Are conspiracy theories destroying democracy?

[The Truth]

And there was me thinking it was Al-Qaeda...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24650841

More and more people are waking up... BBC are scared, you can see from this article.

 

[hybrid_x]

a) democracy does not exist, anyone that truly believe the UK is a democracy is insanely ignorant.
b) CT cannot be all put in a basket. Diana, JFK, 911 (main ones) are seperate and need to be looked at seperately.
c) the BBC is highly toxic and a Government propaganda device.

 

[Driver8]

Yawn......

 

[KZNSeagull]

So the BBC reporting that Cambridge University are running a project to look at the impact of conspiracy theories on democracy that will not prove or disprove any of the theories, is them being scared is it?

I obviously cannot read the invisible bits in that article that you clearly can.

 

[Nibble]

The BBC World Service is one of the most positive, democratic, comprehensive and informative forces in broadcasting. Are they using the Shipping Forecast to transmit ideas into my swede? From now on as soon as I hear the fist bars of Sailing By I'm reaching for the tinfoil.

 

[Guinness Boy]

And there was me thinking it was Al-Qaeda...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24650841

More and more people are waking up... BBC are scared, you can see from this article.

So in summation, you are a conspiracy theorist posting a link to an article that mentions conspiracy theories on a board where no one else was interested to prove it's some kind of conspiracy. Ok then.....

 

[symyjym]

And there was me thinking it was Al-Qaeda...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24650841

More and more people are waking up... BBC are scared, you can see from this article.

Dedicated conspiracy theorists tend to agree with every conspiracy story that is fed to them, so they undermine them themselves by watering everything down with impossible made up fanciful stuff as well as what may be true, so it blurs the edges.

I've never heard a theorist debunk any conspiracies and I would have far more time for them if they could differentiate between with what may be true to BS.

You can have democracy without corruption, but we haven’t achieved that yet.

 

[LargeHadronZugzwang]

Depends how you define conspiracy. If you say "He/She is a conspiracist" to automatically mean 'He/She must be a nutter' (associated with Big Foot or Loch Ness Monster which has clearly been proven fake) then you maybe using language to easily dismiss someone for the purpose of political expediency, without asking any questions. Have a look at the following list;

Weapons of mass destruction lies concerning Iraq
Gulf of Tonkin affair
Iran Contra affair
Removal of Diego Garcia residents
Assasination of Mossadeq
Arming of Bin Laden
Matrix Churchill cover-up
Assasination of Allende
Media propaganda

You could call these conspiracies, but what is not in doubt, is that these events have occurred and some are ongoing. The BBC has got the issue arse about face. If anything, it is conspiracies perpetuated by Governments that will be the cause of undermining democracy, not so called fringe fruitcakes.

 

[symyjym]

Depends how you define conspiracy. If you say "He/She is a conspiracist" to automatically mean 'He/She must be a nutter' (associated with Big Foot or Loch Ness Monster which has clearly been proven fake) then you maybe using language to easily dismiss someone for the purpose of political expediency, without asking any questions. Have a look at the following list;

Weapons of mass destruction lies concerning Iraq
Gulf of Tonkin affair
Iran Contra affair
Removal of Diego Garcia residents
Assasination of Mossadeq
Arming of Bin Laden
Matrix Churchill cover-up
Assasination of Allende
Media propaganda

You could call these conspiracies, but what is not in doubt, is that these events have occurred and some are ongoing. The BBC has got the issue arse about face. If anything, it is conspiracies perpetuated by Governments that will be the cause of undermining democracy, not so called fringe fruitcakes.

I don't see the above list as conspiracies, they are more to do with global political awareness.

I personally don't buy into the 911 or 7/7 conspiracies, but the dedicated conspiracists will always use these in a way where they say these ones where true so the next one must be, and treat everything as fact.

With the 911 stories about a controlled demolition as an example, why would you have to do that after you have already flown two planes into them? You don’t have to take the buildings down as well for an excuse to go to war.

Both buildings collapsed at the point of impact from the weight of above falling onto the weakened area. But you can never persuade a theorist that you don’t see it their way.

I guess my point is that you can't have a reasoned debate with a dedicated conspiracy theorist and there is no compromise.

 

[TheJasperCo]

Problem with conspiracies is that they can't be proven or disproven. Both sides will stick to their guns in a futile battle to see who caqves in and admits defeat, which ultimately never happens.

 

[GreersElbow]

a) democracy does not exist, anyone that truly believe the UK is a democracy is insanely ignorant.
b) CT cannot be all put in a basket. Diana, JFK, 911 (main ones) are seperate and need to be looked at seperately.
c) the BBC is highly toxic and a Government propaganda device.

Hahaha, so funny. Do you have a tinfoil hat for each day or just one?

