[Albion] Ansu Fati **Signed On Loan 01/09**

[Javeaseagull]

No chance. There would have been a genuine belief that he’d be worth it. If he hadn’t got in he might have been…..we’ll probably never know.

I am sure you are right it’s just that every football fan I meet out here, English and Spanish, all say, “you’ve done well to get him.” I am talking about people out here that didn’t even know Brighton had a football team when I came here 20 years ago! They do now.

 

[Zeberdi]

FWIW, Buononatte has definitely shone more than him. Enciso has barely had a chance to but has credit in the bank. Adingra has been similar but has given a bit more in output than him. Ferguson has contributed less, I’d agree.

FWIW - neither Facu, Ferguson nor Adingra have had their season interrupted for 9 weeks by a hamstring injury on top of the sort of career changing injury that Fati is still rehabbing from.

Fati has ‘credit in the bank’ - more than Enciso - but it’s with Barcelona where he was considered a teenage prodigy, debuting with the senior squad at age 16 in 2019 and the closest thing they’d produced to Messi for years - Fati was the youngest goalscorer in the Club’s history (and later in the CL) before a meniscus tear took him out 14 months later, which was compounded by repeated corrective operations and subsequent injuries - including hamstrings while the cruciate ligaments were compensating. All before the age of 20.

His wages are a reflection of how good his agent is and how much Barcelona have ridiculously over valued their player

His wages are probably more a reflection of where he was before his knee injury I suspect - Barca obviously hoped his 12 months loan at Brighton would bring him back up to pre-injury condition so they could sell him on for what he should be worth based on his 2019 performances (there was no room in the Barca squad for him and Barca could not afford to keep paying his wages if he wasn’t playing). We obviously hoped that by getting him on loan, he would prove very important for us as the season progressed if he regained his level of condition - clearly getting yet another injury during the loan period wasn’t in anyone’s calculations.

I think the best thing personally would be for Brighton to work out an extended loan period with Barca for another season at a reduced wage burden on us and see where things are in 2024/5 - the alternative would be for Barca to sell him off cheap in the summer still very much under par from his previous form - that would be a gamble for them if Fati recovers even 75% to a pre-injury level after any such transfer.

 

[DJ NOBO]

If he wasn't a loan signing, and hadn't had the Barcelona background, I think we'd be happy with the contribution that a 21-year-old had made, with potential for improvement.

Yes it's disappointing that he's not the world-beater that we hoped he would be, but he clearly has talent, is young, and will likely have a successful career in the top leagues.

If the money was right I'd be happy if we signed him

If all things were equal you‘d have a point , but another 21 year old , say a graduate from the youth team, would be getting paid a tiny tiny fraction of what Fati reportedly is.
That’s not Fati’s fault (he must have a good agent) but presumably when we agreed to pay him the amount we did, relative to other players, we expected his contribution to the team to be proportional.
I also think you’re being generous about his future prospects. at this point he is more likely to fade off to a random league and then obscurity. He will have it all prove if he wants a top career, if he fails to make impression at Brighton.
But like you, I would also be happy if we signed him permanently if the money was right. It never will be though, because he’s on massive money and probably isn’t inclined to take a big pay cut.
Who can blame him?

 

[Zeberdi]

If all things were equal you‘d have a point , but another 21 year old , say a graduate from the youth team, would be getting paid a tiny tiny fraction of what Fati reportedly is.

He’s not a graduate from our youth team though is he? Fati already had the beginning of a stunning career and was regarded as one of the top rising youth players in Europe. He is an international player and played no10 for one of the largest clubs in Europe, including at Champions League level so of course was on top wages.

That’s not Fati’s fault (he must have a good agent) but presumably when we agreed to pay him the amount we did, relative to other players, we expected his contribution to the team to be proportional.

He is on the wage he is with us because that was what Barca had him on and presumably expected to take him back, injury free and rehabbed at the end of the loan. The only reason we had him was because he couldn‘t get a regular starting place back with Barca while at his current level of fitness but he was good enough to for them last season.

