[Football] American invasion of the Premier League - the end of promotion/relegation?

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Swansman

Pro-peace
May 13, 2019
22,320
Sweden
As we all know, they don't do promotion/relegation in the US.

The reason for this is to protect the investments of the owners, arguing "less money will be spent if we could risk losing our income through relegation".

Instead, the leagues expand or (unusually) shrink based on geographics, in order to cream out more money. "No MLS team in this state? Well then there is a market for one". In some big cities, like New York... or London.. there may be room for several teams. Other than that you want some spread, like buying one of the not-too-many teams on the South Coast or in Norwich, which is far from everywhere judging by the map.

Today, 8 clubs in the PL have significant American ownership, with another one (City) having a yank owning 10%, and another one (Bournemouth) on the verge of getting bought. 14 out of 20 PL clubs needs to agree to make rule changes for the league. If there was a vote today, I think all the American owners would vote for a decision to close the league. They might not need 14 clubs to be American owned for such a decision to take place: some of the other owners could arguably not be trusted to vote against a decision that would likely be a good business move.

Of course, they might take it slowly not to upset the general public. Reduce the number of relegated teams at first, perhaps. Or vote for changes that seems sensible (like a salary cap) just to please fans from smaller clubs. But in the medium (or even short) term, I think there's reasons to be worried about this development.

American/yank-friendly majority in the PL is a disaster waiting to happen IMO.

Don't know what you're supposed to discuss in this thread... just some thoughts from the Swansman.
 




Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
56,146
Faversham
No. It won't happen.
 


Green Cross Code Man

Wunt be druv
Mar 30, 2006
20,753
Eastbourne
I think your thoughts are not too far removed from the truth. But one thing we like here is tradition, see the Royal Funeral etc. I believe the opposition to the loss of relegation would be enormous, not unlike the ESL.
 


Biscuit Barrel

Well-known member
Jan 28, 2014
2,760
Southwick
They tried something similar with the European super league. That didn't go well for them.

You can fu$k with many things in this country, but you can't fu%k about with promotion and relegation.
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
56,146
Faversham
No. It won't happen.

I appreciate the new Chelsea owner seems to think he's an 'ideas man' but the foreign owners soon learn to not shit in their own swimming pool.

Edit: apologies, I meant to edit my post not reply to it. :facepalm:
 




Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Jul 23, 2003
37,345
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
Well, there'd be huge resistance from fans and bigger resistance from the TV companies who pay the majority of the Premier League's bills.

We've allowed ourselves to have a situation where the League is won every season by Manchester City and the big story up top last season was which North London club would finish fourth. Relegation battles provide crucial narrative in the last days of the season for both Sky and Match of the Day. Close ups of face painted fans bawling, players on their knees at the end, big fat biffer centre halves doing a jig because they got to be 17th by goal difference. The ability to schedule (say) Forest v Southampton at the end of the season, when there's something on it, allowing the big clubs to be televised in the middle of the season.

The narrative that "American ownership bad" also gives away prejudice. I'd rather murderous Middle Eastern petro states were banned from owing than Americans. Fenway group at Liverpool run that club impeccably (dalliance with the ESL aside).
 


SeagullinExile

Well-known member
Sep 10, 2010
6,192
London
Never going to happen. The football league pyramid in England is sacred to all fans.
 


Green Cross Code Man

Wunt be druv
Mar 30, 2006
20,753
Eastbourne
I appreciate the new Chelsea owner seems to think he's an 'ideas man' but the foreign owners soon learn to not shit in their own swimming pool.

Edit: apologies, I meant to edit my post not reply to it. :facepalm:

You obviously thought you were replying with your other account, we've seen this kind of behaviour before. :jester:
 






Lyndhurst 14

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2008
5,243
Does that mean they'd bring in the draft and playing the national anthem before each game, although being able to take a beer back to your seat would be nice
 


Hugo Rune

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 23, 2012
23,687
Brighton
I’m very worried about majority American ownership in the EPL but they might find it hard to get any whacky ideas through as ‘fan power’ is just too strong.

A positive might be when yank owners decide to play ‘football manager’ with their various toys. Basket case clubs can often produce teams without strategy, values or desire. Exactly the sort of teams a well run club like ours can put to the sword.
 




