My girlfriend has worked for a multi national company for 5 years. Her department are being made redundant. She has been treated contemptuously by the company, and I'd like to pay for a consultation with an employment law expert for her, as it's seriously affecting her mental wellbeing. I believe she's being asked to sign a disclaimer, in order to get anything above statutory redundancy pay, but she may have enough evidence of non compliance / underhand tactics to be able to take them to a tribunal. She needs an expert to explain the legal ramifications to her. Any volunteers out there? What's the current hourly rate ?
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[Finance] Any employment law experts on NSC, preferably near Shoreham ?
- Thread starter Binney on acid
- Start date
Good luck to your girlfriend - sorry to hear this is happening.
The UoS helped a mate of mine recently on some advice on how to move forward - recommend giving them a shout initially.
The UoS helped a mate of mine recently on some advice on how to move forward - recommend giving them a shout initially.
- Jul 27, 2024
- 605
Commiserations to your girlfriend. It was an experience I had 4 times in my career. This will be of absolutely no consolation right now, while she’s still angry and grief-stricken, but every time it happened to me I ended up in a much better place — though I don’t underestimate the pain and fury she will have to go through first.
We obviously don’t know the circumstances here but I’m afraid being treated badly is pretty much par for the course, certainly in the private sector. These restructuring decisions are made by people often far away, even on another continent, who fundamentally don’t give a toss about the human impact of their decisions though they’ll pretend they do by offering a range of sweeteners. Unless they’re unusually incompetent the bad news is that they will have done all the right prep and run it past employment lawyers themselves to ensure there’s no comeback and no loopholes. Simply being treated badly isn’t normally anywhere near enough to get them to change their minds. But if your girlfriend really does have a strong case in law, fair enough, I wish her the best of luck. If she’s advised that she doesn’t have a great case in law then honestly, her best bet is to say “f*** ‘em” and quickly get on with looking for a better job working for better people. It may take a couple of weeks to reach this stage of equanimity but honestly, she will get there.
We obviously don’t know the circumstances here but I’m afraid being treated badly is pretty much par for the course, certainly in the private sector. These restructuring decisions are made by people often far away, even on another continent, who fundamentally don’t give a toss about the human impact of their decisions though they’ll pretend they do by offering a range of sweeteners. Unless they’re unusually incompetent the bad news is that they will have done all the right prep and run it past employment lawyers themselves to ensure there’s no comeback and no loopholes. Simply being treated badly isn’t normally anywhere near enough to get them to change their minds. But if your girlfriend really does have a strong case in law, fair enough, I wish her the best of luck. If she’s advised that she doesn’t have a great case in law then honestly, her best bet is to say “f*** ‘em” and quickly get on with looking for a better job working for better people. It may take a couple of weeks to reach this stage of equanimity but honestly, she will get there.
Weststander
Well-known member
Good luck.
Ensure that she kept contemporaneous notes of underhand stuff, to support any claim.
Ensure that she kept contemporaneous notes of underhand stuff, to support any claim.
Justice
Dangerous Idiot
Seems it’s between £175-400 per hour.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,898
Her best bet imo is to get together with her colleagues in the department and prepare to take the case forward as a class action with one firm of lawyers/tribunal since any non-compliance/underhand tactics will effect everyone being subject to the redundancy.
I would suggest she not sign anything at least before getting advice - to this end, I would recommend phoning ACAS who can talk through some of the options open to you.
Contact us | Acas
Contact details for Acas, including phone numbers to call our helpline, training and other Acas services.
In the meantime, you may find this an interesting case for points of law - especially if there are more than 20 employees effected
P&O Ferries Redundancy Case: What Went Wrong and Lessons for Employers on UK Employment Law
Explore the P&O Ferries redundancy case and learn valuable lessons for employers on handling redundancies in compliance with UK employment law.
www.hrsolutions-uk.com
Oh good. At least it's not too expensive. :-(
Gabbafella
Well-known member
- Aug 22, 2012
- 4,905
As suggested above, Acas are very informative and will point you in the right direction. Best of luck getting the outcome you want.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,898
And I forgot to mention, ACAS offer their telephone advice free of charge too.
Wes Tupper
Active member
- Feb 27, 2024
- 116
It may well be a settlement agreement, rather than a disclaimer, that she is being asked to sign. These are usually only valid if the employee has received professional legal advice, which is normally funded by the employer and would save the OP from shelling out on legal fees.
Might be worth holding fire on hiring a lawyer until the situation becomes clearer.
She shouldn’t sign or agree to anything until she has received proper legal advice.
Might be worth holding fire on hiring a lawyer until the situation becomes clearer.
She shouldn’t sign or agree to anything until she has received proper legal advice.
Don’t agree. Went through several restructures in big corporations where everything was planned and scripted to avoid issues, but so often those managing parts of the process (and critical discussions with individuals) rode roughshod over due process, company policy and ultimately HR legislation.
100% worth getting advice. Would also recommend either recording all meetings and/or having someone else present.
Weststander
Well-known member
100% all of this.
Remember HR either inhouse or consultants are on the owners/directors side, no matter how ‘nice’ and kind they appear.
- Jul 27, 2024
- 605
Well fair enough if you’ve had a different experience from mine. I guess there’s always the possibility that lower level managers misunderstand the procedure. It’s just not what I’ve come across. There are always grievances and a ton of emotion around redundancies but when the dust settles a bit people usually have to accept they’ve been f***ed over and get on with working out how to deal with it. Note I didn’t say she shouldn’t take advice. That seems v sensible if she genuinely thinks that due process hasn’t been followed. Just that she shouldn’t get her hopes up too much. IME the corporate bods know the law. A future update would be interesting.
