another nail in the tory coffin

[mikeyjh]

Search the web and you'll find it.

I've searched, can't find anything to suggest that Ed Miliband 'ejected disabled people from disabled seats'

 

[A mex eyecan]

Errm.. I maybe being a little slow here, but exactly who decides that simple unskilled manual work is only worth a wage below the minimum level? If the majority of wealth is earned by a tiny minority, then surely there must be something wrong with the wage structure in this country? How is it possible in this day and age for someone doing a full time job (40 hours or more of unskilled or otherwise) to not be paid enough to cover the lowest rent, heating, clothing, council tax and food bills? Why are so many people who work full time having to claim benefits in order to get by?

Surely if an employer cannot afford to give an employee a livable wage, then that business isn't a viable one?

the last line of this post it typical and utter misguided bullshit reply from a view point that really fails to see any other perspective about businesses and what their owners do, and try to do. Not just for their own ends but for the ends of their employees.

I have a business that I started 10 years or so ago. For the first 18 months I earned in every single case less than the lowest paid of my employees. The reasoning being that I knew that sacrifices made in early days would initially allow me to employ more people, this in turn would help the business grow, and then we could reinvest more money into the business creating more jobs.

after about 5 years the business had generated 10 new posts. I by then paid myself equal to the highest pain member of staff, before you shout this was a massive 17k a year. For this money my employees works 8.30 to 4.30 Monday Friday.
I though started work at 6.00 am, left the office around 7.00pm, went home and then started work finding new potential customers. By the way my working week was now Monday to Saturday rather than the previous pattern of Monday to Sunday. How dare I take more money for less work!

After 7 to 8 years we had grown our business to a turnover in excess of 2m. Nett profits were circa 100k. I suppose I could have decided to take the money, as I'm sure you will already be viewing me as a capitalistic pig, after all I do run my own company, so I must be. However I drew 15 percent as a one off bonus, donated 15 percent to local charities and reinvested the rest. Moved to a larger premises, paid my workers a bonus each.

The the recession hit just about every business world wide, and believe me I am not bemoaning my lot, I'm just facing economic realities.
I had choices to make, being hit by more customers demanding ever lower prices. I could easily have shed a job or two, made the others work harder and drew the same money myself. This is was not a consideration for us.

We took the view that the first cut should be made by the owners salaries, that is both me and my wife. We had the benefits if things were good, we had to expect to be the first to tighten our belts. Our staff had a pay freeze, but at least every one kept their jobs. Profits at Year end have dropped to retained profits of just 20k.

Things have been similar now for 4 years, but we have managed to keep everyone employed, no redundancies, no wage cuts, no exploiting their good will. My income has dropped year on year to make this happen. Hopefully we will soon turn a corner, and profits will rise. I will obviously look to try and earn more for myself, what an arse that will make me !

So as for your stupid comment that my business should not exist if we can't afford to pay more I ask this, what's is the better option, do all you can to protect your staffs employment, reduce your own already realistic earning and post an almost break even accounts, or say, oh well we are not viable business now, let's shut it down, make staff redundant and make them reliant on the state, and take the shareholders out of the business. We had the good times lets get out whilst the assets sipuit my own ends.

I doubt if you will understand my reasoning, I don't know if you have ever tried to run a business yourself, or if you have always been an employee but your simplistic, totally wrong theory proves all there is wrong with our society, namely you can't see beyond the end of your nose ...

 

[mikeyjh]

Errm.. I maybe being a little slow here, but exactly who decides that simple unskilled manual work is only worth a wage below the minimum level? If the majority of wealth is earned by a tiny minority, then surely there must be something wrong with the wage structure in this country? How is it possible in this day and age for someone doing a full time job (40 hours or more of unskilled or otherwise) to not be paid enough to cover the lowest rent, heating, clothing, council tax and food bills? Why are so many people who work full time having to claim benefits in order to get by?

Surely if an employer cannot afford to give an employee a livable wage, then that business isn't a viable one?

This, ad infinitum

 

[A mex eyecan]

This, ad infinitum

I also refer you to my previous post,

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Errm.. I maybe being a little slow here, but exactly who decides that simple unskilled manual work is only worth a wage below the minimum level? If the majority of wealth is earned by a tiny minority, then surely there must be something wrong with the wage structure in this country? How is it possible in this day and age for someone doing a full time job (40 hours or more of unskilled or otherwise) to not be paid enough to cover the lowest rent, heating, clothing, council tax and food bills? Why are so many people who work full time having to claim benefits in order to get by?

Surely if an employer cannot afford to give an employee a livable wage, then that business isn't a viable one?

Totally agree.

