Government would intervene - its a non-starter
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[Football] American invasion of the Premier League - the end of promotion/relegation?
- Thread starter Swansman
- Start date
Government would intervene - its a non-starter
What’s the reason for the top 6 voting for no relegation? They aren’t at any risk of relegation.
BN41Albion
Well-known member
- Oct 1, 2017
- 6,825
Jolly Red Giant
Well-known member
- Jul 11, 2015
- 2,615
Swansman is spot on - the yanks and others would like to have the PL as a stand alone league closed off from the rest of the pyramid. Actually - the yanks would really like a European Super League closed off from everyone else. Ultimately the Americans would love a system similar to baseball where your would have the PL - and then the lower divisions would have feeder teams directly linked to the PL clubs (like the AAA and AA etc. in baseball - most MLB franchises have teams down six or seven levels of the baseball structure). So you could see for example the likes of Man City in the PL and they'd own Bristol City in tier two, Lincoln in tier three, Crewe in tier four, Oldham in tier five, and Chester in tier six- with all the players controlled by Man City and the club having the ability to move their players up and down through each of the clubs in the pyramid. And they would happily move clubs around geographically if it suited their interests (aka MK Dons) - especially as you go down the pyramid.The other thing they would want is to get rid of transfer fees - the Americans want a marketable product with competition and the ability of each team to be successful - you cannot do that with transfer fees because it completely distorts the 'product' - a fixed size roster (probably 25 players max) solves the problem and players move at the end of their contracts (or when the club voids the contract). Now this is not to say that any of this would work - but I guarantee you that the likes of Kroenke, Fenway, Textor, the Glaziers, Kahn and Pace have had people working on this for some time.
There is no doubt that at some stage they (and the shiekhs) will attempt this. The ground work is currently being laid - and has been for some time. The reality of promotion and relegation from and to the Championship is a yo-yoing among a small number of teams. The reality is that the 'so-called' bigger clubs outside the PL are slowly making their way there.Leeds are now back - and Forest this season (and if they survive this season I could see Forest becoming the target of an American buy-out). From the perspective of money - they probably wouldn't be bothered if Brentford, Bournemouth (unless big american money comes in), Southampton and even Brighton and Leicester out of the PL - replaced by the likes of Burnley (because of Alan Pace's net worth), Barnsley (owned by Americans worth £10billion) and probably Stoke (for a geographical spread and the Coates family are worth £10billion) and possibly Sheff Utd (again for geographical spread and if some American billionaire comes in for it). Now - the fly in the ointment is Asian money - the PL is massive in Asia and the Asian billionaires are competing with the Americans for a slice of the pie - owning the likes of Wolves, Blackburn, Birmingham, Cardiff, QPR, Reading, and WBA
The key focus of the billionaire owners is not the fans but the TV revenue and the merchandising - they want a global commodity - not one based on a limited geographical area. The fan base is a tolerated annoyance necessary to create an atmosphere at the grounds. What is currently happening in the PL is on a much bigger scale than anywhere else - the Bundesliga operates with the 50+1 rule and in Spain the grand-father clause - only in Italy has there been movement similar to England and on a much smaller scale. Ultimately the plan would be for a European Super League mostly comprising of British clubs with a 3/4 from Spain, Italy and PSG (they would like the top German clubs as well - but the rules in Germany limit the possibility) - and that then acting as a tier above the PL.
Will it happen ? - well there would be an increadible fan backlash - and the outcome would be determined by the scale of the movement by fans against this.
The reality is that all of this can be traced back to the Sky takeover with the launch of the PL - its a strive by the billionaires to create a monopoly in sport to drive revenue from TV rights and merchandising. It is a manifestation of wider society that is continuting to see a growing inequality on a global basis where the richest 10 people on the planet saw their wealth jump by half a trillion dollars during the pandemic, while 99% of the world's population saw their standard of living decline. The richest 10 men on the planet have more wealth than 3.1billion people. In the last 25 years the richest 1% of the global population have seen their wealth increase 20-fold in comparison the the poorest 3.5billion people on the planet. The 2,755 global billionaires have seen their wealth grow more in the two years of the pandemic than in the previous 14 years - a period of boom for the wealth of the billionaire class.
So - at the end of the day - the only way to stop the drive for monopoly in football by the American owners (and a small number of others) is to challenge the gross inequality in society at large and the system that creates it.
