[Albion] Anyone still in denial?

[vagabond]

I just think people need to be calmer, not look for someone to blame at every bad patch, see the bigger picture

Good luck with that [emoji38]

 

[Icy Gull]

Haven't followed his career since - in fact I've hardly even heard of him since he left us. I do wonder if his ideas would have worked with better players - on balance I think probably not, but ............................

Hyypia then took one final swipe at management. In August 2015, ahead of the following season, he was named FC Zurich’s manager. But with just three matches to play in his first season in charge, Zurich were stone-dead last in the Swiss Super League. With a 30% win rate, Hyypia was duly fired and Zurich were relegated. They had finished in the bottom half of the table only twice in the ten years prior to Hyypia’s arrival and had not been relegated to the second division since 1988. They were promoted immediately the following season.

 

[GT49er]

Hyypia then took one final swipe at management. In August 2015, ahead of the following season, he was named FC Zurich’s manager. But with just three matches to play in his first season in charge, Zurich were stone-dead last in the Swiss Super League. With a 30% win rate, Hyypia was duly fired and Zurich were relegated. They had finished in the bottom half of the table only twice in the ten years prior to Hyypia’s arrival and had not been relegated to the second division since 1988. They were promoted immediately the following season.

So, not great then?

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Fingers crossed.

We're currently 5th from bottom and considerably closer to 3rd from bottom than 10th.

But if you’re a results person what does it matter whether your 10th after 10 games, 20, 30, surely the only statistic that matter is the table at 38 games?

Also, when you say ‘considerably’ we’re 6 points above 18th, 9 points behind 10th. Not sure I would call 3 points considerable unless I was prone to exaggeration.

 

[Stat Brother]

Without doubt all season we’ve looked like we belong. Countless neutral pundits have constantly said it. Pep etc have - Pep keeps referencing Mr Potter and us in random pre match press conferences. We belong alright, we are just a work in progress that won’t always work.

Don't get me confused.
I only came into this with a slightly more nuanced opinion on the 'top 10' v 'read the small print' silliness that pops up every once in a while.

I even said I think we do belong, so much so I felt that should be reflected in the season tracker and most definitively should be going forward.

Perhaps a 50 point tracker, or 45 point tracker if not feeling so brave.

 

[Perfidious Albion]

It seems to some people life is either glorious or absolute rubbish, with nothing in between. We can enjoy and savour a fine win. So we should, but we are not out of the woods yet by a long way. Nobody is “too good to go down”
We can see we have the makings of a fine team, especially with the quality of the young players introduced. The team is not yet ready but it is encouraging.
I don’t believe we will go down but we have to be careful still.

 

[Stat Brother]

But if you’re a results person what does it matter whether your 10th after 10 games, 20, 30, surely the only statistic that matter is the table at 38 games?

Also, when you say ‘considerably’ we’re 6 points above 18th, 9 points behind 10th. Not sure I would call 3 points considerable unless I was prone to exaggeration.

You didn't expect me to go to all the trouble to look up the current table, did you?


It's better to use results than a 'should of won' based structure.

 

[Sheebo]

Don't get me confused.
I only came into this with a slightly more nuanced opinion on the 'top 10' v 'read the small print' silliness that pops up every once in a while.

I even said I think we do belong, so much so I felt that should be reflected in the season tracker and most definitively should be going forward.

Perhaps a 50 point tracker, or 45 point tracker if not feeling so brave.

I find even the simplest of posts by you confusing matey

 

[Robinjakarta]

Just noticed this thread still going. Isn't the OP's name the answer to his/her question?

 

[Swansman]

Many, it would be nice for Newcastle to follow Huddersfield.

Don't get me wrong I do feel the 'top ten'ers are far more wronger than the 'well if you actually read the small print'ers.

But the fact remains the club has talked of progression, and despite looking fantastically well placed, it's still only a quirk of the fixture list, (playing an abysmal Newcastle side, who at the time was one point below the Albion) that has saved them from being 4th from bottom 3 points above Fulham in mid March.

If you spend more time watching football and less time watching scoreboards you'll find progression. Progression that is eventually likely to find its way to the scoreboards as well.

