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Anyone here remember those 2 little facist girlies from the US?



Diar

New member
Apr 12, 2011
173
check out Axis history forum , IT'S ALL THERE FOR EVERYONE TO READ nothing to hide...................... simples, when did i say i disagreed with your views on the subject by the way ?

You're right, you didnt say you disagreed with me, but from what I've read (admittedly only a small part of your views) I can only surmise that we would have very different views on the subject.
I too find the history of Nazi Germany fascinating... to the extent that people said to me that I'd become a Nazi if I persued this interest. My response was always the same: the more I read about The Third Reich, the less of a Nazi I become.
As I said, there are many sources of information about just what went on back then... the forum you suggest is just one of them. Some try to be historically accurate; others have a different agenda. The key, I think, is to read widely on the subject and, having done so, I am absolutely convinced of the terrible fate that would have awaited the world, if the Nazi's had not been beaten.
It is obvious that the Das Reich Division was a formidable fighting unit. It is also logical to assume that many of its members did not agree with the beastial acts that they were ordered to commit... in fact, who is to say how I would have behaved had I been in their ranks? The problem was that they were under the control of an ideology which is repugnant to any decent human being; an ideology that was ground into them by a totalitarian state that permitted no other source of information and facts than those which it wanted to perpetuate. Hitler was an extraordinarily clever man; his only disadvantage was that he was insane... his views and passions forged by the disgraceful (if understandable) treatment of his country after WW1, and by a shallow education and experience of the outside world. He was exposed to such rubbish as H S Chamberlain writings on race, Nietzsche's twisted views on man as an animal, and Wagner's opera world of Nordic heroes and the Goetterdaemmerung... and it all fitted in neatly with what he wanted to believe. This narrow view is easily overcome in normal circumstances, by exposure to a wider view of reality... but this didnt happen to Hitler, or to the crackpots who gathered round him. After taking power, the overwhelming state propaganda was to ensure that the young men who were to make up the crack battalions of Das Reich, Liebstandarte, Gross Deutschland and the rest, were never exposed to the truth either. When combined with the fact that many of them, dissillusioned by the way the world seemed to treat them, wanted to believe in the Nazi lies... to be the superior race... is it any wonder that so many were so easily fanaticised?
Armed with this fanaticism, incredible organisation, bravery and overwhelming militarism, they almost conquered the world. And you can see and hear this fanaticism still, amongst young men who admire power, and who seek to perpetuate the myth of Aryan superiority because they happen to be Aryans. But its all simplistic lies!
I met a guy in Greece once... he'd been in the Waffen SS in Russia. He told me of the tales of Aryan superiority he'd been fed prior to Barbarossa. Then he told me how quickly this lie had been exposed once they came across the Russian untermenchen at the battle of Kursk. Then all the bullshit flew out of the door and it was just a case of surviving... no more Aryan Gods, just frightened, starving men, shitting their pants and cursing GROFAZ... "Grosse feldherr alles zietung"... the Fuhrer who called himself the greatest military leader of all time.
Some carried on believing right to the end, some fought on with bravery born of terror, and loyalty to one's friends... but the real tragedy is that they were still fighting for a cause that was the most disgustingly evil lie that the world has ever known.
Speak about these people by all means, because they are victims themselves, but never raise them to the hieghts of heroes, or use the title that they fought under as you have done (without any explanation) and so help perpetuate a myth that is both inaccurate and dangerous.
Nothing to hide? You just have to look in the right places.
 
Last edited:




Diar

New member
Apr 12, 2011
173
Bollocks. You have consistently lied and disembled on here about how those poor ss soldiers were simply misunderstood and weren't murdering raping pieces of facist shit. And you rank with them quite frankly. You consistently refuse to explain yourself, witness your comment to magoo.

Seriously diar, ignore this thing. It has the brains of a sterile piece of shit.


I'm not ignoring your advice RS... but I'm really intruiged to see if he does have the ability to put forward a coherent arguement for his views.
 


Diar

New member
Apr 12, 2011
173
The best way to show up an idiot for what they truly are is to give them a voice. DR's 6500 posts average out as 7 words and a smilie each, which doesn't allow him to expand much on his views, and that is why you won't get a coherent response, just a half baked riddle and a emoticon. He knows where the line is and knows the consequences of stepping over it.

