[Help] Annoying neighbour dispute

[MJsGhost]

Indeed. But it is her right of way, not a right of way for her friends. It has been in use by her friends (with my tacit acceptance) only during Covid. And she is supposed to have been paying for its upkeep as part of the conditions of the right of way.

I am hoping she will agree to opening the gate herself, and not using it to let her friends into her garden once Covid restrictions are lifted. And being considerate - which means for the time being asking her guests to not peer into my house when they stumble past my house, and getting the gardener to clean the mud off the gate if they are working on her garden.

Anyway, nobody wants me as an enemy. I can be quite difficult when I put my mind to it.

I'm not entirely sure that access is strictly limited to the owner/occupier(s) of the property next door - i.e. them in person only. IMO the right is for access to their property (for their benefit), but that doesn't necessarily preclude other people (friends/family/trades etc).

I'm not an expert by any means, but remember my parents having 'discussions' with a neighbour who wanted to stop access by anyone other than them, to reduce the frequency of access. To cut a long story short, it's a rural setting with access from a main road through a gate and about 50 yds along a track at the side of a golf course to allow access to the bottom of my parent's property through another gate. The golf course wanted to lock the gate, so had to send someone to unlock it whenever my parents needed access (only 3 or 4 times a year). Someone twigged that it was only ever used to allow deliveries (usually lorry loads of manure if you're interested!) and tried to pull the 'access is for you and only you' card so they wouldn't have the bother of unlocking the gate. They were wrong. It took a letter from a solicitor, but common sense prevailed and they gave my dad a key (this had been suggested by my dad right at the start when they wanted to lock it).

Obviously, the wording detailing the easement could have been completely different (and this was about 30 years ago, so my recollection of the finer points could be a little off), but my point is simply that you shouldn't just assume that the right of access is limited to use by the neighbour(s) themselves. Seeing as you've posted at least part of the wording from the deed, someone on NSC with legal training should be able to give you proper advice...

 

[hans kraay fan club]

You can pay £3 to get an instant online copy of your deeds from Land Registry if you haven't got a copy available.

https://eservices.landregistry.gov.uk/eservices/FindAProperty/view/QuickEnquiryInit.do?_ga=2.29690111.1588897658.1618313700-271701799.1618127570

This was really well timed, and have just done this. Only helpful to a point though, in my case.

Among other things, I need to know who is responsible for which fences at the rear of our property (ie which side are we responsible for).

The Title Deeds include the following text, which suggest that this IS prescribed, but where do I actually find that information!? :

A: Property Register
This register describes the land and estate comprised in
the title.
HAMPSHIRE : EASTLEIGH
1 (29.07.2002) The Freehold land shown edged with red on the plan of the
above title filed at the Registry and being ...................
2 (29.07.2002) The land has the benefit of the rights granted by but is
subject to the rights reserved by the Conveyance dated 30 September
1970 referred to in the Charges Register.
3 (29.07.2002) The Conveyance dated 30 September 1970 referred to above
contains a provision as to boundary structures.

C: Charges Register
This register contains any charges and other matters
that affect the land.
1 (29.07.2002) A Conveyance of the land in this title dated 30 September
1970 made between (1) Southampton Builders Limited (Vendor) and (2)
Thomas Albert Webber and Irene Webber (Purchasers) contains restrictive
covenants.

 

[marcos3263]

Quite. But contrary to the opinion of some, I'm not a vindictive b'stard.

Anyway, the ultimate sanction will be me, sunbathing, by the back gate, on my own property, out of the sight of the outside world, stark bollock naked.

If only the weather would warm up.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I'm not entirely sure that access is strictly limited to the owner/occupier(s) of the property next door - i.e. them in person only. IMO the right is for access to their property (for their benefit), but that doesn't necessarily preclude other people (friends/family/trades etc).

I'm not an expert by any means, but remember my parents having 'discussions' with a neighbour who wanted to stop access by anyone other than them, to reduce the frequency of access. To cut a long story short, it's a rural setting with access from a main road through a gate and about 50 yds along a track at the side of a golf course to allow access to the bottom of my parent's property through another gate. The golf course wanted to lock the gate, so had to send someone to unlock it whenever my parents needed access (only 3 or 4 times a year). Someone twigged that it was only ever used to allow deliveries (usually lorry loads of manure if you're interested!) and tried to pull the 'access is for you and only you' card so they wouldn't have the bother of unlocking the gate. They were wrong. It took a letter from a solicitor, but common sense prevailed and they gave my dad a key (this had been suggested by my dad right at the start when they wanted to lock it).

Obviously, the wording detailing the easement could have been completely different (and this was about 30 years ago, so my recollection of the finer points could be a little off), but my point is simply that you shouldn't just assume that the right of access is limited to use by the neighbour(s) themselves. Seeing as you've posted at least part of the wording from the deed, someone on NSC with legal training should be able to give you proper advice...

Thanks. Interesting.

