[Albion] Are the club thin skinned and unable to take criticism?

[Talby]

We don't elect the owner, CEO, the board of directors, we don't have any vote or direct say over club policy or the running of the club. Your skin in the game is emotional, not tangible.

The example provided to support the FI or FO approach was that of an employer to an employee. I am not TB’s employee, nor am I PB’s.

Yes it’s an emotional attachment but I pay to support my team. I also have rights as a football fan which are written in legislation, club or other bodies documents.

I’d not want to work for an employer who doesn’t respect others opinions so why would I simply agree with everything the club does.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The club clearly made errors when implementing the new away ticket sanction process. They were found wanting by the IFO but did not accept the findings or (as they’re meant to) state the reasons they couldn’t.

In the meantime they changed their policy on named 1901 away day tickets and made sure the STH got an email confirming the purchase (rather than the lead purchaser).

They also didn’t follow their own appeal processes in a number of cases and, at times, ignore suggestions from the Police. Speaking to a couple of colleagues of PC Balkham it would appear the club’s non waivering position makes the relationship between Sussex police and fans strained. Trust issues. Sanctions are getting thrown around here there and everywhere.

So, yes there is some deserved criticism. Ignoring a body that had been set up to protect football fans in an independent manner is appalling, unprofessional and embarrassing.

Yeah we’re doing really well on the pitch and financially but the above still counts as important. We are fans/customers and whilst we should hold our hands up when we muck up, you’d hope the club would too.

When the time does come, If BHAFC vote to take some of our matches abroad then I expect that will get some criticism too.

Fair points. I agree with the issues, but I don't presently feel the need to dwell on them.

I hadn't realized the club have stopped engaging with a body set up to protect football fans. Is that the fan forum, where we got to vote for representatives? If so, I did vote for some candidates but I never felt the body represented me, and only ever skim read the minutes. If you are referring to a different body, I apologize. It passed me by.

So for me it is a matter of degree, and I have bored for England about this, passim. I don't want to be involved in club decision making right now. The Archer era is long gone. I am totally relaxed about bottle tops, and the monorail.

If I though the club was being miss-handled I'd be right in there. But it isn't.

Regarding issues like EPL matches played abroad, we are one club among many, and our club's clout is limited. If our supporters mobilized like so many did over the super-league, I would regard that as part of the process, and I don't imaging PBOBE will be leading on any of these wheezed. More likely he will be opposing.

Thanks for your thoughts, though.

 

[Talby]

With the greatest of respect, you are a rational, well paid man in late middle age who has seen the very worst of times this club has been through and goes to, what, one or two aways a season? If you were worried about how the club was being run I'd be very worried indeed. You are EXACTLY the sort of customer (sorry, fan) the club aims to please.

I'm here to tell you there are younger fans, less well off fans, fans who go everywhere away and ESPECIALLY young, less well off fans who do as many aways as possible who disagree. And their issues are nothing to do with dishonesty. They simply don't feel valued. Like it or not, that's a problem.

Fine points well made.

I don’t like the ‘if you don’t like it then f*** off’ approach at all. Football is expensive, travelling up and down the country to support your team but not feeling valued by the club is a massive shame.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

With the greatest of respect, you are a rational, well paid man in late middle age who has seen the very worst of times this club has been through and goes to, what, one or two aways a season? If you were worried about how the club was being run I'd be very worried indeed. You are EXACTLY the sort of customer (sorry, fan) the club aims to please.

I'm here to tell you there are younger fans, less well off fans, fans who go everywhere away and ESPECIALLY young, less well off fans who do as many aways as possible who disagree. And their issues are nothing to do with dishonesty. They simply don't feel valued. Like it or not, that's a problem.

Fair enough.

But they really should learn to speak for themselves.

I might even back them if I understood their grievances better. I'd be genuinely interested to read a synopsis.

A young fan who goes to most away matches would feel undervalued because......why?

 

[Bold Seagull]

The example provided to support the FI or FO approach was that of an employer to an employee. I am not TB’s employee, nor am I PB’s.

Yes it’s an emotional attachment but I pay to support my team. I also have rights as a football fan which are written in legislation, club or other bodies documents.

I’d not want to work for an employer who doesn’t respect others opinions so why would I simply agree with everything the club does.

I’m not saying you should, but just because the club doesn’t listen, or accept the criticism, doesn’t mean it’s operating with a thin skin.

More like a heavy hand maybe, but I see very little to suggest it’s not operating in a very objective, if anything lacking emotion and personality that would lend credit to the notion of a thin skin.