Swansman

Pro-peace
May 13, 2019
22,320
Sweden
Never going to happen. The football league pyramid in England is sacred to all fans.

Nothing is sacred. You can have a mass murderer take over the club or put outreagous prices on tickets: people still pay up and come.

They tried something similar with the European super league. That didn't go well for them.

You can fu$k with many things in this country, but you can't fu%k about with promotion and relegation.

I have a feeling that the goalposts for what you "can or cant **** with" are nomads in this day and age. Roman Abramovich was once unthinkable, and then happened.

Well, there'd be huge resistance from fans and bigger resistance from the TV companies who pay the majority of the Premier League's bills.

We've allowed ourselves to have a situation where the League is won every season by Manchester City and the big story up top last season was which North London club would finish fourth. Relegation battles provide crucial narrative in the last days of the season for both Sky and Match of the Day. Close ups of face painted fans bawling, players on their knees at the end, big fat biffer centre halves doing a jig because they got to be 17th by goal difference. The ability to schedule (say) Forest v Southampton at the end of the season, when there's something on it, allowing the big clubs to be televised in the middle of the season.

The narrative that "American ownership bad" also gives away prejudice. I'd rather murderous Middle Eastern petro states were banned from owing than Americans. Fenway group at Liverpool run that club impeccably (dalliance with the ESL aside).

If the TV companies against all odds would have anything against the 20 or 24 strongest and most popular PL sides (or franchises..) remaining in the league each year, then it surprises me that the NFL TV contracts make the PL ones looking like coffee money. Yes, their domestic market is bigger, but the PL is more of a global brand. The likes of Todd Boehly are going to be a lot more interested in the 500-1bn people abroad wanting to watch PL than the 70 million or so in the UK.

I'm thinking we'll see something like this:

This season or next summer
"To improve democracy in the PL and the impact of each club, it is now only required that 11 out of 20 rather than 14 out of 20 teams approve proposals for rule and structure changes".

Fans: yeah finally power to the people woho

English govt and lawmakers:
retard_34283327 (1).jpg

At some point next season:
"As the results in the last 20 years imply, newly promoted teams in the PL struggle to compete in the league, and in order to increase the competitiveness of the league we're proposing to decrease the number of teams getting promoted/relegated to 2, starting in a year or sumthin'."

Fans: *twitters furiously... before still going to games and paying a £100 a month to watch PL on the tv*

English govt. and lawmakers:
retard_34283327 (1).jpg

Season after that:
"To ensure the competetiveness and financial viability of the league, teams from the EFL now have to prove that they have enough (yank) money to spend in order to be approved by the PL."

Fans: *twitters furiously... before still going to games and paying a £100 a month to watch PL on the tv*

English govt. and lawmakers:
retard_34283327 (1).jpg

Another year another change
"To ensure that each franchi... team in the PL is indeed competitive and to increase the excitement, direct relegation/promotion will be replaced by a four team playoff with the bottom two PL clubs and the top two Championship clubs competing for two places in the Premier League.

Fans: *rages furiously in their VR helmets... before still going to games and paying a £100 a month to watch PL on the tv*

English govt. and lawmakers:
retard_34283327 (1).jpg

And then, finally:
"You know what... there will be 24 PL teams and they will be there forever and we're also reached and agreement with the EFL to rename their shit "Colleague Soccer League".

Fans: *takes another soma and smiles*

English govt. and lawmakers:
retard_34283327 (1).jpg
 


Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Jul 23, 2003
37,345
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
Nothing is sacred. You can have a mass murderer take over the club or put outreagous prices on tickets: people still pay up and come.



I have a feeling that the goalposts for what you "can or cant **** with" are nomads in this day and age. Roman Abramovich was once unthinkable, and then happened.



If the TV companies against all odds would have anything against the 20 or 24 strongest and most popular PL sides (or franchises..) remaining in the league each year, then it surprises me that the NFL TV contracts make the PL ones looking like coffee money. Yes, their domestic market is bigger, but the PL is more of a global brand. The likes of Todd Boehly are going to be a lot more interested in the 500-1bn people abroad wanting to watch PL than the 70 million or so in the UK.

