An olive branch to the Potter outs tonight

[Hugo Rune]

The only significant change I have seen is the Ryan/Sanchez swap. I think that it had been debated on here about the fact that Ryan stayed on his line too much and didn't come for crosses. However, I remember Stockdale being the same and there was this view for a long while of leave it to Dunk, Duffy and co and it seemed to be a continuation of that.

However, I thought we would look to sign a keeper and was stunned when Sanchez came from nowhere (he wasn't even a regular on the bench remember). I think the fact that he comes off the line has made a significant change to the way we defend and contributed hugely to our new found defensive confidence. Maybe the switch would have happened earlier if Sanchez had more experience and he's still only 23, very young for a keeper, so don't be surprised if he has a few howlers in him.

Other than that, I think the biggest difference is simple confidence and belief. As for us attacking with more speed and urgency, I'll wait until Burnley put 10 behind the ball and we have to play through that before I'll be convinced. I think that Leeds, Spurs, City and Liverpool wanting to play football helps our style. I don't think we were so impressive against Blackpool, Fulham and Newport.

So I'm not sure that outside of Sanchez and confidence much has changed at all. But, I still have no explanation why we had so few points over the first half of the season

I agree with this.

There were two problems for the team, finishing and conceding sloppy goals, especially from set-pieces.

The second problem has been resolved by Sanchez, the 4 clean sheets in a row prove that. The first problem is still a work in progress, Burn’s missed shot being the latest example of our hopelessness in front of goal.

Our lack of finishing success will come back and haunt us no doubt, many will blame Potter but I really think the recruitment team should help him out in the summer if it’s still holding us back. We’ll need to perhaps sacrifice one of White, Bissouma or Lamptey but if we’re getting £50m+ in the bank, some of that should be used to sign someone like Callum Wilson who has earned Newcastle about 75% of their points with his goals.

With both problems fixed, we are a top six side (based on xG calculations for aggregate goals scored and concede for each match).

 

[albionalex]

When he collected that, I immediatly thought about how dangerous that could have been with Ryan in goal.

I dont like to be harsh against players/ex players, and not kick on people already laying down (feels better now when he's at Arsenal though)... but I wonder if Ryans 47% save ratio this season is the worst ever in the PL, I almost think so. Maybe Potter should have made that swap earlier. At the same time, pleased that he did at all, lots of coaches wouldnt have dared.

I saw someone post a table from the Athletic the other day and there were 3 keepers with a worse save % than Ryan - the Palace goalkeeper was the worst iirc.

 

[Barnet Seagull]

I agree with this.

There were two problems for the team, finishing and conceding sloppy goals, especially from set-pieces.

The second problem has been resolved by Sanchez, the 4 clean sheets in a row prove that. The first problem is still a work in progress, Burn’s missed shot being the latest example of our hopelessness in front of goal.

Our lack of finishing success will come back and haunt us no doubt, many will blame Potter but I really think the recruitment team should help him out in the summer if it’s still holding us back. We’ll need to perhaps sacrifice one of White, Bissouma or Lamptey but if we’re getting £50m+ in the bank, some of that should be used to sign someone like Callum Wilson who has earned Newcastle about 75% of their points with his goals.

With both problems fixed, we are a top six side (based on xG calculations for aggregate goals scored and concede for each match).

In my view, a number of things have changed.

1. Greater use of the out ball. Not playing through the press every time, making us less predictable and more frustrating for teams keen to press (See DB as out ball against Liverpool).
2. Greater playing out options. Midfielders and wide players are all coming deeper to support playing through the press as needed (Gross, Biss, Alzate, Burn, March all coming a little deeper to be available to receive from the CBs if we do play out)
3. Defensive transitions. We are much faster to get back into shape
4. Defending slightly deeper. We are starting and sitting maybe 2-3 yards further back - particularly against Liverpool, where the space in behind could be exploited
5. Goalkeeper - Upgrade
6. Attacking transitions - Feels like there's a lot more one-touch, faster progression through the centre
7. Sitting Midfielders - We are committing fewer central players to the attack. One (usually Biss) is sitting more often.

I don't think our finishing has significantly changed. We got a bit of Luck against Liverpool.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

In my view, a number of things have changed.

