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[Finance] Any employment law experts on NSC, preferably near Shoreham ?



Binney on acid

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 30, 2003
2,668
Shoreham
My girlfriend has worked for a multi national company for 5 years. Her department are being made redundant. She has been treated contemptuously by the company, and I'd like to pay for a consultation with an employment law expert for her, as it's seriously affecting her mental wellbeing. I believe she's being asked to sign a disclaimer, in order to get anything above statutory redundancy pay, but she may have enough evidence of non compliance / underhand tactics to be able to take them to a tribunal. She needs an expert to explain the legal ramifications to her. Any volunteers out there? What's the current hourly rate ?
 




Sussax

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 31, 2012
2,764
Brighton


Professor Plum

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 27, 2024
607
Commiserations to your girlfriend. It was an experience I had 4 times in my career. This will be of absolutely no consolation right now, while she’s still angry and grief-stricken, but every time it happened to me I ended up in a much better place — though I don’t underestimate the pain and fury she will have to go through first.

We obviously don’t know the circumstances here but I’m afraid being treated badly is pretty much par for the course, certainly in the private sector. These restructuring decisions are made by people often far away, even on another continent, who fundamentally don’t give a toss about the human impact of their decisions though they’ll pretend they do by offering a range of sweeteners. Unless they’re unusually incompetent the bad news is that they will have done all the right prep and run it past employment lawyers themselves to ensure there’s no comeback and no loopholes. Simply being treated badly isn’t normally anywhere near enough to get them to change their minds. But if your girlfriend really does have a strong case in law, fair enough, I wish her the best of luck. If she’s advised that she doesn’t have a great case in law then honestly, her best bet is to say “f*** ‘em” and quickly get on with looking for a better job working for better people. It may take a couple of weeks to reach this stage of equanimity but honestly, she will get there.
 








Zeberdi

“Vorsprung durch Technik”
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
6,905
My girlfriend has worked for a multi national company for 5 years. Her department are being made redundant. She has been treated contemptuously by the company, and I'd like to pay for a consultation with an employment law expert for her, as it's seriously affecting her mental wellbeing. I believe she's being asked to sign a disclaimer, in order to get anything above statutory redundancy pay, but she may have enough evidence of non compliance / underhand tactics to be able to take them to a tribunal. She needs an expert to explain the legal ramifications to her. Any volunteers out there? What's the current hourly rate ?
Her best bet imo is to get together with her colleagues in the department and prepare to take the case forward as a class action with one firm of lawyers/tribunal since any non-compliance/underhand tactics will effect everyone being subject to the redundancy.

I would suggest she not sign anything at least before getting advice - to this end, I would recommend phoning ACAS who can talk through some of the options open to you.



In the meantime, you may find this an interesting case for points of law - especially if there are more than 20 employees effected

 




Gabbafella

Well-known member
Aug 22, 2012
4,905
As suggested above, Acas are very informative and will point you in the right direction. Best of luck getting the outcome you want.
 




Zeberdi

“Vorsprung durch Technik”
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
6,905
As suggested above, Acas are very informative and will point you in the right direction. Best of luck getting the outcome you want.
And I forgot to mention, ACAS offer their telephone advice free of charge too.
 


Wes Tupper

Active member
Feb 27, 2024
116
It may well be a settlement agreement, rather than a disclaimer, that she is being asked to sign. These are usually only valid if the employee has received professional legal advice, which is normally funded by the employer and would save the OP from shelling out on legal fees.
Might be worth holding fire on hiring a lawyer until the situation becomes clearer.
She shouldn’t sign or agree to anything until she has received proper legal advice.
 


dazzer6666

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Mar 27, 2013
55,513
Burgess Hill
Commiserations to your girlfriend. It was an experience I had 4 times in my career. This will be of absolutely no consolation right now, while she’s still angry and grief-stricken, but every time it happened to me I ended up in a much better place — though I don’t underestimate the pain and fury she will have to go through first.

