[Albion] Are YOU falling out of love with Roberto De Zerbi?

[hans kraay fan club]

Yes I meant the magnitude, but to the last point, thats the point of this conversation, we'll never know what we would have done under Potter in the Europa League. But based on the evidence I don't believe we would have, his approach was far more pragmatic.

I'm going to speculate that he would have achieved about the same - but probably been less fun along the way.

Potter's Albion on form controlled games better than RDZ's and were less susceptible to being broken on.

In that same group we'd still have won both Ajax games, because they were pretty poor. We might well have beaten AEK in the first game, as well. So, I'm confident we'd still have got through the group - perhaps not won it.

If we'd faced Roma in the next round, we'd still have lost - because they were better than us.

 

[Machiavelli]

Well I blame it on individual mistakes and the team being overawed by the occasion. Something you could put on RDZ, but I'm willing to say that his ability to lift our ambitions to those heights and deal with big occasions was a huge factor in getting there so give him the benefit of the doubt on that one.

Tactically, we really weren't awful on the day. We just went out to win the game, and I'm glad we did. On another day, we deal with the pressure better and go in at half-time either 1-0 up or with the score at 0-0 and it's a different result. That's football.

I'll also blame it on officials for the third goal, which I remain convinced shouldn't have counted (for offside, IIRC). If they hadn't been counted, then I very much doubt they'd have scored their fourth, which came immediately after. We would have had a chance in the second leg if it were two nil, and would have probably approached that game somewhat differently.

 

[Guinness Boy]

who are we meant to revere as a Demi God?

You, obviously

 

[Justice]

Well, firstly, I don't think he's actually made many 'costly mistakes' for Brighton.

Secondly, if 'mistakes' are made (for example) through taking risks in dangerous areas, or leaving defenders hopelessly exposed then clearly the manager does 'have (some) control' over that.

And lastly, if a manager doesn't have control over a player's form, who does?

Marseille away, Roma away, Fulham away three costly Dunk blunders right there. With his experience all three shouldn’t have happened IMO. Saturday under no pressure he’s passing straight to a Burnley player also passed to Diaz similarly at Liverpool. He’s not been great this season and that’s nothing to do with RDZ.

 

[EliasTaproot]

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Marseille away, Roma away, Fulham away three costly Dunk blunders right there. With his experience all three shouldn’t have happened IMO. Saturday under no pressure he’s passing straight to a Burnley player also passed to Diaz similarly at Liverpool. He’s not been great this season and that’s nothing to do with RDZ.

Marseilles away was a really poor mistake - no question.
Roma - a poor and particularly uncharacteristic error - BUT other teams don't leave one centre back completely exposed by a single long ball like that, so the manager DOES have 'some control' over that. And once Dunk gets to the ball ahead of Lukaku, other managers would have their CB drilled to smash into into Row Z. RDZ wouldn't ask for that - he'd expect Dunk to do exactly what he did (but do it better). So again, he does have 'some control' over the outcome.
Fulham - I don't recall it - the entire game was a shitshow.
Burnley and Liverpool - if a CB passes the ball around at the back, there is inevitably the chance of a dangerous loss of possession - the manager instructs them to take those risks, and would himself take responsibility* when it happens.



*or throw Baleba under the bus, like he did at Palace...

 

[pigmanovich]

Marseilles away was a really poor mistake - no question.
Roma - a poor and particularly uncharacteristic error - BUT other teams don't leave one centre back completely exposed by a single long ball like that, so the manager DOES have 'some control' over that. And once Dunk gets to the ball ahead of Lukaku, other managers would have their CB drilled to smash into into Row Z. RDZ wouldn't ask for that - he'd expect Dunk to do exactly what he did (but do it better). So again, he does have 'some control' over the outcome.
Fulham - I don't recall it - the entire game was a shitshow.
Burnley and Liverpool - if a CB passes the ball around at the back, there is inevitably the chance of a dangerous loss of possession - the manager instructs them to take those risks, and would himself take responsibility* when it happens.



*or throw Baleba under the boss, like he did at Palace...

Incidentally my defense of Dunk's performance for England against Belgium.

 

[AZ Gull]

....
But you've extrapolated certain things from you're bolded comment -- namely that he's unhappy with the level of support in the transfer market from the club. I think he's saying quite clearly that he wants to know what the transfer plans are for the summer before he commits to managing us for another season.
....