 

[beorhthelm]

All the supermarkets are doing the same , paying about 30p to 40p an hour above the national minimum wage , as a result 90% on the basic grade receive state benefits to top up their wages.

silly isnt it. what should happen is the supermarkets employ fewer, on longer part-time hours so those top up benefits arent necessary. i recall 70% of supermarket employees are part time and when surveyed would like to work more hours, so win win. except those not getting any.

that not what you really want though, is it?

 

[A mex eyecan]

and you would do what? close the businesses down that manage to hang in in there and see people made redundant? or support the efforts to keep things going through some tought times but keep staff employed?

 

[KNC]

Careful what you say on this thread. You might get banned.
If it bothers you.

 

[A mex eyecan]

Careful what you say on this thread. You might get banned.
If it bothers you.

 

[mikeyjh]

I also refer you to my previous post,

Read. Reiterate my comment, if you can't pay yourself or your employees a proper wage, maybe you're in the wrong business.

 

[A mex eyecan]

Read. Reiterate my comment, if you can't pay yourself or your employees a proper wage, maybe you're in the wrong business.

you can't or won't consider a different view point to your own will you?

 

[A mex eyecan]

Read. Reiterate my comment, if you can't pay yourself or your employees a proper wage, maybe you're in the wrong business.

also, I have not said what my employees are currently paid, you are making assumptions it is still circa 17k, it's considerably higher than that ..

as for what I pay myself that is of no concern of anyone else, yourself included

My point was that in some instance people run businesses with more than their own interests at heart. You though can't se that can you?

 

[Triggaaar]

To have someone like in any kind of position of power terrifies me. How can ANYBODY not be worth the minimal wage? **** me.

Many people do some difficult and worthwhile jobs without pay, because they're good people that want to help. Others do some tough jobs on a minimum wage. There are also some minimum wage jobs that are not tough at all, they are comparatively easy. Unfortunately, there are some people that are unable to do these jobs as well as those that have the jobs. For those people, unemployment is the only option. I don't see what's so wonderful and giving about making people unemployable, and I can see that there is an argument for alternative options.

Of course you can put a political spin on this to suit your political persuasion.

 

[A mex eyecan]

Many people do some difficult and worthwhile jobs without pay, because they're good people that want to help. Others do some tough jobs on a minimum wage. There are also some minimum wage jobs that are not tough at all, they are comparatively easy. Unfortunately, there are some people that are unable to do these jobs as well as those that have the jobs. For those people, unemployment is the only option. I don't see what's so wonderful and giving about making people unemployable, and I can see that there is an argument for alternative options
Of course you can put a political spin on this to suit your political persuasion.[/QUOTE

a very valid point indeed,and one that certain posters fail to even consider before making glib posts.
every job has a fair rate of pay, after all a rocket scientist would command a higher salary than a storeman for example.
If an employer pays a good, or better rate of pay for a given role the they are doing their fair bit to help.

 

[WATFORD zero]

also, I have not said what my employees are currently paid, you are making assumptions it is still circa 17k, it's considerably higher than that ..

as for what I pay myself that is of no concern of anyone else, yourself included

My point was that in some instance people run businesses with more than their own interests at heart. You though can't se that can you?

I think, from what you have said on here, that you are doing an excellent job in very trying circumstances. But trust me, having experienced SMEs and large corporates you are very far removed from senior and middle management of the companies that are being talked about here. What makes you different is this

My point was that in some instance people run businesses with more than their own interests at heart.

I agree with you and have run small businesses for the same reason, but always paid a reasonable LIVING wage, regardless of what the law says. What is being talked about here are people and organisations that can't be trusted to be that honest.

 

[clippedgull]

£56 a week carer allowance I get

Really. You should query that, it's £61.35 per week currently. Paltry I agree.

 

[A mex eyecan]

I think, from what you have said on here, that you are doing an excellent job in very trying circumstances. But trust me, having experienced SMEs and large corporates you are very far removed from senior and middle management of the companies that are being talked about here. What makes you different is this

My point was that in some instance people run businesses with more than their own interests at heart.

Thanks Watford, I have to admit to being peed off with a certain poster on here .. small minded and simplistic posts ...

 

[mikeyjh]

also, I have not said what my employees are currently paid, you are making assumptions it is still circa 17k, it's considerably higher than that ..

as for what I pay myself that is of no concern of anyone else, yourself included

My point was that in some instance people run businesses with more than their own interests at heart. You though can't se that can you?

Generally no, I don't think people run their business with others' interests at heart, no.

 

[A mex eyecan]

Generally no, I don't think people run their business with others' interests at heart, no.

how sad a life view that is . .

enlighten me what do you do, what do you think a decent hourly rate is

 

[South Stand Rebel]

Have you been living under a stone for the last five years? Seriously you think the tories give a shit about the poor or disabled?

http://www.oxfam.org/sites/www.oxfam.org/files/cs-true-cost-austerity-inequality-uk-120913-en.pdf