Every village has one.......


I have a feeling you're right, but I just want to find out for myself. I wont keep asking, because it IS possible that my time is being wasted by this bloke.
 


magoo

New member
Jul 8, 2003
6,682
United Kingdom
Das Reich you have a perfect opportunity here to prove us all wrong and force some apologies out of us. Can you give an intelligent and reasonable explanation for your username?
 


You're right, you didnt say you disagreed with me, but from what I've read (admittedly only a small part of your views) I can only surmise that we would have very different views on the subject.
I too find the history of Nazi Germany fascinating... to the extent that people said to me that I'd become a Nazi if I persued this interest. My response was always the same: the more I read about The Third Reich, the less of a Nazi I become.
As I said, there are many sources of information about just what went on back then... the forum you suggest is just one of them. Some try to be historically accurate; others have a different agenda. The key, I think, is to read widely on the subject and, having done so, I am absolutely convinced of the terrible fate that would have awaited the world, if the Nazi's had not been beaten.
It is obvious that the Das Reich Division was a formidable fighting unit. It is also logical to assume that many of its members did not agree with the beastial acts that they were ordered to commit... in fact, who is to say how I would have behaved had I been in their ranks? The problem was that they were under the control of an ideology which is repugnant to any decent human being; an ideology that was ground into them by a totalitarian state that permitted no other source of information and facts than those which it wanted to perpetuate. Hitler was an extraordinarily clever man; his only disadvantage was that he was insane... his views and passions forged by the disgraceful (if understandable) treatment of his country after WW1, and by a shallow education and experience of the outside world. He was exposed to such rubbish as H S Chamberlain writings on race, Nietzsche's twisted views on man as an animal, and Wagner's opera world of Nordic heroes and the Goetterdaemmerung... and it all fitted in neatly with what he wanted to believe. This narrow view is easily overcome in normal circumstances, by exposure to a wider view of reality... but this didnt happen to Hitler, or to the crackpots who gathered round him. After taking power, the overwhelming state propaganda was to ensure that the young men who were to make up the crack battalions of Das Reich, Liebstandarte, Gross Deutschland and the rest, were never exposed to the truth either. When combined with the fact that many of them, dissillusioned by the way the world seemed to treat them, wanted to believe in the Nazi lies... to be the superior race... is it any wonder that so many were so easily fanaticised?
Armed with this fanaticism, incredible organisation, bravery and overwhelming militarism, they almost conquered the world. And you can see and hear this fanaticism still, amongst young men who admire power, and who seek to perpetuate the myth of Aryan superiority because they happen to be Aryans. But its all simplistic lies!
I met a guy in Greece once... he'd been in the Waffen SS in Russia. He told me of the tales of Aryan superiority he'd been fed prior to Barbarossa. Then he told me how quickly this lie had been exposed once they came across the Russian untermenchen at the battle of Kursk. Then all the bullshit flew out of the door and it was just a case of surviving... no more Aryan Gods, just frightened, starving men, shitting their pants and cursing GROFAZ... "Grosse feldherr alles zietung"... the Fuhrer who called himself the greatest military leader of all time.
Some carried on believing right to the end, some fought on with bravery born of terror, and loyalty to one's friends... but the real tragedy is that they were still fighting for a cause that was the most disgustingly evil lie that the world has ever known.
Speak about these people by all means, because they are victims themselves, but never raise them to the hieghts of heroes, or use the title that they fought under as you have done (without any explanation) and so help perpetuate a myth that is both inaccurate and dangerous.
Nothing to hide? You just have to look in the right places.

You, sir (or madam) have just shown why there are those who wil oppose the lies of scum like dr.

Myself? I don't have your memories or experiences. My parents were fortunate enough to not have to fight, although they both lived through the Glasgow blitz. dr is scum. dr is unable or unwilling to defend properly his stance and we all know it.

Walk on in peace friend and ignore the scum that don't evem deserve to be called pond life.
 