I'm thinking we'll see something like this:

This season or next summer
"To improve democracy in the PL and the impact of each club, it is now only required that 11 out of 20 rather than 14 out of 20 teams approve proposals for rule and structure changes".

Fans: yeah finally power to the people woho

English govt and lawmakers:
View attachment 151903

At some point next season:
"As the results in the last 20 years imply, newly promoted teams in the PL struggle to compete in the league, and in order to increase the competitiveness of the league we're proposing to decrease the number of teams getting promoted/relegated to 2, starting in a year or sumthin'."

Fans: *twitters furiously... before still going to games and paying a £100 a month to watch PL on the tv*

English govt. and lawmakers:
View attachment 151903

Season after that:
"To ensure the competetiveness and financial viability of the league, teams from the EFL now have to prove that they have enough (yank) money to spend in order to be approved by the PL."

Fans: *twitters furiously... before still going to games and paying a £100 a month to watch PL on the tv*

English govt. and lawmakers:
View attachment 151903

Another year another change
"To ensure that each franchi... team in the PL is indeed competitive and to increase the excitement, direct relegation/promotion will be replaced by a four team playoff with the bottom two PL clubs and the top two Championship clubs competing for two places in the Premier League.

Fans: *rages furiously in their VR helmets... before still going to games and paying a £100 a month to watch PL on the tv*

English govt. and lawmakers:
View attachment 151903

And then, finally:
"You know what... there will be 24 PL teams and they will be there forever and we're also reached and agreement with the EFL to rename their shit "Colleague Soccer League".

Fans: *takes another soma and smiles*

English govt. and lawmakers:
View attachment 151903

Erm, no.

Nice picture though. Is it you?
 


Swansman

Pro-peace
May 13, 2019
22,320
Sweden
Erm, no.

Nice picture though. Is it you?

Erm, yes. The timespan and development might look a little different but looking at the current developmment, American owners and their Arab business partners are going to own every single Premier League club within ten years, and it is incredibly naive to believe that English fans saying that something is holy is going to have any impact whatsoever on their business decisions. It is beyond wishful thinking.

And no, its your self-portrait from 30 years ago, I added some hair though so no wonder you didn't recognize it.
 




Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
31,269
American elite sport is not a complete closed shop, but their equivalent to relegation / promotion is relocation of franchises, usually from under-performing cities to growing cities. This is not going to happen in England; the Wimbledon to Milton Keynes fiasco is an example of why.

And so you will get a very stale League. The only thing that keeps the other 14 vital is the threat of relegation. None of them win any of the main domestic trophies, so take away relegation and what have they got to play for?
 


Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,830
Uffern
Erm, yes. The timespan and development might look a little different but looking at the current developmment, American owners and their Arab business partners are going to own every single Premier League club within ten years, and it is incredibly naive to believe that English fans saying that something is holy is going to have any impact whatsoever on their business decisions. It is beyond wishful thinking.

Brighton are steadily improving. They're never going to be winning the league but they're gradually making themselves a solid EPL club. Why do you think they're going to be relegated within the next 10 years? It could happen, of course, but I wouldn't say it's inevitable.

But I do think you're on to something with this doing away with promotion/relegation: that was the thinking behind the scheme to have third bottom in the EPL in the play-offs, in effect reducing the number of promoted teams to two. In time, that will be one and then zero.
 


Garry Nelson's Left Foot

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
13,527
tokyo
I can't deny it's something that worries me a little.

Whether it leads to no promotion/relegation is debatable but I do worry that it could lead to some other form of ****wittery.

A premier league of two divisions fro example so there would still be 'promotion and relegation' but not the fear of catastrophic falling through the leagues. A two tier premier league has been proposed before - I think it was the Bolton chairman who was big on it? - if the clubs are all american, middle eastern or chinese owned maybe there would be more boardroom support for it.

A premier league top division of say 14 - 16 teams would also allow more European games bringing in more mega bucks. Two up two down, the big boys wouldn't have to worry about relegation and they could play their European Super league in all but name every mid week.

I hope that's a far fetched scenario but I unfortunately think it's entirely possible.
 


Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Jul 23, 2003
37,345
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
Erm, yes. The timespan and development might look a little different but looking at the current developmment, American owners and their Arab business partners are going to own every single Premier League club within ten years, and it is incredibly naive to believe that English fans saying that something is holy is going to have any impact whatsoever on their business decisions. It is beyond wishful thinking.

And no, its your self-portrait from 30 years ago, I added some hair though so no wonder you didn't recognize it.

Genuinely not. In the medium term at least I can't see Brighton or Brentford going down without coming straight back up within a season or two. The Bloom family will stay in charge here and the Benhams at Brentford. We are literally a template that's being copied by Chelsea and Newcastle but they're copying us a few years ago. Innovation can and does trump cashflow at times - certainly in business.

Secondly the game here is nothing without the fans. If they stop going and stop watching on telly all the money drains out of it. And that sort of rebellion killed the ESL only last season.
 




SeagullinExile

Well-known member
Sep 10, 2010
6,192
London
Nothing is sacred. You can have a mass murderer take over the club or put outreagous prices on tickets: people still pay up and come.



I have a feeling that the goalposts for what you "can or cant **** with" are nomads in this day and age. Roman Abramovich was once unthinkable, and then happened.



If the TV companies against all odds would have anything against the 20 or 24 strongest and most popular PL sides (or franchises..) remaining in the league each year, then it surprises me that the NFL TV contracts make the PL ones looking like coffee money. Yes, their domestic market is bigger, but the PL is more of a global brand. The likes of Todd Boehly are going to be a lot more interested in the 500-1bn people abroad wanting to watch PL than the 70 million or so in the UK.

I'm thinking we'll see something like this:

This season or next summer
"To improve democracy in the PL and the impact of each club, it is now only required that 11 out of 20 rather than 14 out of 20 teams approve proposals for rule and structure changes".

Fans: yeah finally power to the people woho

English govt and lawmakers:
View attachment 151903

At some point next season:
"As the results in the last 20 years imply, newly promoted teams in the PL struggle to compete in the league, and in order to increase the competitiveness of the league we're proposing to decrease the number of teams getting promoted/relegated to 2, starting in a year or sumthin'."

Fans: *twitters furiously... before still going to games and paying a £100 a month to watch PL on the tv*

English govt. and lawmakers:
View attachment 151903

Season after that:
"To ensure the competetiveness and financial viability of the league, teams from the EFL now have to prove that they have enough (yank) money to spend in order to be approved by the PL."

Fans: *twitters furiously... before still going to games and paying a £100 a month to watch PL on the tv*

English govt. and lawmakers:
View attachment 151903

Another year another change
"To ensure that each franchi... team in the PL is indeed competitive and to increase the excitement, direct relegation/promotion will be replaced by a four team playoff with the bottom two PL clubs and the top two Championship clubs competing for two places in the Premier League.

Fans: *rages furiously in their VR helmets... before still going to games and paying a £100 a month to watch PL on the tv*

English govt. and lawmakers:
View attachment 151903

And then, finally:
"You know what... there will be 24 PL teams and they will be there forever and we're also reached and agreement with the EFL to rename their shit "Colleague Soccer League".

Fans: *takes another soma and smiles*

English govt. and lawmakers:
View attachment 151903

Blimey, that’s some post. I’ll reply to the part relevant to me! Can you name me another football pyramid in the world that pulls in the type of crowds that the English one does? For example, Wrexham in T5 regularly pull in attendances of 10k! You need to understand that football clubs are deeply rooted in their communities, and have been for generations. If you think the backlash of the Super League was big, you ain’t seen nothing yet! It would be 10 fold.
 


Seasider78

Well-known member
Nov 14, 2004
6,011
Erm, yes. The timespan and development might look a little different but looking at the current developmment, American owners and their Arab business partners are going to own every single Premier League club within ten years, and it is incredibly naive to believe that English fans saying that something is holy is going to have any impact whatsoever on their business decisions. It is beyond wishful thinking.

And no, its your self-portrait from 30 years ago, I added some hair though so no wonder you didn't recognize it.

It’s not just the fans though is it the reaction would be from throughout the pyramid as ultimately there are many more clubs who are dreaming or chasing a return to the PL.

The pyramid is one of the things celebrated in the English game and even if they tried a drip drip approach the day they put it on the table it would be fought and fought until it was removed swiftly
 


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