bet they would be defending the person making the pass and catching the other player.

The Chelsea player was late, not Barnes. If Barnes was looking to injure the Chelsea player as suggested on this thread multiple times, why wouldn't he be kicking towards where the Chelsea player was and not where there was a slim-ish chance that he would be? Matic is the one stretching (or lunging if you want to call it that or reckless if you think going that late after the ball is played is that, especially when Barnes is being cruiticised for less) Barnes wasn't stretching so is it right or fair that Barnes is treated like the one who acted with malice in this incident and should be punished retrospectively as some are still calling for several pages into the thread after several things showing Barnes had the ball, played a pass and then caught the Chelsea player who arrived late but reading their comments, they still think Barnes lunged at the chelsea player and wasn't near the ball (my interpretation of their posts)

Some people don't like Barnes and look for any opportunity to have a dig. So ignore who the players were, called Player X and Y and ignore who they play for, and ask yourself if you think it was the player making the pass who was at fault.

There are plenty of examples where players have been injured when they were caught accidently, or even they were late to the ball / tackle and injured themselves and to me this could have been the same here had Matic been injured (thankfully he wasn't)

 

[Thunder Bolt]

It reminds me of the Newport game where their player lunged at Calde, who had the ball. He was badly injured & Calde received a red card.
The club appealed because Calde was in possession of the ball, making a pass, when the other player lunged in. His appeal was upheld & the red card rescinded.

 

[Sheebo]

I don't idolise Barnes or think he can do no wrong. I'm basing my opinion on what the evidence shows.

Would the pundits, etc be saying the same if it was the Chelsea player and on a Burnley (or any other also ran team that they don't really care about within the premier league) - I bet they would be defending the person making the pass and catching the other player.

The Chelsea player was late, not Barnes. If Barnes was looking to injure the Chelsea player as suggested on this thread multiple times, why wouldn't he be kicking towards where the Chelsea player was and not where there was a slim-ish chance that he would be? Matic is the one stretching (or lunging if you want to call it that or reckless if you think going that late after the ball is played is that, especially when Barnes is being cruiticised for less) Barnes wasn't stretching so is it right or fair that Barnes is treated like the one who acted with malice in this incident and should be punished retrospectively as some are still calling for several pages into the thread after several things showing Barnes had the ball, played a pass and then caught the Chelsea player who arrived late but reading their comments, they still think Barnes lunged at the chelsea player and wasn't near the ball (my interpretation of their posts)

Some people don't like Barnes and look for any opportunity to have a dig. So ignore who the players were, called Player X and Y and ignore who they play for, and ask yourself if you think it was the player making the pass who was at fault.

There are plenty of examples where players have been injured when they were caught accidently, or even they were late to the ball / tackle and injured themselves and to me this could have been the same here had Matic been injured (thankfully he wasn't)

I completely agree with you on your point about how the incident came about. It was unfortunate that Barnes follow through caught Matic square on the leg (literally) . The point where we disagree is I think he then goes on to use excessive force and plant one on him - literally in a split second pushes his leg through harder. It's actually unfortunate or Barnes that he found himself having to make that decision though - bit of a freak thing that someone catches another that square on their leg by accident. He then makes a decision imo...

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I completely agree with you on your point about how the incident came about. It was unfortunate that Barnes follow through caught Matic square on the leg (literally) . The point where we disagree is I think he then goes on to use excessive force and plant one on him - literally in a split second pushes his leg through harder. It's actually unfortunate or Barnes that he found himself having to make that decision though - bit of a freak thing that someone catches another that square on their leg by accident. He then makes a decision imo...

If it was as hard as you describe, how did Matic jump up, run at Barnes & then push him over? He would have been in too much pain even with shin pads.

 

[8th battalion East Lancs]

I like the use of 'transferred his weight' and 'split second' and 'challenge' by Sheebo.

Not contradictory at all and your original post wasn't patronising towards folk who may or may not have played football.

And Matic didn't have his leg broken in two because Barnes 'transferred his weight' in a 'split second' to make a 'challenge'.

 

[spence]

I think he's a great player but an apology to Matic wouldn't go amiss. Very, very poor challenge.

Chelsea your first team?

Not even a booking.

 

[spence]

No for dangerously tackling him in the middle of his leg. Matic was only sent off for his retaliation when it was natural aftet a career threatening lunge at him. That is how I saw it coupled with the MOTD crew.

Do you purposely post bollox for a reaction?

 

[Deadly Danson]

This is a really interesting one. My opinion has changed backwards and forwards as different people have put forward their theories. For what it's worth I now think Matic shouldn't have dived in but Barnes knew exactly what he was doing although it wasn't premeditated. It's this sort of decision that would make tv referrals (which I'm in favour of) so difficult. But this thread and the one about the ball over the line last year which Greer cleared have been NSC at its best. Ultimately, the only one who knows for sure is Barnes but his body language after the incident tells me quite a lot I think.

 

[spence]

This is a really interesting one. My opinion has changed backwards and forwards as different people have put forward their theories. For what it's worth I now think Matic shouldn't have dived in but Barnes knew exactly what he was doing although it wasn't premeditated. It's this sort of decision that would make tv referrals (which I'm in favour of) so difficult. But this thread and the one about the ball over the line last year which Greer cleared have been NSC at its best. Ultimately, the only one who knows for sure is Barnes but his body language after the incident tells me quite a lot I think.

What it tells me was that the Chelsea player blatantly cheated by wriggling about on the floor and when he knew he wasn't getting the decision he wanted from the ref he took retribution himself. Absolutely appalling behavior in trying to get another player sent off by feigning injury.
Barnes rightly trotted off because he simply didn't do anything wrong.