1. Greater use of the out ball. Not playing through the press every time, making us less predictable and more frustrating for teams keen to press (See DB as out ball against Liverpool).
2. Greater playing out options. Midfielders and wide players are all coming deeper to support playing through the press as needed (Gross, Biss, Alzate, Burn, March all coming a little deeper to be available to receive from the CBs if we do play out)
3. Defensive transitions. We are much faster to get back into shape
4. Defending slightly deeper. We are starting and sitting maybe 2-3 yards further back - particularly against Liverpool, where the space in behind could be exploited
5. Goalkeeper - Upgrade
6. Attacking transitions - Feels like there's a lot more one-touch, faster progression through the centre
7. Sitting Midfielders - We are committing fewer central players to the attack. One (usually Biss) is sitting more often.

I don't think our finishing has significantly changed. We got a bit of Luck against Liverpool.

Yes, I made a similar point but you have gone into much better detail. It’s clearly a game of opinions because it seems to me so much has changed since before Christmas.

 

[Swansman]

I saw someone post a table from the Athletic the other day and there were 3 keepers with a worse save % than Ryan - the Palace goalkeeper was the worst iirc.

All-time?

Guaita having a worse save % than Ryan sounds very unlikely to me.

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

In my view, a number of things have changed.

1. Greater use of the out ball. Not playing through the press every time, making us less predictable and more frustrating for teams keen to press (See DB as out ball against Liverpool).
2. Greater playing out options. Midfielders and wide players are all coming deeper to support playing through the press as needed (Gross, Biss, Alzate, Burn, March all coming a little deeper to be available to receive from the CBs if we do play out)
3. Defensive transitions. We are much faster to get back into shape
4. Defending slightly deeper. We are starting and sitting maybe 2-3 yards further back - particularly against Liverpool, where the space in behind could be exploited
5. Goalkeeper - Upgrade
6. Attacking transitions - Feels like there's a lot more one-touch, faster progression through the centre
7. Sitting Midfielders - We are committing fewer central players to the attack. One (usually Biss) is sitting more often.

I don't think our finishing has significantly changed. We got a bit of Luck against Liverpool.

All good points.

We also seem to be getting more men in the box. In both the Spurs and Liverpool matches we were repeatedly getting six men in the box when attacking, not just at corners.

Also, the arrival of Percy Tau might have refocused the likes of Trossard and Mac Alister? But that is just an assumption.

 

[AZ Gull]

All-time?

Guaita having a worse save % than Ryan sounds very unlikely to me.

I think [MENTION=13376]albionalex[/MENTION] must be referring to my post here - Sanchez thread

It comes from this article in the Athletic - which, I accept, is probably a useless link if you are not a subscriber!

 

[Durlston]

Didn't realise the season had finished? So when do the European Championships start?

 

[BNthree]

All-time?

Guaita having a worse save % than Ryan sounds very unlikely to me.

Think they mean this season. Around Christmas time Palace had conceded 4 more goals than we had. Ryan hasn't played since then so comparisons wouldn't be fair.

 

[Guinness Boy]

In my view, a number of things have changed.

1. Greater use of the out ball. Not playing through the press every time, making us less predictable and more frustrating for teams keen to press (See DB as out ball against Liverpool).
2. Greater playing out options. Midfielders and wide players are all coming deeper to support playing through the press as needed (Gross, Biss, Alzate, Burn, March all coming a little deeper to be available to receive from the CBs if we do play out)
3. Defensive transitions. We are much faster to get back into shape
4. Defending slightly deeper. We are starting and sitting maybe 2-3 yards further back - particularly against Liverpool, where the space in behind could be exploited
5. Goalkeeper - Upgrade
6. Attacking transitions - Feels like there's a lot more one-touch, faster progression through the centre
7. Sitting Midfielders - We are committing fewer central players to the attack. One (usually Biss) is sitting more often.

I don't think our finishing has significantly changed. We got a bit of Luck against Liverpool.

Excellent analysis. Agree with all of that, plus we are suddenly better defending set pieces (which I think is really down to point 5 -Sanchez).