My only advice would be to avoid their HR department. Especially if they make out they are there to help you.
They exist to help the company, not you.
Do not engage.
They exist to help the company, not you.
Do not engage.
- Oct 17, 2008
- 14,471
I’m afraid I don’t have any recommendations, and I’m not legally trained, but the only thing I will say is for your girlfriend not to sign anything to do with this presently and to seek professional legal advice. Don’t use the internet on this for advice.
Good luck to you and her.
Good luck to you and her.
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- Oct 17, 2008
- 14,471
Can I just say, the part I have bolded above is not good advice and sums up the danger of looking for legal advice online.Her best bet imo is to get together with her colleagues in the department and prepare to take the case forward as a class action with one firm of lawyers/tribunal since any non-compliance/underhand tactics will effect everyone being subject to the redundancy.
I would suggest she not sign anything at least before getting advice - to this end, I would recommend phoning ACAS who can talk through some of the options open to you.
Contact us | Acas
Contact details for Acas, including phone numbers to call our helpline, training and other Acas services.www.acas.org.uk
In the meantime, you may find this an interesting case for points of law - especially if there are more than 20 employees effected
P&O Ferries Redundancy Case: What Went Wrong and Lessons for Employers on UK Employment Law
Explore the P&O Ferries redundancy case and learn valuable lessons for employers on handling redundancies in compliance with UK employment law.
Get a solicitor.
She should do nothing of the sort, as such actions have absolutely zero benefit to her situation and may harm her case at tribunal should it come to that. If there were an issue involving multiple people, a solicitor can use their legal expertise to assess whether to get statements from them at an appropriate time.
If said colleagues have made supporting statements, sent emails, txts etc which support her individual case then definitely document these to hand over to a solicitor if they represent her in this issue.
I agree with the second (unhighlighted) part about not signing anything, though.
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Nope, it’s not ‘misunderstanding the procedure’ at all in my experience - it’s often deliberate circumvention of or playing fast and loose with the process in order to get to their preferred outcome, and it’s usually the more senior managers that think they can get away with it, not the lower levels who typically try to follow the rules. Seen it multiple times, had to deal with the aftermath several times and been on the end if it myself once.
Fiona Martin is great - she'll usually review the issue for free to give you an indication as to whether it's worth proceeding. I've used a few times and she's always got me a better deal and the employer to pay the legal fees.
Fiona Martin - Director and Head of Employment Team | martin searle solicitors
Fiona is a Director of martin searle solicitors and Head of Employment Law, specialising in pregnancy and maternity discrimination advice.
www.ms-solicitors.co.uk
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,898
Uh?
Where did I suggest looking for legal advice online? Or offer any kind of legal advice? You really need to read people’s posts more carefully mate before commenting on them.
Unlike you, I do have a legal qualification but I have offered NO legal advice here other than to speak to colleagues about any potential legal action before starting any individual legal action (as class actions can be more successful against deep-pocket multi-nationals as the employer is in this case because it’s cheaper for the claimants who can pool resources) - BUT in the first instance I said ‘contact ACAS’ which is a free and independent telephone helpline for all matters relating to employment law..
And NO, my years of working for firms of solicitors says your ’advice’ could be both costly and unnecessary at this stage, contacting a solicitor is NOT the right thing to do unless you want to fork out anything up to £400 for initial meeting/advice which may not even be necessary once the OP has spoken to ACAS about other options available including eg an ACAS mediation tribunal other than initiating an expensive and private legal case.. Most solicitors will strongly advise you meeting with them and signing a retainer/services contract rather than proffer case-specific advice on the phone. If you can find one that says free of charge over the phone, you “could” have a case (and most will say they “could” make a case - the real question is the likelihood of it succeeding) , be prepared to fork out a wad of money to sit down and discuss anything in detail.
I repeat the advice I offered above, contact ACAS who will need to be informed anyway if an employment tribunal route is used:
“Acas gives employees and employers free, impartial advice on workplace rights, rules and best practice. We also offer training and help to resolve disputes. More about Acas.
Acas | Making working life better for everyone in Britain
Acas is the workplace expert for England, Wales and Scotland. We provide free and impartial advice for employers and employees, training and help resolve disputes.
Make a claim to an employment tribunal
How to take an employer to a tribunal: the hearing, what happens if you lose your case, how to appeal.
“Before you make a claim to an employment tribunal, you must tell Acas(Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service). The time limit for making a claim is put on hold while Acas helps you resolve your dispute.”
Just to add, check your Home insurance policy to see if it includes legal fees - I have up to £50,000 on my policy for legal costs and includes initial legal advice - it was very useful in a case I had against a building company but you would have to use the insurance company’s recommended solicitors if you opted for this route and they are not the best firms tbh.
TLDR
As said above contact ACAS as a first step
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- Thread starter
- #20
Some fantastic advice here. I knew you wouldn't let me down ! My girlfriend's is the voice on the other end of the phone that you need, when you have a disaster unfolding. However, when you have a decision maker in another European capital armed with a spreadsheet, looking to make savings in order to enhance his pension, the quality of her work, commitment to the company, empathetic input, and ability to diffuse toxic situations counts for nothing. As things stand, I'll recommend ACAS and Fiona Martin to her. Thanks in particular to Westdene Seagull. Any more constructive suggestions ? She's been living under this cloud since June, and her last day of service is 31 March.