Another loss!! When will they learn [JFC]

[Working class pride]

[/B]

Excuse me for jumping in ...are you drawing a distinction between ''the players have to understand that'' and ''I actually think the players know that''..?
I am glad you say ''players'' because isn't that the point that is being made...its not all about JFC...and yet people seem to pick on him ..no matter how well he has played...if you look earlier in the thread ..you will find posters, when presented with 'facts' actually had to almost retract the criticism they had made of JFC.
As regards to the starting of a thread before a ball has been kicked seems ridiculous and seems to back up that JFC is blamed no matter what

I'm not sure what the problem is. Every club has the same, just ask your mates who support other teams. Also at Brighton I would say Dean Wilkins had the same. Some people couldnt stand "Wendy" but personally I thought he was one of our better players in another shit BHA era. People have seen JFC and formed a view. I might disagree with them and might you, but they are entitled to it. Its up to JFC to prove them wrong and win them around. As for my two penneth, Ive said, Ive seen worse players than JFC play for us but that doesnt say much. I dont even think he is any worse than we have at the moment, but again, that doesnt say much either, just look at the league table. But any whinging by a player who wishes to get a victim complex will get no sympathy from me. Its up to all the players, iimprove or expect to get stick, justified or not. Not many clubs get 25000/30,000 for a relegation scrap in the Championship and so they can expect more stick as a result. Its just how it is. If JFC gets broad shoulders about it then it might be the making of him as a player and as an indvidual. As for the latter, he seems to be dealing with the stick well, and thats a credit to him. He now needs to think how he can improve on his qualities that are, keeping the ball. I actually think he has it in him, but he has to do it, we cant do it for him. Until then, he can and will get stick.

 

[bhawoddy]

Lol...it was discussed on this thread or another after the match ...like you i'm not going back over the thread
Post was i think by Thunder Bolt ...maybe Acker and another....even BW was taken by surprise....cant help more at the moment

Ah no worries....not trying to catch you out BTW either.....lol

 

[LamieRobertson]

Ah no worries....not trying to catch you out BTW either.....lol

Thats okay..I didnt thing you were...as an aside if Baldock is fit next saturday ...it will be interesting to see if JFC does indeed play.
Bringing Tex back in to play just behind COG or Best..2 wide ..then the 2 holding ..wont leave a place for him....we shall see!

 

[bhawoddy]

Thats okay..I didnt thing you were...as an aside if Baldock is fit next saturday ...it will be interesting to see if JFC does indeed play.
Bringing Tex back in to play just behind COG or Best..2 wide ..then the 2 holding ..wont leave a place for him....we shall see!

Jfc would be far better suited playing a deeper holding role with 2 more dynamic, attacking/creative types in front of him IMO. Unfortunately, we don't have that luxury currently. Personally I don't like 2 holding players but when your short of the right kind of players, you have to go with what you've got.

 

[northstandsteve]

With Kayal, Stephens & Lua Lua all likely to be available next week the midfield slots will be interesting.

 

[BensGrandad]

With Kayal, Stephens & Lua Lua all likely to be available next week the midfield slots will be interesting.

I dont think any of those 3 will be risked for 90 mins. The most likely to start if any would be Kayal.

 

[Philzo-93]

Jfc would be far better suited playing a deeper holding role with 2 more dynamic, attacking/creative types in front of him IMO. Unfortunately, we don't have that luxury currently. Personally I don't like 2 holding players but when your short of the right kind of players, you have to go with what you've got.

Yeah he played that role under Hyypia and was shocking. Someone I know who is with OPTA said that he plays when he has the option to move more freely forward - strangely only in England U21 games however.

I like JFC and think he is a talent - he must be doing something right in the training ground. Unfortunately mentality is a different game and it doesn't come round the corner sadly. I hope that changes and think he improves mentally so he can show exactly what he is made of because I think he will be a fantastic asset to the club in the long run he just needs that push/mental strength to show that.

 

[bhawoddy]

Yeah he played that role under Hyypia and was shocking. Someone I know who is with OPTA said that he plays when he has the option to move more freely forward - strangely only in England U21 games however.

I like JFC and think he is a talent - he must be doing something right in the training ground. Unfortunately mentality is a different game and it doesn't come round the corner sadly. I hope that changes and think he improves mentally so he can show exactly what he is made of because I think he will be a fantastic asset to the club in the long run he just needs that push/mental strength to show that.