There was a thread on here directed to the "Potter Out faction" on what it would take to change our minds. I can't be bothered to search for it so I'm paraphrasing, but my answer was not much - just the results need to improve. They have and he's coached his way to them exactly as you have analysed. Just as he takes credit for that (and I am now firmly "in" as mentioned and voted) so he and his long time advocates must realise that a lot of the above took too long to change. Sanchez was thrown in against Spurs but then immediately dropped. We spent too long, and conceded too many goals from over elaborate playing out from the back. The transitions both ways often looked too slow.

I'd like to think he's done a lot of work on fitness as we pretty much matched Bielsa's murder ball students on that front on a horrible pitch. But also not tinkering with the team. For the last four games our core team has been similar. And look how well Trossard and Maupay are playing knowing that they will be starting the game.

So, in short, you identify great things that GP has done that we should all be grateful for, but at least some of them were mistakes often pointed out on here by people who are now being targeted by a small but vocal revisionist clique.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

In my view, a number of things have changed.

1. Greater use of the out ball. Not playing through the press every time, making us less predictable and more frustrating for teams keen to press (See DB as out ball against Liverpool).
2. Greater playing out options. Midfielders and wide players are all coming deepoker to support playing through the press as needed (Gross, Biss, Alzate, Burn, March all coming a little deeper to be available to receive from the CBs if we do play out)
3. Defensive transitions. We are much faster to get back into shape
4. Defending slightly deeper. We are starting and sitting maybe 2-3 yards further back - particularly against Liverpool, where the space in behind could be exploited
5. Goalkeeper - Upgrade
6. Attacking transitions - Feels like there's a lot more one-touch, faster progression through the centre
7. Sitting Midfielders - We are committing fewer central players to the attack. One (usually Biss) is sitting more often.

I don't think our finishing has significantly changed. We got a bit of Luck against Liverpool.

Sanchez has made a big difference, and since his first game he has more licence to use the out ball. And we’re more settled. And we’re moving the ball faster and quicker at getting back into shape, and into the opposition box. All the things you said .......

 

[Wardy's twin]

Excellent analysis. Agree with all of that, plus we are suddenly better defending set pieces (which I think is really down to point 5 -Sanchez).

There was a thread on here directed to the "Potter Out faction" on what it would take to change our minds. I can't be bothered to search for it so I'm paraphrasing, but my answer was not much - just the results need to improve. They have and he's coached his way to them exactly as you have analysed. Just as he takes credit for that (and I am now firmly "in" as mentioned and voted) so he and his long time advocates must realise that a lot of the above took too long to change. Sanchez was thrown in against Spurs but then immediately dropped. We spent too long, and conceded too many goals from over elaborate playing out from the back. The transitions both ways often looked too slow.

I'd like to think he's done a lot of work on fitness as we pretty much matched Bielsa's murder ball students on that front on a horrible pitch. But also not tinkering with the team. For the last four games our core team has been similar. And look how well Trossard and Maupay are playing knowing that they will be starting the game.

So, in short, you identify great things that GP has done that we should all be grateful for, but at least some of them were mistakes often pointed out on here by people who are now being targeted by a small but vocal revisionist clique.

Great original analysis and further comment I think getting Mac Alister and Alazate involved added more pace & fluidity into the team , they were playing at the start of the season when we looked fast. This has meant less dwelling on the ball and aloo meant more energy so that Trossard and Gross can focus on being more creative. Burnley are going to offer a very different challenge to Leeds, Spurs & Liverpool , will be interesting who he selects.

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

Excellent analysis. Agree with all of that, plus we are suddenly better defending set pieces (which I think is really down to point 5 -Sanchez).

There was a thread on here directed to the "Potter Out faction" on what it would take to change our minds. I can't be bothered to search for it so I'm paraphrasing, but my answer was not much - just the results need to improve. They have and he's coached his way to them exactly as you have analysed. Just as he takes credit for that (and I am now firmly "in" as mentioned and voted) so he and his long time advocates must realise that a lot of the above took too long to change. Sanchez was thrown in against Spurs but then immediately dropped. We spent too long, and conceded too many goals from over elaborate playing out from the back. The transitions both ways often looked too slow.