I also think you’re being generous about his future prospects. at this point he is more likely to fade off to a random league and then obscurity.

Sorry but that’s just ridiculously harsh - Barca will likely sell him in the summer for £30-40 million to another Premier League club or a lower level La Liega if they decide not to loan him out again - regardless of his progress stalling at this stage, he’s still Premier League/La Liga level, just not the very top of either. There’s time for him to come back, he’s still only 21.

He will have it all prove if he wants a top career, if he fails to make impression at Brighton.

You make it sound as if he has no history. Not withstanding making a World-wide impression before he did his meniscus, he has already made an impression at Brighton - Maldera said when he was ready to come back after his hamstring: “He has big energy and for us he is a very important player because of his quality. In the first part of the season you will remember in the Europa League he scored goals and he is very important for us.”

But like you, I would also be happy if we signed him permanently if the money was right.

Barca would probably want more than we would be prepared to pay either as a transfer fee or in terms of wage structure - I would have to ask though, why would you want us anyway to sign a player who you think is likely to ‘fade off to a random league and then into obscurity’? Surely we are better than that?

Physically, he still has a way to go before his condition is up to the level it needs to be but the talent and quality is still there. I suspect some mental reconditioning is required too, this loan was supposed to be his comeback chance, it can’t have been easy for the young player to have 2.5 months off for yet another injury in the middle of that.

 

[dazzer6666]

He’s not a graduate from our youth team though is he? Fati already had the beginning of a stunning career and was regarded as one of the top rising youth players in Europe. He is an international player and played no10 for one of the largest clubs in Europe, including at Champions League level so of course was on top wages.

He is on the wage he is with us because that was what Barca had him on and presumably expected to take him back, injury free and rehabbed at the end of the loan. The only reason we had him was because he couldn‘t get a regular starting place back with Barca while at his current level of fitness but he was good enough to for them last season.

Sorry but that’s just ridiculously harsh - Barca will likely sell him in the summer for £30-40 million to another Premier League club or a lower level La Liega if they decide not to loan him out again - regardless of his progress stalling at this stage, he’s still Premier League/La Liga level, just not the very top of either. There’s time for him to come back, he’s still only 21.

You make it sound as if he has no history. Not withstanding making a World-wide impression before he did his meniscus, he has already made an impression at Brighton - Maldera said when he was ready to come back after his hamstring: “He has big energy and for us he is a very important player because of his quality. In the first part of the season you will remember in the Europa League he scored goals and he is very important for us.”


Barca would probably want more than we would be prepared to pay either as a transfer fee or in terms of wage structure - I would have to ask though, why would you want us anyway to sign a player who you think is likely to ‘fade off to a random league and then into obscurity’? Surely we are better than that?

Physically, he still has a way to go before his condition is up to the level it needs to be but the talent and quality is still there. I suspect some mental reconditioning is required too, this loan was supposed to be his comeback chance, it can’t have been easy for the young player to have 2.5 months off for yet another injury in the middle of that.

No use coming on here with rational, well-constructed, logical discussion.........

 

[billhems]

I think Ansu's been class for us. Came on against Roma at 53 mins and put two perfect crosses in from the left before going central when Adingra swapped to left wing and nearly scoring from there, and people sitting around me were saying he'd done f all.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

FWIW - neither Facu, Ferguson nor Adingra have had their season interrupted for 9 weeks by a hamstring injury on top of the sort of career changing injury that Fati is still rehabbing from.

Fati has ‘credit in the bank’ - more than Enciso - but it’s with Barcelona where he was considered a teenage prodigy, debuting with the senior squad at age 16 in 2019 and the closest thing they’d produced to Messi for years - Fati was the youngest goalscorer in the Club’s history (and later in the CL) before a meniscus tear took him out 14 months later, which was compounded by repeated corrective operations and subsequent injuries - including hamstrings while the cruciate ligaments were compensating. All before the age of 20.

