[Albion] Anyone still in denial?

[GT49er]

I think after the Sami Hyypia experience some people looked at Potter's CV and thought history might repeat itself.

Not from his CV, but I did wonder a bit at some of GP's team selections and playing people in strange positions, especially in some of those dark days last year before we started winning a few, if there wasn't a bit of the Hyypia about him - the difference being that GP wasn't trying to get his inventive ideas to work with Forster-Kaskey and Gary Gardner in midfield and Fenelon ad O'Gravy spearheading the attack! And I still wonder a bit!!

(and no, I'm not a Potter-outer, and I think we're heading in the right direction).

 

[JBizzle]

Not from his CV, but I did wonder a bit at some of GP's team selections and playing people in strange positions, especially in some of those dark days last year before we started winning a few, if there wasn't a bit of the Hyypia about him - the difference being that GP wasn't trying to get his inventive ideas to work with Forster-Kaskey and Gary Gardner in midfield and Fenelon ad O'Gravy spearheading the attack! And I still wonder a bit!!

(and no, I'm not a Potter-outer, and I think we're heading in the right direction).

I've said this many times before, but the problem Hyypia faced was coming in at a time when the budget strings had been cut drastically and we didn't get his choice of experienced assistant in Sammy Lee. Whether he would have succeeded in better times, I don't know, but what I do know is that when he left, the whole transfer strategy left with him too. It's one of the reasons Bloom didn't sack him (in my opinion).

In the main (bar that elusive strikers everyone talks about) Potter has very much been backed in the transfer market.

To add, Potter is also clearly a better coach that Hyypia in my mind too

 

[Icy Gull]

Not from his CV, but I did wonder a bit at some of GP's team selections and playing people in strange positions, especially in some of those dark days last year before we started winning a few, if there wasn't a bit of the Hyypia about him - the difference being that GP wasn't trying to get his inventive ideas to work with Forster-Kaskey and Gary Gardner in midfield and Fenelon ad O'Gravy spearheading the attack! And I still wonder a bit!!

(and no, I'm not a Potter-outer, and I think we're heading in the right direction).

Interesting but nothing he’s done since suggests he wasn’t totally inept has it?

 

[Stat Brother]

To be fair, no-one from within the club said that the aim was top 10 this season. It was part of a longer-term strategy. There's an interview from (I think) Football Focus where Barber talks about it. Possibly as part of another five-year plan?

Outside of that, I agree with the majority of your post. People need a bit of patience and allow Potter to learn on the job, which it looks like he is doing (as well as the players now finding the back of the net!)

No they didn't, that's correct.
What's also missed is the goal is consistent Top 10 with Premier League security, not just 'results went our way once' or a particularly bad Premier League.

As the stated aim is Top 10 then the progression towards that aim needs to be evident.
What those who instantly rush to discredit top tenners do is fail to note that despite all the lovely football the club is in exactly the same place it was since long before, during, and subsequently after the announcement.

A win over a really poor Newcastle doesn't hold up for long when compared with so many other results all of which have been a million miles away from progression towards top 10 sustainability.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

No they didn't, that's correct.
What's also missed is the goal is consistent Top 10 with Premier League security, not just 'results went our way once' or a particularly bad Premier League.

As the stated aim is Top 10 then the progression towards that aim needs to be evident.
What those who instantly rush to discredit top tenners do is fail to note that despite all the lovely football the club is in exactly the same place it was since long before, during, and subsequently after the announcement.

A win over a really poor Newcastle doesn't hold up for long when compared with so many other results all of which have been a million miles away from progression towards top 10 sustainability.

We’ve not been in this league for 4 full seasons yet.

How many teams with similar ambition and deeper pockets have not made is passed 2 or 3 seasons?

 

[Stat Brother]

We’ve not been in this league for 4 full seasons yet.

How many teams with similar ambition and deeper pockets have not made is passed 2 or 3 seasons?

Many, it would be nice for Newcastle to follow Huddersfield.

Don't get me wrong I do feel the 'top ten'ers are far more wronger than the 'well if you actually read the small print'ers.

But the fact remains the club has talked of progression, and despite looking fantastically well placed, it's still only a quirk of the fixture list, (playing an abysmal Newcastle side, who at the time was one point below the Albion) that has saved them from being 4th from bottom 3 points above Fulham in mid March.

 

[The Grockle]

I'm glad my optimism or in the eyes of the OP, denial doesn't appear to have been misplaced. We are probably only two wins from safety now, hopefully we can pick up some more points in the upcoming tough fixtures to maintain our gap on Newcastle and fulham.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Many, it would be nice for Newcastle to follow Huddersfield.