 

[R. Slicker]

Just to give my opinion on this:

1) Not meaning to sound patronising but anyone who's played football knows what he's done..

2) Yes he's just made a pass but he's then transferred his weight onto pushing through Matic's leg - he knew exactly what he was doing

3) This is quite a common thing - you have a decision to make in a split second - essentially leave one on your oponent or not. Had he not followed right through it wouldn't have been his fault but also wouldn't have bent Matic's leg like that..

4) it's a very similar thing to the challenge he got sent off for against Burbley for us in that he left his foot in to leave one in the player making the poor challenge then too (altho it wasn't as bad and wasn't a clear red). Again, I feel if you play foot all regularly or have done you know exactly the decision he'd faced...

5) I can't be bothered to read the whole thread and appreciate some of the posts defending Barnes are a joke (literally)

6) I really like Ash and am glad he's doing well at Burnley (altho Slightly amazed he is tbh)

Pretty much all of the above.
Barnes sees Matic approaching and leaves his foot in to hurt him.
Matic reacts like he does because he's a professional footballer who knows another one has tried to put him out of the game.
Well, that's how I see it, anyway.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

I'm quoting this post to show those who say that Barnes made the challenge.
This still shows quite clearly that Barnes was in possession and Matic was the one who made the challenge.

However this still also clearly shows that if he just played the pass like any normal player would there is no way he would have kicked Matic in the shin

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

It's also impossible to prove god doesn't exist. What's your point?

I'm not sure thats actually true. But anyway, that would be a major digression

 

[El Presidente]

It's also impossible to prove Bens Granddad doesn't exist. What's your point?

Very true.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Not read most of the previous posts but I assume I am not alone in saying that this sort of action from Barnes is well in keeping with his character. His career at Brighton was spent niggling, retaliating and just being downright nasty. He tried desperately hard to curb his temperament but eventually it surfaces again.

 

[brightn'ove]

The one thing, in my opinion, which shows Barnes couldn't have intentionally done that is the sheer speed at which it happens. Matic is SO far away when Barnes is about to pass the ball, Barnes can be a dirty ******* but he isn't THAT quick!

 

[Triggaaar]

The point where we disagree is I think he then goes on to use excessive force and plant one on him - literally in a split second pushes his leg through harder. It's actually unfortunate or Barnes that he found himself having to make that decision though - bit of a freak thing that someone catches another that square on their leg by accident. He then makes a decision imo...

I think that's complete guesswork. In the real time video it's so fast it's impossible to judge what Barnes is thinking after Matic slid in. You can't use slow-mo to work out what Barnes is thinking either.

Barnes passed the ball. He would have suddenly become aware he was on the receiving end of a challenge, and his natural reaction may have been to brace himself (that too is just guessing). His straightish leg is just his natural follow through, and he went on to bend his right leg as he went through Matic - I'd think he'd have kept it straight if he wanted to cause harm. I don't think there's anyway one can be confident that he was trying to harm Matic.

2) Yes he's just made a pass but he's then transferred his weight onto pushing through Matic's leg

Where was his weight supposed to go? Had Matic not slid in, Barnes would have landed on his right leg, so that's where he expected his weight to go. When he then felt a challenge coming in, he could have relaxed and risked injury to himself, or stayed strong. It's possible he left one on his opponent on purpose, but I don't think anyone can be sure about that.

However this still also clearly shows that if he just played the pass like any normal player would there is no way he would have kicked Matic in the shin

What shows that he wouldn't? The still of Ash making a pass (post #148) shows how Ash would follow through even when not being challenged.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The one thing, in my opinion, which shows Barnes couldn't have intentionally done that is the sheer speed at which it happens. Matic is SO far away when Barnes is about to pass the ball, Barnes can be a dirty ******* but he isn't THAT quick!

As a Barnes fan, I can tell you, that quick thinking is definitely not his forte.

 

[beefypigeon]

As plenty have already mentioned, Barnes made a pass and his follow-through was what caught Matic. So technically... he didn't make a challenge.

What I don't quite understand is how Barnes managed to exaggerate his 'follow-through' so much after the pass. He was comfortably going to get to the ball ahead of Matic, and when he makes contact with the ball he is quite upright. Why then does he decide to slide through the ball in such a dangerous manner?

I was a big Barnes fan when he played for us, and I'm happy to see he's doing well at Burnley... we could definitely do with a player like him now! I don't think he tried to hurt Matic, just like he didn't try and injure Ivanovic in the first half (his eyes never left the ball). But I don't think anyone can argue with the fact it was very dangerous, and for that fact alone I think it deserved a red.

 

[The Wizard]

I was a big Barnes fan when he played for us, and I'm happy to see he's doing well at Burnley... we could definitely do with a player like him now! I don't think he tried to hurt Matic, just like he didn't try and injure Ivanovic in the first half (his eyes never left the ball). But I don't think anyone can argue with the fact it was very dangerous, and for that fact alone I think it deserved a red.

Any tackle is dangerous in some sense though, I absolutely disagree it is a red. Matic could have had his leg snapped for sure but I honestly don't think Barnes intentionally did that, like an idiot Matic got up and reacted like a petulant school child.

What is the difference between this situation and when a player goes in 2 footed but doesn't make contact so gets away with it? Players aren't sent off for that so where do we draw the line? If for example a player jumps over a 2 footed challenge no action is taken, perhaps a yellow ocassionaly, yet if a player leaves a bit on a player that is a straight red and deserving of a ban? I only hope we never get to the point where every tackle is over-analysed by pundits who use any excuse to be outraged by something, all players make bad tackles the over reaction to this by the media is ridiculous IMO.