Arguably he has been worse since he's played in front of the 2 holding. I'm merely pointing out where I think he's better placed with the talent he does possess, but he needs the right players to play around him. He hasn't had this and that's why he's been below par IMO.

 

[Philzo-93]

Arguably he has been worse since he's played in front of the 2 holding. I'm merely pointing out where I think he's better placed with the talent he does possess, but he needs the right players to play around him. He hasn't had this and that's why he's been below par IMO.

I think it only works well for him with a box-to-box midfielder like Crofty...sadly we have not really seen that sort of talent for a while. Sadly I think he should be benched for a bit so he can just relax a bit and reflect for a bit. Stephens, Kaz and Kayal will bring a test to his mental strength that he needs to seriously show under Hughton otherwise he won't be interested.

 

[bhawoddy]

I think it only works well for him with a box-to-box midfielder like Crofty...sadly we have not really seen that sort of talent for a while. Sadly I think he should be benched for a bit so he can just relax a bit and reflect for a bit. Stephens, Kaz and Kayal will bring a test to his mental strength that he needs to seriously show under Hughton otherwise he won't be interested.

Looking forward to seeing kayal perform but I'm sure I read somewhere he was a holding type......I'm sure someone with greater knowledge of the player will enlighten me.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Dont blame the fans. He needs a rest. Didums. Really, stop finding excuses. That one is almost as poor an excuse as "he is young" when Rooney and Owen ripped apart the Euros and world cups when in their teens. If you are good enough, you areold enough. Too tired ? All he does all year is play a few games of football, get the summer off and knock off training at lunch time. Our players lost to the bottom side in the Championship, the players have been shite all year and still 29000 pay to watch Fulham at home. The players need to be told and so they are being told. They have not been good enough. Take it, accepts it, do something about it or be transferred out of the club. As for Barnes, both he and CMS missed too many chances and they were told so. That's just how it is.

This sort of post shows exactly why the criticism.

It's not about the player or what they do on the pitch, but more to do with the bitterness felt by some about having to pay high prices to see a match and that they are also jeolous of football players earnings and lifestyles, hence the hostility and need to have a scapegoat to vent their bitterness and frustrations upon.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

That includes Capital Cup games against Cheltenham and Swindon.

JFK has played 23 league games this year and we average 0.913 points in those games. We average 1.6 points per game in the 5 games he hasn't played.

I don't think that Jake is a bad player, he is just not creative or dominant enough to do the important job he has been asked to do in our set up. He keeps the ball and does the simple thing, but he is not as good a defensive midfielder as Ince or Holla, or as good a creative midfielder as March, Tex or KLL, so it is hard to understand why he has played so often this year. Gardner was the same sort of player and also got picked again and again in front of more effective midfielders.

In terms of fairness, would you please provide us with similar stats for all of the players that have featured for us so far this season.

I suspect others will have similar stats given our first half of the season

 

[Acker79]

In terms of fairness, would you please provide us with similar stats for all of the players that have featured for us so far this season.

I suspect others will have similar stats given our first half of the season

Points Per Game With ... Player ... Ppg Without
2.00 … Christian Walton … 0.96
1.50 … Greg Halford … 0.85
1.50 … Kemy Agustien … 1.00
1.50 … Leon Best … 1.00
1.40 … Adam Chicksen … 0.96
1.26 … Inigo Calderon … 0.56
1.25 … Rohan Ince … 0.50
1.21 … Danny Holla … 0.67
1.18 … Craig Mackail-Smith … 0.82
1.17 … Joao Teixeira … 0.80
1.14 … Elliott Bennett … 1.00
1.10 … Solly March … 1.00
1.09 … Gordon Greer … 0.83
1.09 … Joe Bennett … 0.80
1.08 … Chris O'Grady … 1.00
1.06 … Bruno Saltor … 1.00
1.04 … Lewis Dunk … 1.00
1.00 … Andrew Crofts … 1.05
1.00 … Aaron Hughes … 1.06
1.00 … Sam Baldock … 1.08
1.00 … David Stockdale … 1.33
0.94 … Kazenga LuaLua … 1.20
0.92 … Jake Forster-Caskey … 1.75
0.76 … Gary Gardner … 1.45
0.71 … Adrian Colunga … 1.55
0.70 … Paddy McCourt … 1.22
0.40 … Darren Bent … 1.17
0.00 … Ali Al-Habsi … 1.07
0.00 … Will Buckley … 1.07
0.00 … Shamir Fenelon … 1.12

Ranked by most points with, then fewest points without​

The team as a whole averages 1.04 points per game as of today.