The Top 10 plan has been implemented for over a year and yet there are only 3 clubs in the 'might still get relegated' conversation.

Over a year means little when speaking long-term.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

You didn't expect me to go to all the trouble to look up the current table, did you?


It's better to use results than a 'should of won' based structure.

Or just use your eyes, watch the games and performances. ‘Should have won’ is only a statement used if someone’s only measure is results.

Results can also be a curse and mask a lack of performance. Just ask Watford, Bournemouth and Sheff Utd. They all enjoyed being 10th.

 

[drew]

If you spend more time watching football and less time watching scoreboards you'll find progression. Progression that is eventually likely to find its way to the scoreboards as well.



Over a year means little when speaking long-term.

I would also add that had we converted 5 of our 11 draws into wins, ie 5 more goals scored in games where we were well on top then we would be in 10th place!!

Small margins.

 

[Stat Brother]

Or just use your eyes, watch the games and performances. ‘Should have won’ is only a statement used if someone’s only measure is results.

Results can also be a curse and mask a lack of performance. Just ask Watford, Bournemouth and Sheff Utd. They all enjoyed being 10th.

Again I think you're looking for a disagreement that just isn't there.


My main bugbear with pretty much the entirety of Albion 1.2's time in the Premier League (excluding that 1-0 Nov) is the complete inability to join the teams next rung up from relegation.

Most recently it was in the build up to the palace game.
The club is back in that position yet again, fingers crossed this time they can punch through and stay there, despite the fixture list suggesting otherwise.

Doing so would show the progression that would back up the initial 'Top 10' statement, a year or so after it was first made.

 

[Seasidesage]

No they didn't, that's correct.
What's also missed is the goal is consistent Top 10 with Premier League security, not just 'results went our way once' or a particularly bad Premier League.

As the stated aim is Top 10 then the progression towards that aim needs to be evident.
What those who instantly rush to discredit top tenners do is fail to note that despite all the lovely football the club is in exactly the same place it was since long before, during, and subsequently after the announcement.

A win over a really poor Newcastle doesn't hold up for long when compared with so many other results all of which have been a million miles away from progression towards top 10 sustainability.

I'm surprised that a normally quite thoughtful poster like you feels this way. I'd say that while results clearly do not equate to a top ten finish performances do. We have outplayed a large part of this division this season but failed to score the goals our performances deserved. This is obviously an important part of the plan but it is only an element. Other factors include, a style of play that is both effective and can be adjusted, tick, a squad of good young up and coming players with a clear succession plan and competition for places, not 100% complete but tick, emerging stars across the pitch, tick.

Houghton is not the benchmark for any of this. There is a clear plan in place to recruit young up and coming players, sell some to finance an increased playing budget, produce clear succession planning for each position while securing squad depth and incrementally improve towards a top ten goal. We are and have clearly been doing just that for sometime.

First team are playing good if imperfect football and have lowered the average age dramatically while improving both the quality and depth of the squad. We are on track to increase our points tally from the year before which is a decent arbiter of progress as any. Sales are coming but we have cover in most areas and emerging players who have similar levels of potential in most cases. U23's when at full strength are as strong as they have been for many years and our 'reserves' in the main looked a class above most of the FL teams they have played in the various cup competitions. U18's and 16's have some very special talents being nurtured some of whom may become very good players indeed.

This summer we will hopefully start to move on some of those who've reached the end of their journey with us but in the main they will be replaced with younger emerging talent already here and hopefully freeing up some budget for real game changers. A sale or two of our best talent will not be as painful as in previous years as if say Bissouma moves on we already have Moder and Moses coming through. This is the case in most positions in the squad with only the strikers a problem area currently.

Add to that, the return of Solly, a fit Lamptey, a 2nd season White, Webster who's really trained on, an emerging McA and heaven forbid a new striker or two and the top ten isn't such an unachievable dream? That's a very much glass full assessment obviously and a lot could go wrong but its not impossible by any means...

 

[Stat Brother]

I would also add that had we converted 5 of our 11 draws into wins, ie 5 more goals scored in games where we were well on top then we would be in 10th place!!

Small margins.

