Ashley Barnes isn't nearly good enough for us.

[Nottseagull]

Bit harsh!

Before the international break, he was 196 mins/goal.

If it makes Albion fans feel any better today, he's scored as many as the likes of Son, Firmino, Perez, Lacazette, Mount and Maddison.

(No, I didn't think it would....)

Not harsh at all - that's actually over 3 hours.

 

[Icy Gull]

The contract AB was offered was for a derisory low sum, at a level had been paying League One wages, at a small fraction of that being paid to Buckley, Hoskins, CMS. [Sauce at the time: a respected NSC’er who found out from a club official].

Yep, I got the distinct impression that we really didn’t try very hard to keep him, probably the reason he said that he didn’t feel wanted here.

 

[One Love]

Waiting for the “penalties don’t count” retort from an AB hater.

I'm not a Barnes hater, I admire him for what he's achieved as a player.

However, the above is a comparison of how long it takes each striker to score. As they don't all take penalties for their team, to make a proper comparison, penalties have to be excluded.

 

[Weststander]

Yep, I got the distinct impression that we really didn’t try very hard to keep him, probably the reason he said that he didn’t feel wanted here.

2013/14 average Championship wages - £8k a week.
2013/14 Albion playing some players between £9k & £15k a week.
2012/13 Murray & Spironi on £9k to £11k at CP. Muzza-disliking Poyet had offered him £6k a week in 2011.

Albion - Barnes was on and offered again £3k a week. With a young family, Dyche’s offer of a quality and long contract was a no-brainer.

 

[Weststander]

I'm not a Barnes hater, I admire him for what he's achieved as a player.

However, the above is a comparison of how long it takes each striker to score. As they don't all take penalties for their team, to make a proper comparison, penalties have to be excluded.

Most would think pen’s should be included. Takes guts, is a skill against giant keepers, and we’ve seen a load of good Albion strikers who are rubbish at it.

Kane, Lampard and Lineker filled their boots with pens. Did anyone ever say “let’s deduct those from our judgement of them”?

 

[One Love]

Most would think pen’s should be included. Takes guts, is a skill against giant keepers, and we’ve seen a load of good Albion strikers who are rubbish at it.

Kane, Lampard and Lineker filled their boots with pens. Did anyone ever say “let’s deduct those from our judgement of them”?

Only when trying to make a fair comparison of their goal scoring.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I'm not a Barnes hater, I admire him for what he's achieved as a player.

However, the above is a comparison of how long it takes each striker to score. As they don't all take penalties for their team, to make a proper comparison, penalties have to be excluded.

Any statto got a list that excludes penalties? Would be most educational. Suspect AB would actually rise up the rankings. And ol' ferret face that scored at second time of asking yesterday might well drop down a few places.

 

[hart's shirt]

Most would think pen’s should be included. Takes guts, is a skill against giant keepers, and we’ve seen a load of good Albion strikers who are rubbish at it.

Kane, Lampard and Lineker filled their boots with pens. Did anyone ever say “let’s deduct those from our judgement of them”?

Agreed.

Do we then subtract goals scored from direct free kicks outside the box because that's a direct goal scoring opportunity from a dead ball? Of course not.

Most of the top goalscorers end up taking the penalties for their sides. So if we apply the no penalties count rule to Barnes, the same is true for Vardy, Kane,....

It's worth pointing out in Burnley's case that they were only awarded 2 penalties during the 2018-2019 EPL season - they scored both of them.

Only 2 sides were awarded fewer - Watford and Huddersfield with 1 each.

In contrast, Albion were given 6 (scored 5, 1 saved). And somehow Palace had 11 even though Zaha doesn't dive... .

https://www.statbunker.com/competitions/ForPenalty?comp_id=614

So as far as Ashley Barnes is concerned, his figures are less likely to be affected by penalties than most other top goalscorers since Burnley generally don't get many.

Thus if one was to exclude penalties, his strike rate is probably even better when compared with others whose teams are awarded more of them.

Whichever way one looks at it, he's clearly good enough.

 

[Acker79]

Agreed.

Do we then subtract goals scored from direct free kicks outside the box because that's a direct goal scoring opportunity from a dead ball? Of course not.

Most of the top goalscorers end up taking the penalties for their sides. So if we apply the no penalties count rule to Barnes, the same is true for Vardy, Kane,....

It's worth pointing out in Burnley's case that they were only awarded 2 penalties during the 2018-2019 EPL season - they scored both of them.

Only 2 sides were awarded fewer - Watford and Huddersfield with 1 each.

In contrast, Albion were given 6 (scored 5, 1 saved). And somehow Palace had 11 even though Zaha doesn't dive... .

https://www.statbunker.com/competitions/ForPenalty?comp_id=614

So as far as Ashley Barnes is concerned, his figures are less likely to be affected by penalties than most other top goalscorers since Burnley generally don't get many.

Thus if one was to exclude penalties, his strike rate is probably even better when compared with others.

Whichever way one looks at it, he's clearly good enough.

Also, what about rebounded penalties that are scored? They're not officially penalty goals, so they don't get chalked off, but should they? If we're ruling out goals from penalties and free kicks, shouldn't we also rul out goals from corners?