 

[Acker79]

And to not penalise the players who weren't here for games, this is the same chart but only including the games that players didn't play in while they were on in our squad. (e.g., Will Buckley was only with us for the first two games of the season, and only on was a league game, Leon Best has been with us for two league games)

PPG W ... Player ... PPG WO
2.00 … Christian Walton … 0.96
1.50 … Greg Halford … 0.80
1.50 … Kemy Agustien … 1.00
1.50 … Leon Best … -
1.40 … Adam Chicksen … 0.96
1.26 … Inigo Calderon … 0.56
1.25 … Rohan Ince … 0.50
1.21 … Danny Holla … 0.86
1.18 … Craig Mackail-Smith … 1.14
1.17 … Joao Teixeira … 0.89
1.14 … Elliott Bennett … 1.00
1.10 … Solly March … 1.00
1.09 … Gordon Greer … 0.83
1.09 … Joe Bennett … 0.50
1.08 … Chris O'Grady … 1.11
1.06 … Bruno Saltor … 0.91
1.04 … Lewis Dunk … 1.00
1.00 … Sam Baldock … 0.89
1.00 … Andrew Crofts … 1.05
1.00 … Aaron Hughes … 1.06
1.00 … David Stockdale … 1.33
0.94 … Kazenga LuaLua … 1.20
0.92 … Jake Forster-Caskey … 1.75
0.76 … Gary Gardner … 1.43
0.71 … Adrian Colunga … 1.83
0.70 … Paddy McCourt … 1.38
0.40 … Darren Bent … 1.71
0.00 … Ali Al-Habsi … 1.25
0.00 … Shamir Fenelon … 1.50
0.00 … Will Buckley … -
​

 

[Justice]

This sort of post shows exactly why the criticism.

It's not about the player or what they do on the pitch, but more to do with the bitterness felt by some about having to pay high prices to see a match and that they are also jeolous of football players earnings and lifestyles, hence the hostility and need to have a scapegoat to vent their bitterness and frustrations upon.

Two weak links in our team Calderon and Caskey, if we are serious about staying up then these two have to go sentiment in football will get you relegated. Supporters want to see players to have a go commit themselves to the cause JFC does niether Calderon tries hard but is lacking in skill at this level both have to be replaced. Its not a case of mixed loyalty or jealousy about how much a player earns, we as supporters just want to see a manager select a team that will battle and have a go at the opposition, sadly with JFC in the side we make it far to easy to play against.

 

[Earlybird]

Two weak links in our team Calderon and Caskey, if we are serious about staying up then these two have to go sentiment in football will get you relegated. Supporters want to see players to have a go commit themselves to the cause JFC does niether Calderon tries hard but is lacking in skill at this level both have to be replaced. Its not a case of mixed loyalty or jealousy about how much a player earns, we as supporters just want to see a manager select a team that will battle and have a go at the opposition, sadly with JFC in the side we make it far to easy to play against.

We havent won a single match this season when Calde didn't start and won 39% when he has, which is the highest of al our regular squad for the season.
Its the opposite stat of us winning 68% when Jake doesn't start.

Calde was brilliant v Ipswich, marauding through their midfield. They didn't know what to do with him.
I didn't go to Blackpool so cant say if he had the same impact.
Overall he's far from a weak link imo

 

[Thunder Bolt]

We havent won a single match this season when Calde didn't start and won 39% when he has, which is the highest of al our regular squad for the season.
Its the opposite stat of us winning 68% when Jake doesn't start.

Calde was brilliant v Ipswich, marauding through their midfield. They didn't know what to do with him.
I didn't go to Blackpool so cant say if he had the same impact.
Overall he's far from a weak link imo

How do you get a stat of us winning 68% when Jake doesn't start? We've won 10 games. 6 with Jake and 4 without.

 

[Earlybird]

http://www.soccerbase.com/teams/team.sd?team_id=381&teamTabs=results player filter jake.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

http://www.soccerbase.com/teams/team.sd?team_id=381&teamTabs=results player filter jake.

You're only looking at league matches. Don't say that cup matches don't count, as we beat Burton Albion who knocked QPR out.

 

[Earlybird]

No, I am including cup games.
According to soccerbase, Burton was one of the wins without Jake.

Not picking on the kid, Im simply saying theres a disproportionate amount of wins when Jake doesnt start games.
Its a bit like Bales first real season at Spurs.