Problem with conspiracies is that they can't be proven or disproven. Both sides will stick to their guns in a futile battle to see who caqves in and admits defeat, which ultimately never happens.

The real problem with conspiracy theories are the ones who believe them. If you don't believe them, you're an ignorant fool who's blind. Especially the 9/11 'truthers'.

 

[symyjym]

Problem with conspiracies is that they can't be proven or disproven. Both sides will stick to their guns in a futile battle to see who caqves in and admits defeat, which ultimately never happens.

Not entirely, I have sat down with someone who is convinced the WTC collapse was a controlled demolition, and showed them on youtube that the buildings clearly collapsed directly at the point of impact, from the weight of above falling onto the weakened area.

The visual evidence of structural failure is clear for all to see but they do not accept this as proof.

The trouble is people make very good money out of conspiracies, and deception comes in all forms with different motivations.

 

[Goldstone76]

I don't see the above list as conspiracies, they are more to do with global political awareness.

I personally don't buy into the 911 or 7/7 conspiracies, but the dedicated conspiracists will always use these in a way where they say these ones where true so the next one must be, and treat everything as fact.

With the 911 stories about a controlled demolition as an example, why would you have to do that after you have already flown two planes into them? You don’t have to take the buildings down as well for an excuse to go to war.

Both buildings collapsed at the point of impact from the weight of above falling onto the weakened area. But you can never persuade a theorist that you don’t see it their way.

I guess my point is that you can't have a reasoned debate with a dedicated conspiracy theorist and there is no compromise.

I guess your the world's leading authority on the subject and have not taken the time to actually open your mind to the idea that things are not what they appear. Try this to start with then watch the whole doc then please tell us how all of these experts can be wrong? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrIT8PXOUkA

 

[KZNSeagull]

I guess your the world's leading authority on the subject and have not taken the time to actually open your mind to the idea that things are not what they appear. Try this to start with then watch the whole doc then please tell us how all of these experts can be wrong? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrIT8PXOUkA

I do not know about anyone else, but i cannot take anything seriously that has a spelling mistake in the first frame. So that is as far as I got.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

The propensity of some people to believe in conspiracy theories is exactly the same phenomenon as the propensity of disaffected individuals in some areas of society to believe in the imminent second coming of the Messiah. No amount of logic will turn them away from their belief that "something isn't right with the world" and that "soon, all will be revealed".

 

[symyjym]

I guess your the world's leading authority on the subject and have not taken the time to actually open your mind to the idea that things are not what they appear. Try this to start with then watch the whole doc then please tell us how all of these experts can be wrong? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrIT8PXOUkA

Yep it is my understanding that these "experts" are not as credible as they make out.

The video below clearly shows that the building collapsed at the point of impact and at its weakest point. How did they know what floor the planes were going to fly into to place these explosives to detinate and cause this effect?

At 2:19 on the video is a nice close up.

 

[Goldstone76]

Yep it is my understanding that these "experts" are not as credible as they make out.

The video below clearly shows that the building collapsed at the point of impact and at its weakest point. How did they know what floor the planes were going to fly into to place these explosives to detinate and cause this effect?

At 2:19 on the video is a nice close up.

Im guessing your not aware that explosives can be detonated in a number of ways. A pre set option to detonate from floor x to floor z then from below x in sequence for example. Can you explain the existence of nano thermite or why building 7 freefalled and it wasnt even hit. Please dont use the excuse that fire made building 7 collapse as that has never happened and fire isnt hot enough to turn metal to butter.

Heres a list of which agencys were in building 7..

Tenant Square Feet Floor Industry
Salomon Smith Barney 1,202,900 GRND,1-6,13,18-46 Financial Institution
IRS Regional Council 90,430 24, 25 Government
U.S. Secret Service 85,343 9,10 Government
C.I.A. N/A N/A Government
American Express Bank International 106,117 7,8,13 Financial Institution
Standard Chartered Bank 111,398 10,13,26,27 Financial Institution
Provident Financial Management 9,000 7,13 Financial Institution
ITT Hartford Insurance Group 122,590 19-21 [Insurance]
First State Management Group, Inc 4,000 21 Insurance
Federal Home Loan Bank 47,490 22 Financial Institution
NAIC Securities 22,500 19 Insurance
Securities & Exchange Commission 106,117 11,12,13 Government
Mayor's Office of Emergency Mgmt 45,815 23 Government

Now question what documents and 'potential evidence' was lost because of building 7's demolishment. Apart from a reason to go to war against the so called terrorists it also meant a huge income to defence contractors (Rumsfeld for example was a beneficiary) but also it meant the bringing in of the Homeland Security Act that has in turn made the USA a police state by default. As the years roll by we hear that the USA is spying on everyone.. that there is a subculture of government dealings that is anything but democratic. We live in a worse place now than pre 911. For those who are open minded enough to ask questions of government and for the government to not 'open the books' we can only assume they have something to hide.