 

[One Love]

The discussion has got ridiculous.

How often would a striker score a penalty and how often from a free kick or corner?

Are you seriously saying that if you have two strikers playing for the same team at the same time and one of them always takes the penalties that you would compare their strike rate without adjusting for penalties?

 

[Acker79]

The discussion has got ridiculous.

How often would a striker score a penalty and how often from a free kick or corner?

Are you seriously saying that if you have two strikers playing for the same team at the same time and one of them always takes the penalties that you would compare their strike rate without adjusting for penalties?

Yes. I might note one takes them, but given the trouble we've had scoring penalties, particularly the year we had Wood, Barnes and Murray and ended the season with more than half a dozen penalty takers, I don't think scoring a penalty is easy.

I think taking away goals to try to prove a point makes one seem desperate to make someone look worse than they are and it undermines their position. It's like trying to make a goalkeeper look less impressive by taking away any clean sheets in goals he never faced a proper shot on target. If it's about how often they're scored, shouldn't we also take away tap-ins from inside the 6 yard box? One-on-ones with the keeper? Maupay's header against Tottenham would have been an so much easier to score than a last minute penalty in an FA cup semi-final, so why is the latter dismissed?

 

[One Love]

I think taking away goals to try to prove a point makes one seem desperate to make someone look worse than they are and it undermines their position

I could say including penalties for the designated penalty taker in a team makes one seem desperate to make someone look better than they are.

All I'm saying is that IF you are comparing records you need to make the comparison like for like.

I can see I'm bashing my head against a brick wall here.

 

[One Love]

If I remember rightly penalties and Mr Barnes are a sore subject.

He was on a long barren run and was getting stick for it. A penalty came up and he was obviously not the designated taker and he insisted on taking it. A large section of the crowd booed him for it (not me by the way) I imagine because they felt he had chosen himself breaking his non-scoring spell over the good of the team. As he had a lot of detractors at the time this didn't go down too well.

As I say I haven't got an axe to grind as he has improved massively and proved his worth as a Premier League striker to everyone.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Ian Wright retired in 2001. Can't speak for everyone else, but I wasn't on NSC pre-2001, so prior to that so couldn't have posted about his goals.

After we turned him down, Ian Wright returned to amateur and part time football to continue his development, went to prison for a couple of weeks, then gained renewed focus. (thank you, wikipedia!). The Ian Wright we trialled went through a change in attitude and application and then went on to be a success.

We didn't turn down Ashley Barnes. We signed him in 2010. While he was with us some of the fans wrote him off as not good enough for league one, then we let him go to a rival where he was a success winning promotion to the premier league before we did, and continues to make a success of his time in the premier league.

Ian Wright was never one of ours, Ashley Barnes was.

So what? He isn’t now.

 

[Acker79]

So what? He isn’t now.

No, he's at another premier league club scoring goals, proving the OP (and some of our other fans) very wrong, hence this thread getting bumped when that happens.

 

[blue-shifted]

I'm slightly confused why this thread has gone on for so long. Players come and go. Sometimes, they bloom late, sometimes they excel in a particular environment for a particular manager.

It's fair to say that Dyche has got way more out of him than Poyet did. But Poyet got more out of, say Bridcutt, than Dyche probably would have done. Again, right time, right manager, right formation, right environment.

Ash gone to another club and done really well. I don't really see why we need to go on about it

 

[Weststander]

I'm slightly confused why this thread has gone on for so long. Players come and go. Sometimes, they bloom late, sometimes they excel in a particular environment for a particular manager.

It's fair to say that Dyche has got way more out of him than Poyet did. But Poyet got more out of, say Bridcutt, than Dyche probably would have done. Again, right time, right manager, right formation, right environment.

Ash gone to another club and done really well. I don't really see why we need to go on about it

It’s part wind up, it reels them in.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It’s part wind up, it reels them in.

The OP was completely and utterly wrong, and a decent player was reviled, offered a shit contract, and left, and has then ripped up an awful lot of trees elsewhere.

This thread will be bounced every time Barnes scores. Not because we all love Ashley Barnes, but because the shit thread of the decade is worth revisiting as an exemplar of what may at some point be known as Spencificity. We could ask Sting to write some music for it.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I'm slightly confused why this thread has gone on for so long. Players come and go. Sometimes, they bloom late, sometimes they excel in a particular environment for a particular manager.

It's fair to say that Dyche has got way more out of him than Poyet did. But Poyet got more out of, say Bridcutt, than Dyche probably would have done. Again, right time, right manager, right formation, right environment.

Ash gone to another club and done really well. I don't really see why we need to go on about it

Your making the mistake of undermining a good and pleasing narrative with so-called facts. Schoolboy error.

 

[Weststander]

The OP was completely and utterly wrong, and a decent player was reviled, offered a shit contract, and left, and has then ripped up an awful lot of trees elsewhere.

This thread will be bounced every time Barnes scores. Not because we all love Ashley Barnes, but because the shit thread of the decade is worth revisiting as an exemplar of what may at some point be known as Spencificity. We could ask Sting to write some music for it.

I’m told the OP is still here, but had to come back under a new ID out of embarrassment. Being thick, I can’t work out who it is.