His wages are probably more a reflection of where he was before his knee injury I suspect - Barca obviously hoped his 12 months loan at Brighton would bring him back up to pre-injury condition so they could sell him on for what he should be worth based on his 2019 performances (there was no room in the Barca squad for him and Barca could not afford to keep paying his wages if he wasn’t playing). We obviously hoped that by getting him on loan, he would prove very important for us as the season progressed if he regained his level of condition - clearly getting yet another injury during the loan period wasn’t in anyone’s calculations.

I think the best thing personally would be for Brighton to work out an extended loan period with Barca for another season at a reduced wage burden on us and see where things are in 2024/5 - the alternative would be for Barca to sell him off cheap in the summer still very much under par from his previous form - that would be a gamble for them if Fati recovers even 75% to a pre-injury level after any such transfer.

Precisely. Everything about the loan was right. Unfortunately the £7mil gamble didn't work out quite how we would have liked.

It worked out far better than others though. Locardia, for example. And the last time I looked Webster was the over age player in an under 21s 1-4 defeat.

Also, usefully, it allows our players to feel what it is like having a £150K a week player in the squad. Do they sulk? Do they demand a pay rise? Or do they think, if we bring in a permanent signing on that sort of money, depending on who it is of course, presumably a pwopa 'name', "Brighton are going places and I want to be part of it"? I would.

 

[Stat Brother]

I think Ansu's been class for us. Came on against Roma at 53 mins and put two perfect crosses in from the left before going central when Adingra swapped to left wing and nearly scoring from there, and people sitting around me were saying he'd done f all.

Get used to it - that'll be the only narrative for the next 10 games.

 

[DJ NOBO]

He’s not a graduate from our youth team though is he? Fati already had the beginning of a stunning career and was regarded as one of the top rising youth players in Europe. He is an international player and played no10 for one of the largest clubs in Europe, including at Champions League level so of course was on top wages.

He is on the wage he is with us because that was what Barca had him on and presumably expected to take him back, injury free and rehabbed at the end of the loan. The only reason we had him was because he couldn‘t get a regular starting place back with Barca while at his current level of fitness but he was good enough to for them last season.

Sorry but that’s just ridiculously harsh - Barca will likely sell him in the summer for £30-40 million to another Premier League club or a lower level La Liega if they decide not to loan him out again - regardless of his progress stalling at this stage, he’s still Premier League/La Liga level, just not the very top of either. There’s time for him to come back, he’s still only 21.

You make it sound as if he has no history. Not withstanding making a World-wide impression before he did his meniscus, he has already made an impression at Brighton - Maldera said when he was ready to come back after his hamstring: “He has big energy and for us he is a very important player because of his quality. In the first part of the season you will remember in the Europa League he scored goals and he is very important for us.”


Barca would probably want more than we would be prepared to pay either as a transfer fee or in terms of wage structure - I would have to ask though, why would you want us anyway to sign a player who you think is likely to ‘fade off to a random league and then into obscurity’? Surely we are better than that?

Physically, he still has a way to go before his condition is up to the level it needs to be but the talent and quality is still there. I suspect some mental reconditioning is required too, this loan was supposed to be his comeback chance, it can’t have been easy for the young player to have 2.5 months off for yet another injury in the middle of that.

That’s a hell of reply zeb and I enjoyed reading it. Forgive me not responding bit by bit.



Re his future -

Barca have form in getting through young talents . Remember that lad at stoke , bojan (?) ? He was the next big thing aged 17 . Now playing ….somewhere .

Not saying I want that for fati or that he is doomed to that fate , just that it is not an outlandish thing to write . there is direct precedent .

Imo he’s been crap for us so far. The odd flash of quality but Very limited and can’t beat defenders . He also doesn’t seem to position myself where the manager wants him. That’s not being a team Player , which doesn’t endear him to me much either.



That said he was exceptional at Barca for a bit so , I would be happy to sign him permanently if the money was right .

I don’t see why you struggle with someone having these two views at the same time.

 

[Dave the OAP]

I think Ansu's been class for us. Came on against Roma at 53 mins and put two perfect crosses in from the left before going central when Adingra swapped to left wing and nearly scoring from there, and people sitting around me were saying he'd done f all.