We obviously don’t know the circumstances here but I’m afraid being treated badly is pretty much par for the course, certainly in the private sector. These restructuring decisions are made by people often far away, even on another continent, who fundamentally don’t give a toss about the human impact of their decisions though they’ll pretend they do by offering a range of sweeteners. Unless they’re unusually incompetent the bad news is that they will have done all the right prep and run it past employment lawyers themselves to ensure there’s no comeback and no loopholes. Simply being treated badly isn’t normally anywhere near enough to get them to change their minds. But if your girlfriend really does have a strong case in law, fair enough, I wish her the best of luck. If she’s advised that she doesn’t have a great case in law then honestly, her best bet is to say “f*** ‘em” and quickly get on with looking for a better job working for better people. It may take a couple of weeks to reach this stage of equanimity but honestly, she will get there.
Don’t agree. Went through several restructures in big corporations where everything was planned and scripted to avoid issues, but so often those managing parts of the process (and critical discussions with individuals) rode roughshod over due process, company policy and ultimately HR legislation.

100% worth getting advice. Would also recommend either recording all meetings and/or having someone else present.
 




Weststander

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2011
69,238
Withdean area
Don’t agree. Went through several restructures in big corporations where everything was planned and scripted to avoid issues, but so often those managing parts of the process (and critical discussions with individuals) rode roughshod over due process, company policy and ultimately HR legislation.

100% worth getting advice. Would also recommend either recording all meetings and/or having someone else present.

100% all of this.

Remember HR either inhouse or consultants are on the owners/directors side, no matter how ‘nice’ and kind they appear.
 


Professor Plum

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 27, 2024
607
Don’t agree. Went through several restructures in big corporations where everything was planned and scripted to avoid issues, but so often those managing parts of the process (and critical discussions with individuals) rode roughshod over due process, company policy and ultimately HR legislation.

100% worth getting advice. Would also recommend either recording all meetings and/or having someone else present.
Well fair enough if you’ve had a different experience from mine. I guess there’s always the possibility that lower level managers misunderstand the procedure. It’s just not what I’ve come across. There are always grievances and a ton of emotion around redundancies but when the dust settles a bit people usually have to accept they’ve been f***ed over and get on with working out how to deal with it. Note I didn’t say she shouldn’t take advice. That seems v sensible if she genuinely thinks that due process hasn’t been followed. Just that she shouldn’t get her hopes up too much. IME the corporate bods know the law. A future update would be interesting.
 






jcdenton08

Offended Liver Sausage
NSC Patron
Oct 17, 2008
14,487
I’m afraid I don’t have any recommendations, and I’m not legally trained, but the only thing I will say is for your girlfriend not to sign anything to do with this presently and to seek professional legal advice. Don’t use the internet on this for advice.

Good luck to you and her.
 
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jcdenton08

Offended Liver Sausage
NSC Patron
Oct 17, 2008
14,487
Her best bet imo is to get together with her colleagues in the department and prepare to take the case forward as a class action with one firm of lawyers/tribunal since any non-compliance/underhand tactics will effect everyone being subject to the redundancy.

I would suggest she not sign anything at least before getting advice - to this end, I would recommend phoning ACAS who can talk through some of the options open to you.



In the meantime, you may find this an interesting case for points of law - especially if there are more than 20 employees effected

Can I just say, the part I have bolded above is not good advice and sums up the danger of looking for legal advice online.

Get a solicitor.

She should do nothing of the sort, as such actions have absolutely zero benefit to her situation and may harm her case at tribunal should it come to that. If there were an issue involving multiple people, a solicitor can use their legal expertise to assess whether to get statements from them at an appropriate time.

If said colleagues have made supporting statements, sent emails, txts etc which support her individual case then definitely document these to hand over to a solicitor if they represent her in this issue.

I agree with the second (unhighlighted) part about not signing anything, though.
 