“He was thinking about invading Iraq in 1999, It was on his mind. He said to me: ‘One of the keys to being seen as a great leader is to be seen as a commander-in-chief.’ And he said, ‘My father had all this political capital built up when he drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait and he wasted it.’ He said, ‘If I have a chance to invade….if I had that much capital, I’m not going to waste it. I’m going to get everything passed that I want to get passed and I’m going to have a successful presidency.” Journalist and author Mickey Herskowitz

Herskowitz said that Bush expressed frustration at a lifetime as an underachiever in the shadow of an accomplished father. In aggressive military action, he saw the opportunity to emerge from his father’s shadow. The moment, Herskowitz said, came in the wake of the September 11 attacks. “Suddenly, he’s at 91 percent in the polls, and he’d barely crawled out of the bunker.”

Make of the facts both individually and as a sum as you will.. facts are facts and the most glaring fact of all is the cost of the 911 Commission report of the events that surrounded 911..

Amount of money allocated for the 1986 Challenger disaster investigation: $75 million
Amount of money allocated for the 2004 Columbia disaster investigation: $50 million
Amount of money allocated for Clinton-Lewinsky investigation: $40 million
Amount of money allocated for the 9/11 Commission: $14 million

 

[Goldstone76]

The propensity of some people to believe in conspiracy theories is exactly the same phenomenon as the propensity of disaffected individuals in some areas of society to believe in the imminent second coming of the Messiah. No amount of logic will turn them away from their belief that "something isn't right with the world" and that "soon, all will be revealed".

So everything the government say is true?

How about this..

I remember this being told as fact on the front pages ..

1990 Testimony of Nayirah: A 15-year-old girl named “Nayirah” testified before the U.S. Congress that she had seen Iraqi soldiers pulling Kuwaiti babies from incubators, causing them to die. The testimony helped gain major public support for the 1991 Gulf War, but — despite protests that the dispute of this story was itself a conspiracy theory — it was later discovered that the testimony was false. The public relations firm Hill & Knowlton, which was in the employ of Citizens for a Free Kuwait, had arranged the testimony. It turned out that she had taken acting lessons on request of the CIA and was actually the niece of a major politician in Kuwait. Nayirah was later disclosed to be Nayirah al-Sabah, daughter of Saud bin Nasir Al-Sabah, Kuwaiti ambassador to the USA.

or this..

Asbestos: Between 1930 and 1960, manufacturers did all they could to prevent the link between asbestos and respiratory diseases, including cancer, becoming known, so they could avoid prosecution. American workers had in fact sued the Johns Manville company as far back as 1932, but it was not until 1962 that epidemiologists finally established beyond any doubt what company bosses had known for a long time – asbestos causes cancer.

 

[beorhthelm]

Im guessing your not aware that explosives can be detonated in a number of ways. A pre set option to detonate from floor x to floor z then from below x in sequence for example. Can you explain the existence of nano thermite or why building 7 freefalled and it wasnt even hit. Please dont use the excuse that fire made building 7 collapse as that has never happened and fire isnt hot enough to turn metal to butter.

make up your mind, was it explosives of thermite?

if explosives can you please explain the lack of any explosions at the time of collaspe. if termite can you please explain the lack of visual effect of thermite, or indeed present actual evidence of its use beyond inference from pictures of plasma cutting taken weeks after the event (it should be easy, there would be tons of the stuff and easily spread over the city, to be found and indepedently verified as thermite).

could you also confirm you believe that the fire department was in on the conspriacy to bring down WTC7, as they decided the fire was too strong to tackle and withdrew; and provide your evidence that the fire wasnt hot enough to create sufficient structral fatigue to precipitate a collapse.

you might also like to tell us roughly, as a indication of their expertise, what % of the US architects and engineers have signed up to the AE911 group (we'll overlook anyone with a degree can signup even if not architects or engineers. it wont make any meaningful signficant difference to the number).

 

[symyjym]

You are going well off point Goldstone76;

You briefly made up your excuse to my question as to why did the building collapse at the point of where the planes hit them "a pre set option to detonate from floor x to floor z then from below x in sequence", and then swiftly went onto WTC7 but please see below for those answers:



A big point every truther misses out on is that they didn't have to demolish main towers to go to war, the planes crashing into them were enough.

If the government were behind the planes crashing into WTC, what do they gain in including a highly complicated demolition job? There was nothing further to be gained.

Not all demolitions go to plan anyway, so the risk would have been too high for it to fail leaving tons of explosives in a structurally unsafe building.

And traces of thermite can be explained, but it burns too slowly for a controlled demolition.

I don't believe yanks could pull 911 off even if they wanted to, they balls up every operation they get involved with. Even in the Bin Ladin raid they lost a helicopter.