Diar

New member
Apr 12, 2011
173
Thank you RS... it's Mr. by the way.
To be honest, I dont want to come across as a sanctimonious, do-gooder, but this subject really hits home to me. There are some things worth standing up against.
I still have a swaztika flag that my dad took from a knocked out German tank. It was washed several times by my mum, but there are still the dark shapes of the tank commander's blood on it (he was slumped over the side of the turret). As a kid, I remember feeling sorry for someone who died such a death, and my dad was always one who told me it was right to feel this way... that's what made us different from what we were fighting. It made me want to know more, and to try to understand why these people did what they did.
Because of this I tried to look at the history from as honest a standpoint as I could, always bearing in mind that I too could have been taken in by the lies if I'd been in that situation. Would I have killed for a cause that I had been brainwashed to believe was right? The answer was disturbing... possibly. Would I have had the courage, or the knowledge to stand against it, wheneveryone around me was taken over by the "facts" fed to them... probably not. That is why I have some sympathy (if thats the right word) for those who fought in the Das Reich Division, as soldiers. One thing I'm sure of though, is that, when told to murder innocent women and children because they were the enemy of my "blood", I would have begun to have doubts about the validity of what I had been taught. Would I have had the bravery to refuse? That's another disturbing thought.
Even if I had taken part I would not have been able to escape the conviction that I had been part of an evil force, and I cant avoid feeling some sympathy with those members of the SS who had to live with this truth for the rest of their lives.
Exalting in the name of the SS is another thing altogether, and its an ignorance that has to be challenged.
Give him some time to think... that's the great thing about forums... you have time to think through your responses carefully, and not appear to be hesitating because you need time to do so.
Who would have thought we'd come across such a deep subject on a football forum? Makes all the arguements about who has the hardest mob in the Championship seem unimportant, somehow.
I truly hope we can all walk on in peace, friend... and not have to go through such an experience as my dad did, again. I fear that wont be the case unless we are always on our guard against ignorance.
 


slinky

The Only Way Is Brighton
Jan 19, 2011
1,222
BN2
Personally i think anyone who denies that the holocaust happened, should be made to go to Auschwitz 1 and Berkinhau. I was working in Poland a few weeks ago, and had a free afternoon, and 4 of us took a trip there.

We all know what happened there, and know of it's history. But, when you actually visit it. well all i can say is it was a powerful experience. I had done some research beforehand on the Internet, but this still didn't prepare me for the experience.

If anyone here has been here, you will understand what i mean....
 


Diar

New member
Apr 12, 2011
173
That's heavy stuff, Slinky. I've never been able to go to Auschwitz, and part of me does'nt want to. Somehow I still want to believe in the basic decency of humanity, but that would be stretching me. I feel I must go, just to reinforce my conviction that these horrors actually happened, not in the depths of some primitive country, but here in our midst... in cultured, educated Europe.
Did you know that German mothers used to teach their children the prayer: "Liebe Gott, macht mir schon, so ich nicht nacht Dachau komm." (excuse the liberties with spelling). "Dear God, make me good, so I wont go to Dachau"
What would they have said about Auschwitz?!!!
Just listening to Sky News tonight, and it appears that the bloke who killed all those Norwiegian children is a right wing fanatic, who believes that Europe should be "culturally pure". He has published on the web too... an educated, well written apology for racism, apparently. I'll have to read it because it's only by reading extremist stuff, and by using your logic to dismember it, that you can keep youself immune to it... and, in my experience, it's ALWAYS pseudo-philosophical RUBBISH!
The danger is that it appeals to the unwary who want to believe it because it fits in with their in built prejudices.
Thanks for sharing your experiences, mate.
 




Fungus

Well-known member
NSC Patron
May 21, 2004
7,160
Truro
I suspect some of these shits come on message boards (not just NSC) as a "contact point" for anyone else of a similar persuasion. They won't explain themselves, they just want to establish a presence. It would be interesting to know how many PMs DR gets.
 


slinky

The Only Way Is Brighton
Jan 19, 2011
1,222
BN2
That's heavy stuff, Slinky. I've never been able to go to Auschwitz, and part of me does'nt want to. Somehow I still want to believe in the basic decency of humanity, but that would be stretching me. I feel I must go, just to reinforce my conviction that these horrors actually happened, not in the depths of some primitive country, but here in our midst... in cultured, educated Europe.
Did you know that German mothers used to teach their children the prayer: "Liebe Gott, macht mir schon, so ich nicht nacht Dachau komm." (excuse the liberties with spelling). "Dear God, make me good, so I wont go to Dachau"
What would they have said about Auschwitz?!!!
Just listening to Sky News tonight, and it appears that the bloke who killed all those Norwiegian children is a right wing fanatic, who believes that Europe should be "culturally pure". He has published on the web too... an educated, well written apology for racism, apparently. I'll have to read it because it's only by reading extremist stuff, and by using your logic to dismember it, that you can keep youself immune to it... and, in my experience, it's ALWAYS pseudo-philosophical RUBBISH!
The danger is that it appeals to the unwary who want to believe it because it fits in with their in built prejudices.
Thanks for sharing your experiences, mate.