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dazzer6666

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Mar 27, 2013
55,513
Burgess Hill
Well fair enough if you’ve had a different experience from mine. I guess there’s always the possibility that lower level managers misunderstand the procedure. It’s just not what I’ve come across. There are always grievances and a ton of emotion around redundancies but when the dust settles a bit people usually have to accept they’ve been f***ed over and get on with working out how to deal with it. Note I didn’t say she shouldn’t take advice. That seems v sensible if she genuinely thinks that due process hasn’t been followed. Just that she shouldn’t get her hopes up too much. IME the corporate bods know the law. A future update would be interesting.
Nope, it’s not ‘misunderstanding the procedure’ at all in my experience - it’s often deliberate circumvention of or playing fast and loose with the process in order to get to their preferred outcome, and it’s usually the more senior managers that think they can get away with it, not the lower levels who typically try to follow the rules. Seen it multiple times, had to deal with the aftermath several times and been on the end if it myself once.
 


Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
21,526
The arse end of Hangleton
Fiona Martin is great - she'll usually review the issue for free to give you an indication as to whether it's worth proceeding. I've used a few times and she's always got me a better deal and the employer to pay the legal fees.

 




Zeberdi

“Vorsprung durch Technik”
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
6,905
Can I just say, the part I have bolded above is not good advice and sums up the danger of looking for legal advice online.

Get a solicitor.
Uh?

Where did I suggest looking for legal advice online? Or offer any kind of legal advice? You really need to read people’s posts more carefully mate before commenting on them.

Unlike you, I do have a legal qualification but I have offered NO legal advice here other than to speak to colleagues about any potential legal action before starting any individual legal action (as class actions can be more successful against deep-pocket multi-nationals as the employer is in this case because it’s cheaper for the claimants who can pool resources) - BUT in the first instance I said ‘contact ACAS’ which is a free and independent telephone helpline for all matters relating to employment law..

And NO, my years of working for firms of solicitors says your ’advice’ could be both costly and unnecessary at this stage, contacting a solicitor is NOT the right thing to do unless you want to fork out anything up to £400 for initial meeting/advice which may not even be necessary once the OP has spoken to ACAS about other options available including eg an ACAS mediation tribunal other than initiating an expensive and private legal case.. Most solicitors will strongly advise you meeting with them and signing a retainer/services contract rather than proffer case-specific advice on the phone. If you can find one that says free of charge over the phone, you “could” have a case (and most will say they “could” make a case - the real question is the likelihood of it succeeding) , be prepared to fork out a wad of money to sit down and discuss anything in detail.

I repeat the advice I offered above, contact ACAS who will need to be informed anyway if an employment tribunal route is used:

“Acas gives employees and employers free, impartial advice on workplace rights, rules and best practice. We also offer training and help to resolve disputes. More about Acas.



Before you make a claim to an employment tribunal, you must tell Acas(Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service). The time limit for making a claim is put on hold while Acas helps you resolve your dispute.”

Just to add, check your Home insurance policy to see if it includes legal fees - I have up to £50,000 on my policy for legal costs and includes initial legal advice - it was very useful in a case I had against a building company but you would have to use the insurance company’s recommended solicitors if you opted for this route and they are not the best firms tbh.

TLDR

As said above contact ACAS as a first step
 
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Binney on acid

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 30, 2003
2,668
Shoreham
Some fantastic advice here. I knew you wouldn't let me down ! My girlfriend's is the voice on the other end of the phone that you need, when you have a disaster unfolding. However, when you have a decision maker in another European capital armed with a spreadsheet, looking to make savings in order to enhance his pension, the quality of her work, commitment to the company, empathetic input, and ability to diffuse toxic situations counts for nothing. As things stand, I'll recommend ACAS and Fiona Martin to her. Thanks in particular to Westdene Seagull. Any more constructive suggestions ? She's been living under this cloud since June, and her last day of service is 31 March.
 


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