People see what they want to see.

we forget, he came with a reputation for being injured , he was settling in and then got crocked for 3 months and people expect him to be like pele when coming back!

having said all that, who would want to be a forward in a side that does not spot darting runs and prefers to flick the ball about in front of goal instead of shooting!

apart from Danny “ one goal in 15 attempts”welbeck , fati’s shot that the keeper tipped over was a glimps of what we can do whenwe have a go…forgetting Billy’s shot from the penalty spot that cleared the bar by miles!

 

[Flounce]

Precisely. Everything about the loan was right. Unfortunately the £7mil gamble HASN’T YET worked out quite how we would have liked, BUT IT MAY DO BY SEASON’S END.

It worked out far better than others though. Locardia, for example. And the last time I looked Webster was the over age player in an under 21s 1-4 defeat.

Also, usefully, it allows our players to feel what it is like having a £150K a week player in the squad. Do they sulk? Do they demand a pay rise? Or do they think, if we bring in a permanent signing on that sort of money, depending on who it is of course, presumably a pwopa 'name', "Brighton are going places and I want to be part of it"? I would.

Corrected for you

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Corrected for you

Indeed

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

@Zeberdi I accept your point on his injury recovery, but taking this discussion on a bit, where do we play him for the remainder of the season?

He looks nothing like the kind of winger RDZ likes to use and I assume he doesn’t particularly want to play there either, thus he drifts inside too much, overcrowding the middle and leaving us without a wide outlet.

This means he probably has to play as a 10, so who gets moved from that role? Buononatte has really started to blossom there so it’d be a shame to push him back out wide where he is unsuited. Enciso is also showing signs of life again and has proven he can produce, while Pedro is pretty much undroppable if he returns after the break. So I guess he gets rotated between them for that 10 role, unless in the unlikely event RDZ decides to try something completely new.

This is why I’ve said that if he was signed as someone who would be effective as a left winger - which is where he had played most of his games at Barca - then it doesn’t look great on the recruitment team or RDZ either, as he really doesn’t look like the type of winger suited to RDZ’s style of play.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

He’s not a graduate from our youth team though is he? Fati already had the beginning of a stunning career and was regarded as one of the top rising youth players in Europe. He is an international player and played no10 for one of the largest clubs in Europe, including at Champions League level so of course was on top wages.

He is on the wage he is with us because that was what Barca had him on and presumably expected to take him back, injury free and rehabbed at the end of the loan. The only reason we had him was because he couldn‘t get a regular starting place back with Barca while at his current level of fitness but he was good enough to for them last season.

Sorry but that’s just ridiculously harsh - Barca will likely sell him in the summer for £30-40 million to another Premier League club or a lower level La Liega if they decide not to loan him out again - regardless of his progress stalling at this stage, he’s still Premier League/La Liga level, just not the very top of either. There’s time for him to come back, he’s still only 21.

You make it sound as if he has no history. Not withstanding making a World-wide impression before he did his meniscus, he has already made an impression at Brighton - Maldera said when he was ready to come back after his hamstring: “He has big energy and for us he is a very important player because of his quality. In the first part of the season you will remember in the Europa League he scored goals and he is very important for us.”


Barca would probably want more than we would be prepared to pay either as a transfer fee or in terms of wage structure - I would have to ask though, why would you want us anyway to sign a player who you think is likely to ‘fade off to a random league and then into obscurity’? Surely we are better than that?

Physically, he still has a way to go before his condition is up to the level it needs to be but the talent and quality is still there. I suspect some mental reconditioning is required too, this loan was supposed to be his comeback chance, it can’t have been easy for the young player to have 2.5 months off for yet another injury in the middle of that.

Perfect points across the board, and politely made

It looks to me that the injuries are holding him back. But that's pure guesswork.

I'm more interested in whether we can build on the second half performance against Roma to carve out some wins against tough opposition as the season reaches a climax.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

@Zeberdi I accept your point on his injury recovery, but taking this discussion on a bit, where do we play him for the remainder of the season?

He looks nothing like the kind of winger RDZ likes to use and I assume he doesn’t particularly want to play there either, thus he drifts inside too much, overcrowding the middle and leaving us without a wide outlet.