Diar, I was aware of the saying, but wasn't aware the german mothers used to tell it to their children. With regards to Auschwitz, it started off as a work camp for the Political prisoners, most of whom died, through nutritional defects, or disease.

But then they started shipping in more jewish prisoners and they used to punish them, by working them all day, and making them sleep on straw mattresses 10 to a bunk, and the bunk bed had 3 tiers. If they mis behaved they would have to spend the night in the standing cell, of which was 3 feet square, and the would have to stay in there all night (four people in the cell). they also had other cells, such as the starvation cells and the suffocation cells. Or they would just shoot them in the back of the head, execution style.

They also used women and children to test medicines and sterilisation medicines, and if they got ill they would shoot them. A form of crucifixion was also used.

But all of the execution shooting was causing the soldiers mental issues, as well as it being slow, so they decided to test out other forms, Zyklon B was used, and they would put up to 600 people in to the gas chamber, and the prisoners would know what was happening. This made Auschwitz in to a efficient killing factory, the only problem was the Crematorium could not cope with the large mass of bodies.

This is where Birkenau (the bigger camp) was formed. This is when the German officials decided the Final Solution would kick in. The Jewish prisoners would be shipped in to this new camp, of where they were sorted, the able men were sent to the work house, and the women and children were sent for delousing. (the Gas chambers) each chamber could Gas up to 2000 people in 15 minutes, and they had 5 gas chambers, and 5 crematoriums. Birkenau was only in use for 3 years, and the Building of the camp was never finished.

They think a figure of between 2.5 and 4 million jewish prisoners from thoughout Europe were executed in Auschwitz 1 and Birkenau combined.

that is just a brief overview, much more happened, believe me from that visit, i believe the holocaust happened, and my personal opinion is everyone should visit it at least once in their life.
 


Diar

New member
Apr 12, 2011
173
Diar, I was aware of the saying, but wasn't aware the german mothers used to tell it to their children. With regards to Auschwitz, it started off as a work camp for the Political prisoners, most of whom died, through nutritional defects, or disease.

But then they started shipping in more jewish prisoners and they used to punish them, by working them all day, and making them sleep on straw mattresses 10 to a bunk, and the bunk bed had 3 tiers. If they mis behaved they would have to spend the night in the standing cell, of which was 3 feet square, and the would have to stay in there all night (four people in the cell). they also had other cells, such as the starvation cells and the suffocation cells. Or they would just shoot them in the back of the head, execution style.

They also used women and children to test medicines and sterilisation medicines, and if they got ill they would shoot them. A form of crucifixion was also used.

But all of the execution shooting was causing the soldiers mental issues, as well as it being slow, so they decided to test out other forms, Zyklon B was used, and they would put up to 600 people in to the gas chamber, and the prisoners would know what was happening. This made Auschwitz in to a efficient killing factory, the only problem was the Crematorium could not cope with the large mass of bodies.

This is where Birkenau (the bigger camp) was formed. This is when the German officials decided the Final Solution would kick in. The Jewish prisoners would be shipped in to this new camp, of where they were sorted, the able men were sent to the work house, and the women and children were sent for delousing. (the Gas chambers) each chamber could Gas up to 2000 people in 15 minutes, and they had 5 gas chambers, and 5 crematoriums. Birkenau was only in use for 3 years, and the Building of the camp was never finished.

They think a figure of between 2.5 and 4 million jewish prisoners from thoughout Europe were executed in Auschwitz 1 and Birkenau combined.

that is just a brief overview, much more happened, believe me from that visit, i believe the holocaust happened, and my personal opinion is everyone should visit it at least once in their life.