I think perhaps people are after the club having a bit more of a thin skinned reaction to things, rather than the cold calculated reasoned beast it is.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Fine points well made.

I don’t like the ‘if you don’t like it then f*** off’ approach at all. Football is expensive, travelling up and down the country to support your team but not feeling valued by the club is a massive shame.

May I ask you why you don't feel valued by the club?

 

[Talby]

Fair points. I agree with the issues, but I don't presently feel the need to dwell on them.

I hadn't realized the club have stopped engaging with a body set up to protect football fans. Is that the fan forum, where we got to vote for representatives? If so, I did vote for some candidates but I never felt the body represented me, and only ever skim read the minutes. If you are referring to a different body, I apologize. It passed me by.

So for me it is a matter of degree, and I have bored for England about this, passim. I don't want to be involved in club decision making right now. The Archer era is long gone. I am totally relaxed about bottle tops, and the monorail.

If I though the club was being miss-handled I'd be right in there. But it isn't.

Regarding issues like EPL matches played abroad, we are one club among many, and our club's clout is limited. If our supporters mobilized like so many did over the super-league, I would regard that as part of the process, and I don't imaging PBOBE will be leading on any of these wheezed. More likely he will be opposing.

Thanks for your thoughts, though.

It’s the independent football ombudsman.

The FAB - people put their names forward, the club sift through them to create a shortlist.

The FABs remit is relatively broad (based on the TofR - https://resources.brightonandhoveal...AFC-Fan-Advisory-Board-Terms-of-Reference.pdf )

But the club did not include the FAB in ticketing policy changes, PB has stated he doesn’t see the need for it and the group are given minimal time to engage at board level.

Based on the TofR the FAB could be great but it’s treated as a nuisance.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Fair enough.

But they really should learn to speak for themselves.

I might even back them if I understood their grievances better. I'd be genuinely interested to read a synopsis.

A young fan who goes to most away matches would feel undervalued because......why?

Well they are speaking up, but not necessarily on NSC. This is old fart central, in case you hadn't noticed.

Read Dogma. Read 'X' (i.e. Twitter) or Insta. Talk to fans in pubs before games.

I'll give you a specific example though. Fans of 'that type' banned on the say so of stewards versus nothing happening to the Liverpool fans who were in our away end at Anfield.

 

[Talby]

I’m not saying you should, but just because the club doesn’t listen, or accept the criticism, doesn’t mean it’s operating with a thin skin.

More like a heavy hand maybe, but I see very little to suggest it’s not operating in a very objective, if anything lacking emotion and personality that would lend credit to the notion of a thin skin.

I think perhaps people are after the club having a bit more of a thin skinned reaction to things, rather than the cold calculated reasoned beast it is.

I’ll thrown fragile male egos in the mix too then!

 

[Hotchilidog]

I buy a ticket I go to the game, I sing, shout and probably swear way too much. I neither feel neither over or undervalued. It's really not a complicated experience for me.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Well they are speaking up, but not necessarily on NSC. This is old fart central, in case you hadn't noticed.

Read Dogma. Read 'X' (i.e. Twitter) or Insta. Talk to fans in pubs before games.

Not that anybody would care about my opinion anyway, but I might give more of a shit about these people's grievances if they expressed them on platforms that didn't make me want to poke my own eyes out.

 

[Talby]

Well they are speaking up, but not necessarily on NSC. This is old fart central, in case you hadn't noticed.

Read Dogma. Read 'X' (i.e. Twitter) or Insta. Talk to fans in pubs before games.

I'll give you a specific example though. Fans of 'that type' banned on the say so of stewards versus nothing happening to the Liverpool fans who were in our away end at Anfield.

Yup, completely agree. There are plenty of stories which can be / have been verified.

Seeing Arsenal fans in the BHAFC away end at the Emirates. I know where they got their tickets from yet I need to show my loyalty by travelling across the country.

 

[Talby]

Not that anybody would care about my opinion anyway, but I might give more of a shit about these people's grievances if they expressed them on platforms that didn't make me want to poke my own eyes out.

But you are aware these forums are monitored by the club so you’d understand why.

 

[Springal]

But you are aware these forums are monitored by the club so you’d understand why.

Are you saying Bozza is doxing people to the club? Otherwise how can the club correlate a NSC username to a fan ? I refuse to believe that

 

[Gazwag]

Well they are speaking up, but not necessarily on NSC. This is old fart central, in case you hadn't noticed.