I also think that he is saying that very clearly - and that is the thing that astonishes me! And, frankly, I am amazed that so many people on here seem fine that that is his attitude.

His contract doesn't end this summer - he has a further two years left. He simply doesn't get to choose to opt out, based on who Albion sign or sell.

Can you imagine the reaction if Joao Pedro was interviewed and said "I'm not sure if I will play for Albion next season; I need to see who Albion buy in the summer before I decide whether I return for pre-season training."

 

[Bozza]

I also think that he is saying that very clearly - and that is the thing that astonishes me! And, frankly, I am amazed that so many people on here seem fine that that is his attitude.

His contract doesn't end this summer - he has a further two years left. He simply doesn't get to choose to opt out, based on who Albion sign or sell.

Can you imagine the reaction if Joao Pedro was interviewed and said "I'm not sure if I will play for Albion next season; I need to see who Albion buy in the summer before I decide whether I return for pre-season training."

Joao Pedro wants to pipe the f*** down - he'll have Mitoma (maybe) and March supplying him next season.

How many wingers does he want in the side?

The utter cheek of the bloke.

 

[AZ Gull]

Joao Pedro wants to pipe the f*** down - he'll have Mitoma (maybe) and March supplying him next season.

How many wingers does he want in the side?

The utter cheek of the bloke.

And yet Roberto De Zerbi's farts smell of perfume. Football fans, eh.

 

[Sarisbury Seagull]

I also think that he is saying that very clearly - and that is the thing that astonishes me! And, frankly, I am amazed that so many people on here seem fine that that is his attitude.

His contract doesn't end this summer - he has a further two years left. He simply doesn't get to choose to opt out, based on who Albion sign or sell.

Can you imagine the reaction if Joao Pedro was interviewed and said "I'm not sure if I will play for Albion next season; I need to see who Albion buy in the summer before I decide whether I return for pre-season training."

Bang on. He’s been talking like he is out of contract in the summer.

 

[Bozza]

I also think that he is saying that very clearly - and that is the thing that astonishes me! And, frankly, I am amazed that so many people on here seem fine that that is his attitude.

His contract doesn't end this summer - he has a further two years left. He simply doesn't get to choose to opt out, based on who Albion sign or sell.

Whilst agreeing wholeheartedly with all of this, I have always thought that there was a decent chance that De Zerbi could end up leaving the club by walking away, ie not going straight into another job.

And, whilst you're quite right, he doesn't have the absolute right to do that on a whim, I think Messrs Bloom and Barber are pragmatic enough that if De Zerbi just didn't want to be here any longer, they'd allow that to happen for the good of the club.

I'm sure, if such a thing did happen, the club would retain some sort of contractual right for compensation should he re-enter the workplace shortly after.

 

[Machiavelli]

I also think that he is saying that very clearly - and that is the thing that astonishes me! And, frankly, I am amazed that so many people on here seem fine that that is his attitude.

His contract doesn't end this summer - he has a further two years left. He simply doesn't get to choose to opt out, based on who Albion sign or sell.

Can you imagine the reaction if Joao Pedro was interviewed and said "I'm not sure if I will play for Albion next season; I need to see who Albion buy in the summer before I decide whether I return for pre-season training."

I'm less concerned about that than you (and others) are about it. I know his contract doesn't end in the summer, but contracts can be ended by both parties, and it's usually the club rather than the manager that ends it. He's in a position where he has been lauded by the fans here (less so over the last few months), has taken the club into Europe for the first time, achieved our highest position, is on course to achieve second or third best position this season, has attracted plaudits for his playing style (from Pep, etc), and there have been all sorts of rumours circulating about who will nab him in the next month or so. He's both egotistical and volatile ("I am volcanic"), and those qualities -- allied with a plethora of more 'positive' ones -- has aided him in his managerial journey. I've no problem that he views us as a stepping-stone on that journey and even articulates it for the very reason that our entire model is based on that.

He is also keenly aware that he's on to a good thing with us, and is bright enough to see what happened to his predecessor once he left us and to factor that in. He's also bright enough to know that if the club have the ambition they state, they'll need to: i, not sell their best players this window; and, ii, bring in more quality.
For several reasons (injuries is the main one for me), our squad hasn't enabled him to compete to the extent that he wants to this season, and I've no problem with him wanting greater clarity about transfers in and out during the summer.