This means he probably has to play as a 10, so who gets moved from that role? Buononatte has really started to blossom there so it’d be a shame to push him back out wide where he is unsuited. Enciso is also showing signs of life again and has proven he can produce, while Pedro is pretty much undroppable if he returns after the break. So I guess he gets rotated between them for that 10 role, unless in the unlikely event RDZ decides to try something completely new.

This is why I’ve said that if he was signed as someone who would be effective as a left winger - which is where he had played most of his games at Barca - then it doesn’t look great on the recruitment team or RDZ either, as he really doesn’t look like the type of winger suited to RDZ’s style of play.

Good questions. With JP out why not try him as a centre forward? If his pace isn't recovered, drop him (where? where?)..... .

Tricky.

 

[DJ NOBO]

Strange and very oddly generalised thing to say. What makes you think I’m ‘struggling’ - jeez I’m just disagreeing with much of what you say because you seem to think he’s a kid straight out of the academy with no previous success and have effectively written him off because he’s recovering from a serious injury that’s all. He was already beginning to show his previous form before getting a hamstring injury


Perhaps you missed the last paragraph of my post - I said he still is not up to the level we need both physically and mentally - I would suggest that is very much a mixed assessment my post conveyed wouldn’t you?

Let’s see where he’s at by the summer window but I can imagine there will be a few offers for him coming from Premier League or La Liga clubs.

Because in your initial reply you asked why I would want us to permanently sign a player I’d written some unfavourable things about

 

[DJ NOBO]

Strange and very oddly generalised thing to say. What makes you think I’m ‘struggling’ - jeez I’m just disagreeing with much of what you say because you seem to think he’s a kid straight out of the academy with no previous success and have effectively written him off because he’s recovering from a serious injury that’s all. He was already beginning to show his previous form before getting a hamstring injury


Perhaps you missed the last paragraph of my post - I said he still is not up to the level we need both physically and mentally - I would suggest that is very much a mixed assessment my post conveyed wouldn’t you?

Lets see where he’s at by the summer window but I can imagine there will be a few offers for him coming from Premier League or La Liga clubs.

Re your points about fati’s background . Yep , aware of all of it . And not disputing any of it .

I found that reply confusing more than anything . I’m not sure how it disproves my response to some other poster but there you go.

 

[Taybha]

Well I'd take him for 30-35 million if he was going to be sold, he's a kid who's naturally gifted and will go on to be a superstar,any good relationship we can build with him and Barcelona is very beneficial to us,and very much worth the punt.
I actually think it may well work in our favour he's not been the Wonderboy touted but a working progress and very much a player I'd love to have in the squad going forward.
Absolute baller but if anyone asks he's shite and should go to Leeds to make him a real player.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Where he fits with us is a headache for RDZ not for me - but unless we have him as a permanent member of the squad, he won’t be replacing anyone. Even if we did offer to buy him at the end of the loan period, it would be with a view to deepening the squad - by definition, that involves more rotational play from everyone especially if we qualify for Europe again.

We won’t be signing him permanently because he’d surely not want to reduce his salary by £70kpw (or whatever astronomical sum Barca are paying him extra to our salary ceiling).

Don’t fear though.

This could be his replacement (for us, not Barca!).

 

[Zeberdi]

We won’t be signing him permanently because he’d surely not want to reduce his salary by £70kpw (or whatever astronomical sum Barca are paying him extra to our salary ceiling).

I agree that’s unlikely and certainly not on those terms - I said as much earlier ( and before on this thread too) but just responding to a few posters that think we might. There are rumours Barca might try and offer us a deal that involves Mitoma -there are rumours Man U might be interested - who knows - all smoke and mirrors at the moment.

As I said above, unless he he can get back his original pre-meniscus form, Barca may let him go for between £30-40 m to a big Premier League Club like Man U or Liverpool who could afford to pay closer to his expected wage structure or just negotiate another loan deal. He’s obviously not going to get up to the £90-120 level Barca wants with us - not just with 10 matches left and him recovering from an additional injury