Read Dogma. Read 'X' (i.e. Twitter) or Insta. Talk to fans in pubs before games.

I'll give you a specific example though. Fans of 'that type' banned on the say so of stewards versus nothing happening to the Liverpool fans who were in our away end at Anfield.

I feel at the moment our fans are the easy target for the club to issue uncontestable bans without any recourse.

I also feel, if what was written on here is correct, last Wednesday night for example, the club/stewards/police ignored the away fans abuse and took the easy option to chuck out our fans or ignore that one of our fans was being singled out for abuse

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

But you are aware these forums are monitored by the club so you’d understand why.

A forum that the club monitor would seem to be the perfect place to raise concerns about the way the club behaves.

 

[Bozza]

With the greatest of respect, you are a rational, well paid man in late middle age who has seen the very worst of times this club has been through and goes to, what, one or two aways a season? If you were worried about how the club was being run I'd be very worried indeed. You are EXACTLY the sort of customer (sorry, fan) the club aims to please.

I'm here to tell you there are younger fans, less well off fans, fans who go everywhere away and ESPECIALLY young, less well off fans who do as many aways as possible who disagree. And their issues are nothing to do with dishonesty. They simply don't feel valued. Like it or not, that's a problem.

Why don't they feel valued and can you provide some examples of things the club could do to make them feel valued?

I'll be honest - it all sounds a bit needy to me, but I'm willing to have my mind changed.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It’s the independent football ombudsman.

The FAB - people put their names forward, the club sift through them to create a shortlist.

The FABs remit is relatively broad (based on the TofR - https://resources.brightonandhoveal...AFC-Fan-Advisory-Board-Terms-of-Reference.pdf )

But the club did not include the FAB in ticketing policy changes, PB has stated he doesn’t see the need for it and the group are given minimal time to engage at board level.

Based on the TofR the FAB could be great but it’s treated as a nuisance.

OK. Interesting.

I think @Guinness Boy is right. I became an OAP a few days ago. I can't be arsed with away games anymore (apart from the occasional trip to Wembley). I lived through our first hayday in the 70s, and the dark days at Gillingham. I still do the 160 mile round trip to home games, but I have somewhere nice to park thanks to a lovely chap on NSC who I'm now proud to call a friend. Without that, my dodgy knee and now raging sciatica would probably have turned me into a couch potato next season. I suspect next season will be my last as a season ticket holder (I have broken the news to my son who comes with me to most games. I hope he'll carry on without me if that's how it unfolds).

I find what we have now, compared with what I grew up with and endured as a teenager and young and 'mature' (OK, older) adult to be like emerging from a thick choking smog where oafs constantly flick me with wet towels into cool bright pasture, a sunny upland, where attractive young women serve me lovely pints of Harveys before I settle in a lovely seat to watch Elite Football. And it is Brighton and Hove Albion (something in my eye, now. Gimme a sec...)

So, with apologies, @guiness boy is right. I know nothing of the concerns of young people (which, I assume, includes you). My comments about the concerns of the young therefore will seem pompous, dismissive and twattish, I suppose.

On the Albion front, I have no fight left, and have nothing left to fight about. Well, till the inevitable relegation battle......

Best wishes with your battles. Thanks for informing, and please do keep informing. But I will make my own decisions about whether an issue is worthy of a fight, and may well comment if I feel it isn't.

 

[Moshe Gariani]

Totally understand the comments in this thread about Palace suddenly looking good. Could not possibly have imagined back in December that our trajectories of progress and status would have changed so much in their favour during past few months.

Summer transfer moves, and a strong managerial appointment for us, will set things up for a good tussle with them around mid-table again next season.

Palace will not finish 6th in the PL anytime soon and they won't finish top of a Europa League group in my lifetime.

 

[Bozza]

But you are aware these forums are monitored by the club so you’d understand why.

You're presenting that as a negative, when I'd suggest it's very much a positive.

The "monitoring" is actually two-way.

Firstly, people raise stuff on here that I read and, where I feel it merited, I use the relationships I have with the club to raise matters so they get considered quickly. The most recent example that comes to mind is when the on-sale date for an away game (Brentford, possibly) coincided with when many fans were going to be traveling to Rome. I contacted the club late on a weekend evening, and got an immediate response that the sales window would be changed to resolve that. I was able to post that on here, so those who had concerns could relax.

Secondly, as I think you're suggesting, the club itself pick up things on here. But when that happens, I'm often asked for further detail, or if I could help put a fan with a grievance in touch with the club so they can understand more detail and act as required.