Last year the bulk of Sheffield Utd's points came from 1 goal wins, much like West Ham's are this season

Those small margins cut both ways.


i'm loving what the club is doing, I'm equally excited by the seemingly obvious progression through yoof and recruitment.
Such as Biss' almost needs to be sold because of the 3 other, younger players, looking at that position.
Not to mention they in turn seem to have another kid looking at them - absolute madness.

It's that kind of stability I feel 'Top 10' was alluding too, not a flying by the seat of your pants and hoping to catch lightening in a bottle.

Making being 5th from bottom only 1 point better than THAT Newcastle team all the more frustrating.

 

[dangull]

Many, it would be nice for Newcastle to follow Huddersfield.

Don't get me wrong I do feel the 'top ten'ers are far more wronger than the 'well if you actually read the small print'ers.

But the fact remains the club has talked of progression, and despite looking fantastically well placed, it's still only a quirk of the fixture list, (playing an abysmal Newcastle side, who at the time was one point below the Albion) that has saved them from being 4th from bottom 3 points above Fulham in mid March.

We have won the last 2 games, and the form table in the last 10 games would put us in the top 6 I think. There has definitely been an improvement in form, and it would look even more impressive if the daylight robbery games of Palace and WBA had got the points they deserved.

 

[Stat Brother]

We have won the last 2 games, and the form table in the last 10 games would put us in the top 6 I think. There has definitely been an improvement in form, and it would look even more impressive if the daylight robbery games of Palace and WBA had got the points they deserved.

If the league was decided by deserved points we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[vagabond]

I'm surprised that a normally quite thoughtful poster like you feels this way. I'd say that while results clearly do not equate to a top ten finish performances do. We have outplayed a large part of this division this season but failed to score the goals our performances deserved. This is obviously an important part of the plan but it is only an element. Other factors include, a style of play that is both effective and can be adjusted, tick, a squad of good young up and coming players with a clear succession plan and competition for places, not 100% complete but tick, emerging stars across the pitch, tick.

Houghton is not the benchmark for any of this. There is a clear plan in place to recruit young up and coming players, sell some to finance an increased playing budget, produce clear succession planning for each position while securing squad depth and incrementally improve towards a top ten goal. We are and have clearly been doing just that for sometime.

First team are playing good if imperfect football and have lowered the average age dramatically while improving both the quality and depth of the squad. We are on track to increase our points tally from the year before which is a decent arbiter of progress as any. Sales are coming but we have cover in most areas and emerging players who have similar levels of potential in most cases. U23's when at full strength are as strong as they have been for many years and our 'reserves' in the main looked a class above most of the FL teams they have played in the various cup competitions. U18's and 16's have some very special talents being nurtured some of whom may become very good players indeed.

This summer we will hopefully start to move on some of those who've reached the end of their journey with us but in the main they will be replaced with younger emerging talent already here and hopefully freeing up some budget for real game changers. A sale or two of our best talent will not be as painful as in previous years as if say Bissouma moves on we already have Moder and Moses coming through. This is the case in most positions in the squad with only the strikers a problem area currently.

Add to that, the return of Solly, a fit Lamptey, a 2nd season White, Webster who's really trained on, an emerging McA and heaven forbid a new striker or two and the top ten isn't such an unachievable dream? That's a very much glass full assessment obviously and a lot could go wrong but its not impossible by any means...

[emoji122][emoji122][emoji122]

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Anyone still in denial that we are not going down this season?

It's been on the cards for months and Fulhams results today has sealed it. They are on the march and we are in freefall. Hard to see where our next point is coming from.

I've been pointing it out for months that this clueless ****wit is taking us down, yet everybody else seemed in denial. I think most people have come round to realising now that our Premier league days are coming to an end.

Potter will have to be replaced next season as he's clearly lost the dressing room. He's the most uninspiring manager we've ever had bar Hyppia. Churns out the same twaddle every week in his pressers, sucking through his teeth and telling us we are learning...which is clearly bullshit.

Turning some decent players into absolute donkeys, coaching out the ability to score goals, random substitutions, playing Dan Burn every week which should be a criminal offence.

Can't think of anyone who has damaged this club more since Belotti and Archer.

No.

 

[Bodian]

No.

Top bounce. Well done!