Despite saying all this, if TB doesn't want him and/or his demands (and the way he airs them), I'll back that decision and get behind the next manager -- which is another way of saying my farts smell better than his, and his are only marginally preferable to Potter's.

 

[just my opinion]

I've watched this club since 1962 and RDZ has produced the best football I have ever seen us play, even with half the side missing he still has us top half, for sure he's disappointed with how things are because he's ambitious and wants success ~ he's also refreshingly honest ~ he doesn't duck questions even if the answers make us all uncomfortable at times. I doubt we'll ever have a better manager so I say keep him for as long as we can and don't let journo's who love to stir the pot for a cheap headline and clicks spoil it for us.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

I don't think that is correct way of rewording it. Trossard and Bissouma were clearly very talented players with a lot of potential when signed. Burn and March were ageing English players, who at the time were limited. I think Potter did very well to push Burn beyond his perceived ceiling, the same for RDZ with Solly.

Lots of players are clearly very talented and have lots of potential but don't develop as we expect, either because of their own issues or because they don't get on with a coach or the environment. There's no reason to dismiss half the players who improved under Potter (or any other manager) just because we could see they had that potential. A couple of those who we sold went notably downhill when they moved on. There are a couple of players over the last few years who we could have got a bit more out of as well, just to give a fair showing to the other side of that argument.

I think describing Solly March as an ageing player is a bit off as well, he was what, 25 when Potter took over? It's not like anybody was about to take him into the woods with a shotgun to put him out of his misery. He's been improving pretty consistently for years and finally found the goals we all thought he could/should be scoring last season.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

TBF @jackalbion specifically mentioned March who Potter regularly played out of position. RDZ stuck him at right wing / RF and just gave him the freedom to try and score and assist and off he went. It's the literal example of a player being improved by a change of head coach.

I do appreciate there are others across GPott and RDZ though.

How long had it been since Potter regularly played him at left back? I remember it in 2020/21 (when there weren't any particularly appealing options and March did a good job there until he pulled up injured against Liverpool), but I don't remember it too often once we signed Cucerella and then Estupinan. I guess maybe he played there again around that time that Cucerella and Burn had to play CB due to cards/injuries or whatever the reason was?

I'm happy to give credit to De Zerbi for getting those goals out of March, but I don't see it as a miraculous transformation of a player that people would happily have sold to a glue factory. I just rate him as a good player who's been improving for years.

I'm more interested in this as a general conversation than a pissing contest over individual managers, there are always particular personalities who react better to different managers/styles. I can see why March specifically would react well to somebody pushing him like De Zerbi would.

 

[Right Back]

De Zerbi transformed March. If anyone can share appearances and goals by March under Potter and De Zerbi.
At one point under Potter I was wondering if March would ever score a goal again.

 

[Weststander]

De Zerbi transformed March. If anyone can share appearances and goals by March under Potter and De Zerbi.
At one point under Potter I was wondering if March would ever score a goal again.

RDZ didn’t just give Solly the confidence to score, he transformed him into a player who truly believed he deserved to star in any and every PL game. Would love to hear Solly’s view on RDZ.

 

[jackalbion]

I think describing Solly March as an ageing player is a bit off as well, he was what, 25 when Potter took over? It's not like anybody was about to take him into the woods with a shotgun to put him out of his misery. He's been improving pretty consistently for years and finally found the goals we all thought he could/should be scoring last season.

Interesting because I disagree, I think just before potter came in he had a very decent spell of assists, at the front end of Hughton’s final season, and then regressed, to the point where he was providing very little going forward, which led to his conversion to LWB. It wasn’t until RDZ came in, until I thought this guy is only getting better.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Interesting because I disagree, I think just before potter came in he had a very decent spell of assists, at the front end of Hughton’s final season, and then regressed, to the point where he was providing very little going forward, which led to his conversion to LWB. It wasn’t until RDZ came in, until I thought this guy is only getting better.

To be fair, I'm not sure anybody was offering much going forward in the back end of Hughton's final season.

I tended to think that one of the reasons for playing March at LWB was a need to get as many people who might plausibly be expected to score or create a goal in the team as possible, given that individually none of them were all that good at finishing.

To avoid any doubt, I'm completely happy with the idea that March improved under De Zerbi.