Even now it still amazes me how many people know so little about something so important. When you think that big, established firms like I G Farben, Krupps, and Siemens vied for contracts to build slave labour factories there, or to supply crematoria, or industrial cyanide (meant for pest control) for use on human beings, it makes you realise how easily people can become warped.
And it's all there, written down in contracts and SS records, photographed by the perpatrators themselves because they never considered that the work they were so proud of would ever come to light in a civilised society.
The evidence is so massively overwhelming that it is way beyond any rational denial. And most of them got away with it because the allies couldnt hunt down every one of them.
Same with the Waffen SS, especially Das Reich, who carried out anti-partizan activities in Yugoslavia that went way beyond any acceptable forms of warfare. The men of the Dirlewangler brigade were specially chosen psychopaths, dressed in soldiers uniforms.
That's why DR's infantile postings need to be challenged. If these people have contrary evidence, let them bring it out in a rational, scientific way, so that it can be smashed to pieces in the face of the truth... which it always is.
Still waiting DR.
 




daveinprague

New member
Oct 1, 2009
12,572
Prague, Czech Republic
Think its even weirder in Europe to have toe-jam like this within society. The Neo Nazis tried to march here, although not since as they were chased out of the city, a few years ago... They wanted to march through the Jewish part of the city on Hitlers birthday or some such fecking nonsense...other than to cause gross offence, I could see no purprose to the march. They are attention seeking, lifes also-ran's.
 


Jan 30, 2008
31,981
Das Reich you have a perfect opportunity here to prove us all wrong and force some apologies out of us. Can you give an intelligent and reasonable explanation for your username?
i'm not looking for apologies from anyone , i've shown you my interests and i'm not ashamed of that, if you don't like it well that's just tough , that's the end of the subject from me , Diars clued up and posted some interesting insights and thanks for that , others like readingstockport , ive said earlier to him ..... take that chip of your shoulder .
 


magoo

New member
Jul 8, 2003
6,682
United Kingdom
And yet another illiterate cop out... It won't be the end of it though will it. I dare say elsewhere in another thread you will find a way to be less than subtle with your 'views'.
 






Jan 30, 2008
31,981
The best way to show up an idiot for what they truly are is to give them a voice. DR's 6500 posts average out as 7 words and a smilie each, which doesn't allow him to expand much on his views, and that is why you won't get a coherent response, just a half baked riddle and a emoticon. He knows where the line is and knows the consequences of stepping over it.

Every village has one.......
its like a wild west shoot out on here? , who's going to be first on the draw ! half baked riddles ,mmmmmmmm not to sure on that EP ? YOU'LL BE SUPPRISED HOW POPULAR I AM ON HERE JUST BY FEED BACK I'VE RECIEVED BUT HEY HO YOU KNOW BEST .
 


magoo

New member
Jul 8, 2003
6,682
United Kingdom
haha you're like one of those people that go on x-factor thinking they're really brilliant and everyone loves them when in reality they are f***ing awful and just stand there in shock when told so.
 


Diar

New member
Apr 12, 2011
173
Sad end to this thread, I'm afraid. I was looking forward to a discussion of the reasons why we think as we do. Even an explanation of why that particular username would have been a start but, as he says, he doesnt have to explain himself to anyone. The repercussions of that standpoint will, of course, be that his views will never be fully understood and people will make up their own minds about him. That might not be a problem to him, but if he feels that there are injustices and falsehoods with regard to the people who were involved in the Third Reich, surely it would be to the benefit of truth and justice that these things should be brought out in a logically argued way. If there IS no logical arguement for a re-assessment of history, then it is probably better from his point of view to remain silent, and to continue to follow a standpoint based upon a Weltanschauung (world view) in the certain knowledge that it is both illogical, and without foundation. That is his choice... unfortunately, by giving these little snippets of a view that causes extreme offence to others, he will continue to be part of the perpetuation of the great lie.
I wanted to know why he did the things he did, because I was genuinely interested, but, as many of you warned me, it is not going to happen.
I have read H S Chamberlain's "Grundlagen des Neunzehnten Jahrhunderts", which was the bedrock of Hitler's racist views. It is highly readable and almost convincing; if I were easily led, and looking for a book that would confirm that I, as an Aryan, was one of the superior beings, then this would be the one for me. Fortunately, I am not easily duped and, in this mode, it is relatively easy to pick out the contradictions and half-truths, stated as fact, that litter Chamberlain's work.
It is still a fascinating insight into the thoughts of a man who so admired the Germans that he changed nationality before working upon this obsequeous, grovelling, almost infantile view of the Teutonic place in world history. He confessed to being possessed by "demons" whilst writing the most important parts... such things have no place in my world of logic, but Hitler, and many other right-wing pseudo-intellectuals, apparently found the whole thing totally convincing. Personally, I rather think that Chamberlain was schizophrenic, amongst other things.
I would recommend it to DR, except that I suspect he might fall into exactly the same bracket as Hitler... looking for confirmation of his Weltanschauung. Instead, if he wants to expand his source material in a genuine attempt to find the real truth, I would recommend "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" by William L Shirer; an American journalist who lived in Germany through the birth of the Nazi empire, and who was given access to a warehouse full of captured Nazi documentation (including Hitler's private conversations) after the war, and before they were destroyed by the vengeful allies. I would be surprised if he could read that without having at least some doubt cast upon his determination to use a Nazi term as his username.
As I have said before, many of us are aware that the Waffen SS were a formidable fighting force, showing bravery, determination, and fighting skill throughout... the only problem was that they were fighting for an evil cause and many of them, notably Das Reich, were called upon to perform inhuman beastiality upon their fellow man, and did so on the basis of an indoctrination into a false
Weltanschauung that was the curse of Hitlerism. For this reason they should never be lauded as heroic.
 