Don't get me wrong I do feel the 'top ten'ers are far more wronger than the 'well if you actually read the small print'ers.

But the fact remains the club has talked of progression, and despite looking fantastically well placed, it's still only a quirk of the fixture list, (playing an abysmal Newcastle side, who at the time was one point below the Albion) that has saved them from being 4th from bottom 3 points above Fulham in mid March.

So we’ve beaten Leeds, Liverpool, Spurs, Southampton and Newcastle this year - why does it matter who you beat, a win is a win. When did we become a side that says ‘oh, it’s only Newcastle...’ For 2021 fixtures only we’re 7th or something? 2 games in that run in particularly were utterly ridiculous defeats.

West Ham finished a point below us last season. Progress isn’t just points, there are finer balances at work of belief, confidence, spirit. Football really isn’t as simple as incremental gains. We haven’t got the points to demonstrate a gain, but you’d have to be a blind man not to spot it.

 

[Stat Brother]

So we’ve beaten Leeds, Liverpool, Spurs, Southampton and Newcastle this year - why does it matter who you beat, a win is a win. When did we become a side that says ‘oh, it’s only Newcastle...’ For 2021 fixtures only we’re 7th or something? 2 games in that run in particularly were utterly ridiculous defeats.

West Ham finished a point below us last season. Progress isn’t just points, there are finer balances at work of belief, confidence, spirit. Football really isn’t as simple as incremental gains. We haven’t got the points to demonstrate a gain, but you’d have to be a blind man not to spot it.

Overall I'm not disagreeing with you.


FWIW, (nothing) as said my interpretation of the 'top 10' comments were precisely all about incremental gains.
That's why the high water mark was set at something achievable.

I think the hierarchy at the club would view a West Hamesque 21/22 with a degree of concern due to the money required to back that up.


Top 10, nice, safe, easy to plan around and a great base from which to challenge for the Everton Cup and so on.


But the elephant in the room is:-

Saturday at 19:59, Newcastle were only 1 point worse than the Albion (despite the obvious generational chasm between the clubs from 20:01 onwards) and they were only 3 points better than Fulham.

The Top 10 plan has been implemented for over a year and yet there are only 3 clubs in the 'might still get relegated' conversation.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Overall I'm not disagreeing with you.


FWIW, (nothing) as said my interpretation of the 'top 10' comments were precisely all about incremental gains.
That's why the high water mark was set at something achievable.

I think the hierarchy at the club would view a West Hamesque 21/22 with a degree of concern due to the money required to back that up.


Top 10, nice, safe, easy to plan around and a great base from which to challenge for the Everton Cup and so on.


But the elephant in the room is:-

Saturday at 19:59, Newcastle were only 1 point worse than the Albion (despite the obvious generational chasm between the clubs from 20:01 onwards) and they were only 3 points better than Fulham.

The Top 10 plan has been implemented for over a year and yet there are only 3 clubs in the 'might still get relegated' conversation.

That’s all well and good, but we are only 9 points from being 10th. The ‘2 utterly ridiculous defeats’ reversed and a deserved goal against Villa - we would be 10th. That doesn’t even take into account outplaying MU at home and losing AFTER the final whistle and 10mins of injury time. We’re not there, Villa are, less convincing than us I might add, but those are the breaks.

I wouldn’t look at Newcastle, Burnley, Saints, Palace and think ‘they could easily be 10th’, but whether it’s rose tinted glasses or not but our performances we could easily be sitting 10th right now.

 

[vagabond]

Or they do grasp it, but they deliberately misquote it to further some sort of argument that they want to put forward

Sadly true.

 

[Stat Brother]

That’s all well and good, but we are only 9 points from being 10th. The ‘2 utterly ridiculous defeats’ reversed and a deserved goal against Villa - we would be 10th. That doesn’t even take into account outplaying MU at home and losing AFTER the final whistle and 10mins of injury time. We’re not there, Villa are, less convincing than us I might add, but those are the breaks.

I wouldn’t look at Newcastle, Burnley, Saints, Palace and think ‘they could easily be 10th’, but whether it’s rose tinted glasses or not but our performances we could easily be sitting 10th right now.

But the team aren't.

Everyone can if and but their way through the whole season, every season, and their team would be considerably higher.

I'll Eden a guess relegation doesn't fall into the Top 10 remit, yet here we are AGAIN.

Now I've never believed the Albion would get relegated, I got uppity with [MENTION=3734]Giraffe[/MENTION] at the start of the season as I felt we all need to aspire to more than tracking the clubs ability to not get relegated.
I will be getting titsy with G-Man again at the start of next season, for exactly the same reason.

The second step, after joining the club, is looking like we belong.