As I posted, the arrangement is explicitly in return for a financial contribution to upkeep (never paid nor asked for) and, until Covid, I didn't have problems and, until I put the gate up (and gave her a key) didn't have any carping from the neighbour. He main gripe, yesterday, was the 'faff' of having to open the gate for her visitors (it is usually kept bolted on the inside) and I wouldn't have quibbled about her visitors (during Covid anyway) had she not implied it is her right to have the gate open so her chums can enter round the back without bothering her.

Anyway, it looks like we won't have our chat till tomorrow so I will update then.

 

[disgruntled h blocker]

This was really well timed, and have just done this. Only helpful to a point though, in my case.

Among other things, I need to know who is responsible for which fences at the rear of our property (ie which side are we responsible for).

The Title Deeds include the following text, which suggest that this IS prescribed, but where do I actually find that information!? :

A: Property Register
This register describes the land and estate comprised in
the title.
HAMPSHIRE : EASTLEIGH
1 (29.07.2002) The Freehold land shown edged with red on the plan of the
above title filed at the Registry and being ...................
2 (29.07.2002) The land has the benefit of the rights granted by but is
subject to the rights reserved by the Conveyance dated 30 September
1970 referred to in the Charges Register.
3 (29.07.2002) The Conveyance dated 30 September 1970 referred to above
contains a provision as to boundary structures.

C: Charges Register
This register contains any charges and other matters
that affect the land.
1 (29.07.2002) A Conveyance of the land in this title dated 30 September
1970 made between (1) Southampton Builders Limited (Vendor) and (2)
Thomas Albert Webber and Irene Webber (Purchasers) contains restrictive
covenants.

Check the conveyancing pack which you were provided with when you bought the property, it should all be outline there. If not, I would speak to the solicitors who did your conveyancing to see if they still have the data in their records/archives. It really depends on how long ago it was.

 

[MJsGhost]

Thanks. Interesting.

As I posted, the arrangement is explicitly in return for a financial contribution to upkeep (never paid nor asked for) and, until Covid, I didn't have problems and, until I put the gate up (and gave her a key) didn't have any carping from the neighbour. He main gripe, yesterday, was the 'faff' of having to open the gate for her visitors (it is usually kept bolted on the inside) and I wouldn't have quibbled about her visitors (during Covid anyway) had she not implied it is her right to have the gate open so her chums can enter round the back without bothering her.

Anyway, it looks like we won't have our chat till tomorrow so I will update then.

Yeah, it was just this bit I was picking up on:

But it is her right of way, not a right of way for her friends.

You have plenty of other things to rely on when you state your case - sounds like she's being a bit of a d|ck.

Seeing as the great unwashed of NSC have become somewhat invested in the process, can we have some sort of vote on how you spend the back payments for the upkeep of the path?! There are NEVER enough polls on NSC.

Good luck!

 

[Icy Gull]

Quite. But contrary to the opinion of some, I'm not a vindictive b'stard.

Anyway, the ultimate sanction will be me, sunbathing, by the back gate, on my own property, out of the sight of the outside world, stark bollock naked.

If only the weather would warm up.

Have you considered they may take this as you suggesting to them that you are a swinger? Could be an interesting conversation.

 

[swindonseagull]

Having been your neighbour in real life for many years am I the only one feeling sorry for the lady?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Check the conveyancing pack which you were provided with when you bought the property, it should all be outline there. If not, I would speak to the solicitors who did your conveyancing to see if they still have the data in their records/archives. It really depends on how long ago it was.

Coming up for 20 years ago, so not hopeful of that.

Not sure what we were provided with (and even less hope of knowing where to look for it!)

 

[KZNSeagull]

Coming up for 20 years ago, so not hopeful of that.

Not sure what we were provided with (and even less hope of knowing where to look for it!)

Was the house built in 1970 (looks like it) and are there other houses next to you that were built at the same time? If so, it looks to me like a standard covenant to prevent purchasers from doing something to the property that would prevent the builders from selling the other houses. We had restrictive covenants on our first house which we bought new in the 90's. That doesn't really help you though.

 

[driller]

Indeed. But it is her right of way, not a right of way for her friends. It has been in use by her friends (with my tacit acceptance) only during Covid. And she is supposed to have been paying for its upkeep as part of the conditions of the right of way.

I am hoping she will agree to opening the gate herself, and not using it to let her friends into her garden once Covid restrictions are lifted. And being considerate - which means for the time being asking her guests to not peer into my house when they stumble past my house, and getting the gardener to clean the mud off the gate if they are working on her garden.

Anyway, nobody wants me as an enemy. I can be quite difficult when I put my mind to it.

She could only meet friends in her garden from 29 March
So report her to the covid police.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Was the house built in 1970 (looks like it) and are there other houses next to you that were built at the same time? If so, it looks to me like a standard covenant to prevent purchasers from doing something to the property that would prevent the builders from selling the other houses. We had restrictive covenants on our first house which we bought new in the 90's. That doesn't really help you though.