Jan 30, 2008
31,981
Sad end to this thread, I'm afraid. I was looking forward to a discussion of the reasons why we think as we do. Even an explanation of why that particular username would have been a start but, as he says, he doesnt have to explain himself to anyone. The repercussions of that standpoint will, of course, be that his views will never be fully understood and people will make up their own minds about him. That might not be a problem to him, but if he feels that there are injustices and falsehoods with regard to the people who were involved in the Third Reich, surely it would be to the benefit of truth and justice that these things should be brought out in a logically argued way. If there IS no logical arguement for a re-assessment of history, then it is probably better from his point of view to remain silent, and to continue to follow a standpoint based upon a Weltanschauung (world view) in the certain knowledge that it is both illogical, and without foundation. That is his choice... unfortunately, by giving these little snippets of a view that causes extreme offence to others, he will continue to be part of the perpetuation of the great lie.
I wanted to know why he did the things he did, because I was genuinely interested, but, as many of you warned me, it is not going to happen.
I have read H S Chamberlain's "Grundlagen des Neunzehnten Jahrhunderts", which was the bedrock of Hitler's racist views. It is highly readable and almost convincing; if I were easily led, and looking for a book that would confirm that I, as an Aryan, was one of the superior beings, then this would be the one for me. Fortunately, I am not easily duped and, in this mode, it is relatively easy to pick out the contradictions and half-truths, stated as fact, that litter Chamberlain's work.
It is still a fascinating insight into the thoughts of a man who so admired the Germans that he changed nationality before working upon this obsequeous, grovelling, almost infantile view of the Teutonic place in world history. He confessed to being possessed by "demons" whilst writing the most important parts... such things have no place in my world of logic, but Hitler, and many other right-wing pseudo-intellectuals, apparently found the whole thing totally convincing. Personally, I rather think that Chamberlain was schizophrenic, amongst other things.
I would recommend it to DR, except that I suspect he might fall into exactly the same bracket as Hitler... looking for confirmation of his Weltanschauung. Instead, if he wants to expand his source material in a genuine attempt to find the real truth, I would recommend "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" by William L Shirer; an American journalist who lived in Germany through the birth of the Nazi empire, and who was given access to a warehouse full of captured Nazi documentation (including Hitler's private conversations) after the war, and before they were destroyed by the vengeful allies. I would be surprised if he could read that without having at least some doubt cast upon his determination to use a Nazi term as his username.
As I have said before, many of us are aware that the Waffen SS were a formidable fighting force, showing bravery, determination, and fighting skill throughout... the only problem was that they were fighting for an evil cause and many of them, notably Das Reich, were called upon to perform inhuman beastiality upon their fellow man, and did so on the basis of an indoctrination into a false
Weltanschauung that was the curse of Hitlerism. For this reason they should never be lauded as heroic.
no need to slot me into your historical rhetoric Diar, but thanks for your input on the subject, you obviously know your stuff.
 




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