 

[vagabond]

As the stated aim is Top 10 then the progression towards that aim needs to be evident.
What those who instantly rush to discredit top tenners do is fail to note that despite all the lovely football the club is in exactly the same place it was since long before, during, and subsequently after the announcement.

A win over a really poor Newcastle doesn't hold up for long when compared with so many other results all of which have been a million miles away from progression towards top 10 sustainability.

If one is looking only at results and nothing else maybe.

But that is overlooking all the positive long term trends that are being built by our club, with smart long term recruitment, a pathway for our u23s into the first team (eg, Sanchez), ability to compete with nearly any team in the league and be in pretty much every game.

And you’d have to have a heart of stone not to admit we’ve been robbed in quite a few games. To throw out all the good because we were smash and grabbed by Palace seems a bit short term thinking.

 

[Questions]

Not from his CV, but I did wonder a bit at some of GP's team selections and playing people in strange positions, especially in some of those dark days last year before we started winning a few, if there wasn't a bit of the Hyypia about him - the difference being that GP wasn't trying to get his inventive ideas to work with Forster-Kaskey and Gary Gardner in midfield and Fenelon ad O'Gravy spearheading the attack! And I still wonder a bit!!

(and no, I'm not a Potter-outer, and I think we're heading in the right direction).

When Hypia started everyone was happy with his style. It was fun for a while........... until we started losing. But by god this side it at a different level

 

[vagabond]

That’s all well and good, but we are only 9 points from being 10th. The ‘2 utterly ridiculous defeats’ reversed and a deserved goal against Villa - we would be 10th. That doesn’t even take into account outplaying MU at home and losing AFTER the final whistle and 10mins of injury time. We’re not there, Villa are, less convincing than us I might add, but those are the breaks.

I wouldn’t look at Newcastle, Burnley, Saints, Palace and think ‘they could easily be 10th’, but whether it’s rose tinted glasses or not but our performances we could easily be sitting 10th right now.

Plus the season’s not over yet...

Have to be careful making predictions as we’re not safe right now, but it’s not inconceivable we beat our points record again come end of season. If one is only looking at points then that would be progress.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

But the team aren't.

Everyone can if and but their way through the whole season, every season, and their team would be considerably higher.

I'll Eden a guess relegation doesn't fall into the Top 10 remit, yet here we are AGAIN.

Now I've never believed the Albion would get relegated, I got uppity with [MENTION=3734]Giraffe[/MENTION] at the start of the season as I felt we all need to aspire to more than tracking the clubs ability to not get relegated.
I will be getting titsy with G-Man again at the start of next season, for exactly the same reason.

The second step, after joining the club, is looking like we belong.

We could still finish 10th.

 

[Sheebo]

I think the thread question has been turned on it’s head.

Is anyone still in denial that Potter is slowly getting things right?

The worry is, after that excellent run with Leeds / Liverpool / Spurs I remember posting something about there will always be bumps in the road - and it seemed everyone agreed. We went through a fair bump with the 3 defeats - not one of those was deserved but not the point. And straight away the usual crap surfaced on here. It worries me we have 3 very tough games coming up and could easily lose all 3 and Fulham could easily pick up 4-6 points for example and the cycle will start again. I just think people need to be calmer, not look for someone to blame at every bad patch, see the bigger picture and enjoy that we’re in the best league in the world playing descent football and beating (let alone competing) with the worlds best teams! It’s crazy when you look at it from div 3 at withdean 20 years ago. Just enjoy the ride as it can’t get much better than this - it really can’t!

 

[GT49er]

Interesting but nothing he’s done since suggests he wasn’t totally inept has it?

Haven't followed his career since - in fact I've hardly even heard of him since he left us. I do wonder if his ideas would have worked with better players - on balance I think probably not, but ............................

 

[Sheebo]

But the team aren't.

Everyone can if and but their way through the whole season, every season, and their team would be considerably higher.

I'll Eden a guess relegation doesn't fall into the Top 10 remit, yet here we are AGAIN.

Now I've never believed the Albion would get relegated, I got uppity with [MENTION=3734]Giraffe[/MENTION] at the start of the season as I felt we all need to aspire to more than tracking the clubs ability to not get relegated.
I will be getting titsy with G-Man again at the start of next season, for exactly the same reason.

The second step, after joining the club, is looking like we belong.

Without doubt all season we’ve looked like we belong. Countless neutral pundits have constantly said it. Pep etc have - Pep keeps referencing Mr Potter and us in random pre match press conferences. We belong alright, we are just a work in progress that won’t always work.

 

[Stat Brother]

We could still finish 10th.

Fingers crossed.

We're currently 5th from bottom and considerably closer to 3rd from bottom than 10th.