I'd like to think he's done a lot of work on fitness as we pretty much matched Bielsa's murder ball students on that front on a horrible pitch. But also not tinkering with the team. For the last four games our core team has been similar. And look how well Trossard and Maupay are playing knowing that they will be starting the game.

So, in short, you identify great things that GP has done that we should all be grateful for, but at least some of them were mistakes often pointed out on here by people who are now being targeted by a small but vocal revisionist clique.

I'd imagine that while it's relatively easy to observe and point out those mistakes (and god knows there's been plenty to point out), actually training a team to play in the style we are and are aiming for while also cutting them out is actually really hard and does take time.

I don't think sacking Potter would have been productive, since the new manager would either be faced with the same problems to deal with, or would revert to a more conservative style that just takes us back to the problems we were trying to get away with in the first place.

 

[Icy Gull]

I'd imagine that while it's relatively easy to observe and point out those mistakes (and god knows there's been plenty to point out), actually training a team to play in the style we are and are aiming for while also cutting them out is actually really hard and does take time.

I don't think sacking Potter would have been productive, since the new manager would either be faced with the same problems to deal with, or would revert to a more conservative style that just takes us back to the problems we were trying to get away with in the first place.

Exactly my thinking

 

[portlock seagull]

Very entertaining thread! Only on NSC is an olive branch smashed into matchwood within 10 or so posts!

 

[Bry Nylon]

Very entertaining thread! Only on NSC is an olive branch smashed into matchwood within 10 or so posts!

Well, quite, And mostly because it never was an 'olive branch' - but we all know that.

And even if it were an olive branch - the breathtaking arrogance of such a gesture genuinely staggers me. And believe me, not much does.

 

[Weststander]

I agree with this.

There were two problems for the team, finishing and conceding sloppy goals, especially from set-pieces.

The second problem has been resolved by Sanchez, the 4 clean sheets in a row prove that. The first problem is still a work in progress, Burn’s missed shot being the latest example of our hopelessness in front of goal.

Our lack of finishing success will come back and haunt us no doubt, many will blame Potter but I really think the recruitment team should help him out in the summer if it’s still holding us back. We’ll need to perhaps sacrifice one of White, Bissouma or Lamptey but if we’re getting £50m+ in the bank, some of that should be used to sign someone like Callum Wilson who has earned Newcastle about 75% of their points with his goals.

With both problems fixed, we are a top six side (based on xG calculations for aggregate goals scored and concede for each match).

Or; Maupay, Trossard, Connolly and Welbeck all relax and start tucking away a greater proportion of chances.

 

[Change at Barnham]

I think [MENTION=13376]albionalex[/MENTION] must be referring to my post here - Sanchez thread

It comes from this article in the Athletic - which, I accept, is probably a useless link if you are not a subscriber!

 

[Wardy's twin]

I'd imagine that while it's relatively easy to observe and point out those mistakes (and god knows there's been plenty to point out), actually training a team to play in the style we are and are aiming for while also cutting them out is actually really hard and does take time.

I don't think sacking Potter would have been productive, since the new manager would either be faced with the same problems to deal with, or would revert to a more conservative style that just takes us back to the problems we were trying to get away with in the first place.

I was on the fence not because of his style but because it seemed to me he had lost players who seemed to not be playing any replacement would have been expected to play in similar style however that does not matter anymore.

Many got frustrated about how he spoke after the games I suspected he is a very different person in the dressing room and his handling of Ryan bears that out.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I'd imagine that while it's relatively easy to observe and point out those mistakes (and god knows there's been plenty to point out), actually training a team to play in the style we are and are aiming for while also cutting them out is actually really hard and does take time.

I don't think sacking Potter would have been productive, since the new manager would either be faced with the same problems to deal with, or would revert to a more conservative style that just takes us back to the problems we were trying to get away with in the first place.

Yes, probably correct in hindsight.

Playing Sanchez for one game and no strikers against Spurs genuinely baffled me. However, often on here the question was asked if we had the players to carry out the plan. Perhaps with Plan A we don't but they're doing a brilliant job with Plan B.

Jardim in particular was an upgrade in my eyes but I'm glad GP has finally got it all together and saved us the bother of finding out.