Thanks. Yes - built in 1970.

We know there is a covenant that prevents any changes (beyond repair) to the low front garden walls. More power to the builders - a few down the street have broken it in recent years, and their incongruous high fences, or faux-Americana white picket efforts look ****ing ridiculous.

I remember that there is also a covenant banning the keeping of 'wildfowl', so I've definitely SEEN the relevant info at some point, in the distant past

 

[KZNSeagull]

Thanks. Yes - built in 1970.

We know there is a covenant that prevents any changes (beyond repair) to the low front garden walls. More power to the builders - a few down the street have broken it in recent years, and their incongruous high fences, or faux-Americana white picket efforts look ****ing ridiculous.

I remember that there is also a covenant banning the keeping of 'wildfowl', so I've definitely SEEN the relevant info at some point, in the distant past

Ours included keeping caravans and no satellite dishes on the front of the house.

Isn't there a map with the deeds with arrows on it to show which boundary is each properties responsibility?

 

[PTC Gull]

Get on with it or my bloody Pringles will go soft

This.....

 

[B-right-on]

My advice:

1. Everybody needs good neighbours. Just a friendly wave each morning helps to make a better day.
2. You need to get to know each other. Next door is only a footstep away.
3. With a little understanding, you can find the perfect blend.
4. You should be there for one another. That's when good neighbours become good friends.

I'll give you the number for my mother's neighbour to try your philosophy on.

He's spat at my daughter when she was 10 years old. He calls my 77 year old mum the 'c' word to her face and has done many times.

He's been in prison for GBH, he got arrested for attempted murder by trying to run over a traffic warden for having the nerve to give him a ticket (plus he threatened to rape his wife and kill his kids). Been arrested more times than I can count for ABH. He's in his 50s and moved in 10 years ago. My mums lived there for 35 years.

Whilst I agree with your point of view, there are still a few people who are just *ankers.

 

[Change at Barnham]

When I looked at the deeds of our ten year old house I was amazed to read this:

Schedule of restrictive covenants
Register:-
"The Purchaser hereby covenants with the Vendor and the persons
deriving title under him that she the Purchaser and the persons
deriving title under her will not at any time hereafter use the
premises hereby conveyed or any part thereof or permit the same to be
used for the purpose of an asylum or institution for mental defectives
or inebriates"

WTF?

 

[MJsGhost]

I'll give you the number for my mother's neighbour to try your philosophy on.

He's spat at my daughter when she was 10 years old. He calls my 77 year old mum the 'c' word to her face and has done many times.

He's been in prison for GBH, he got arrested for attempted murder by trying to run over a traffic warden for having the nerve to give him a ticket (plus he threatened to rape his wife and kill his kids). Been arrested more times than I can count for ABH. He's in his 50s and moved in 10 years ago. My mums lived there for 35 years.

Whilst I agree with your point of view, there are still a few people who are just *ankers.

He sounds like a joy to behold.

By the way, I suspect you've been whooshed by the theme to Neighbours

 

[B-right-on]

This was really well timed, and have just done this. Only helpful to a point though, in my case.

Among other things, I need to know who is responsible for which fences at the rear of our property (ie which side are we responsible for).

The Title Deeds include the following text, which suggest that this IS prescribed, but where do I actually find that information!? :

A: Property Register
This register describes the land and estate comprised in
the title.
HAMPSHIRE : EASTLEIGH
1 (29.07.2002) The Freehold land shown edged with red on the plan of the
above title filed at the Registry and being ...................
2 (29.07.2002) The land has the benefit of the rights granted by but is
subject to the rights reserved by the Conveyance dated 30 September
1970 referred to in the Charges Register.
3 (29.07.2002) The Conveyance dated 30 September 1970 referred to above
contains a provision as to boundary structures.

C: Charges Register
This register contains any charges and other matters
that affect the land.
1 (29.07.2002) A Conveyance of the land in this title dated 30 September
1970 made between (1) Southampton Builders Limited (Vendor) and (2)
Thomas Albert Webber and Irene Webber (Purchasers) contains restrictive
covenants.

Did you download the title plan? Another £3 but should have the boundaries marked and should be able to tell who owns what in conjunction with the deeds. They go together.

 

[B-right-on]

He sounds like a joy to behold.

By the way, I suspect you've been whooshed by the theme to Neighbours

 

[Pavilionaire]

I'll give you the number for my mother's neighbour to try your philosophy on.

He's spat at my daughter when she was 10 years old. He calls my 77 year old mum the 'c' word to her face and has done many times.

He's been in prison for GBH, he got arrested for attempted murder by trying to run over a traffic warden for having the nerve to give him a ticket (plus he threatened to rape his wife and kill his kids). Been arrested more times than I can count for ABH. He's in his 50s and moved in 10 years ago. My mums lived there for 35 years.

Whilst I agree with your point of view, there are still a few people who are just *ankers.

I'm shocked for your mother that she should be so unlucky. It must be hard, for her and especially for you.