There is no doubt that at some stage they (and the shiekhs) will attempt this. The ground work is currently being laid - and has been for some time. The reality of promotion and relegation from and to the Championship is a yo-yoing among a small number of teams. The reality is that the 'so-called' bigger clubs outside the PL are slowly making their way there.Leeds are now back - and Forest this season (and if they survive this season I could see Forest becoming the target of an American buy-out). From the perspective of money - they probably wouldn't be bothered if Brentford, Bournemouth (unless big american money comes in), Southampton and even Brighton and Leicester out of the PL - replaced by the likes of Burnley (because of Alan Pace's net worth), Barnsley (owned by Americans worth £10billion) and probably Stoke (for a geographical spread and the Coates family are worth £10billion) and possibly Sheff Utd (again for geographical spread and if some American billionaire comes in for it). Now - the fly in the ointment is Asian money - the PL is massive in Asia and the Asian billionaires are competing with the Americans for a slice of the pie - owning the likes of Wolves, Blackburn, Birmingham, Cardiff, QPR, Reading, and WBA
The key focus of the billionaire owners is not the fans but the TV revenue and the merchandising - they want a global commodity - not one based on a limited geographical area. The fan base is a tolerated annoyance necessary to create an atmosphere at the grounds. What is currently happening in the PL is on a much bigger scale than anywhere else - the Bundesliga operates with the 50+1 rule and in Spain the grand-father clause - only in Italy has there been movement similar to England and on a much smaller scale. Ultimately the plan would be for a European Super League mostly comprising of British clubs with a 3/4 from Spain, Italy and PSG (they would like the top German clubs as well - but the rules in Germany limit the possibility) - and that then acting as a tier above the PL.
Will it happen ? - well there would be an increadible fan backlash - and the outcome would be determined by the scale of the movement by fans against this.
The reality is that all of this can be traced back to the Sky takeover with the launch of the PL - its a strive by the billionaires to create a monopoly in sport to drive revenue from TV rights and merchandising. It is a manifestation of wider society that is continuting to see a growing inequality on a global basis where the richest 10 people on the planet saw their wealth jump by half a trillion dollars during the pandemic, while 99% of the world's population saw their standard of living decline. The richest 10 men on the planet have more wealth than 3.1billion people. In the last 25 years the richest 1% of the global population have seen their wealth increase 20-fold in comparison the the poorest 3.5billion people on the planet. The 2,755 global billionaires have seen their wealth grow more in the two years of the pandemic than in the previous 14 years - a period of boom for the wealth of the billionaire class.
So - at the end of the day - the only way to stop the drive for monopoly in football by the American owners (and a small number of others) is to challenge the gross inequality in society at large and the system that creates it.
Typical JRG. A massive, multi part essay that most won’t read, and therefore challenge, culminating in a crowbarred in call for your real passion, socialism on a global scale.
What you and Swansman share is anti Americanism and therefore an agenda. Oh, and also not living in the country you’re pontificating about.
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I appreciate the new Chelsea owner seems to think he's an 'ideas man' but the foreign owners soon learn to not shit in their own swimming pool.
Edit: apologies, I meant to edit my post not reply to it.
That`s how it begins
Is that you after you have enjoyed your Erm "Monday"
herecomesaregular
We're in the pipe, 5 by 5
Thanks, that's another one for the **** bank.
- Thread starter
- #30
Sure, clubs like Brentford and Brighton are the hopes here but there would have to be more of them.
ESL was "killed off", or rather put to rest because it will be back as a suggestion, indeed. Would it have stopped fans going to games? I don't think so. Would fans stop watching the games on TV if they threatened to remove the promotion/relegation? I doubt it. Many fans of the clubs who were bought by foreign pigs said "I wouldn't want that, I'd stop going" and yet the stadiums are filled. Never mind TV. In the Future Premier League it'll be sad in the unlikely case the English fans stopped watching due to percieved holyness of the relegation/promotion concept but as if you can grow the markets in China, the US and elsewhere - the owners could just shrug off whatever you think about it.
I think the backlash would be massive yes, and then people would adapt and watch their teams in the Super Premier League. What happens in the National League or how important it is to your community, you think some ****ing American hedgefund capitalist gives a shit?
"Uh no... the reaction".. on the other hand: money.
The same reasons teams in the US don't want relegation: profit and attention. If you close the Premier League, it would be a lot easier to make the league profitable. If you can promise a American or Chinese TV networks that the 20 most popular teams in England would play in the PL each year, they'd be willing to pay more than if teams like Aston Villa, Newcastle or West Ham - sometimes several of them at the same time - would drop into another division and be replaced by a team like Huddersfield or some other that no one has heard of.
With a closed league, there would also be more (yes, even more) investment in the not-too-fancy clubs (like... Southampton) because there's no fear of missing out on your main sources of (growing) income and make massive losses. A team like Southampton could in that case have their future American owner splash £300m of the best talent from the rest of Europe and the world, knowing that the money are guaranteed to be repaid. And when all teams become better, it has several advantages in the Chinese-American tv sofa: more teams are able to compete for titles, more teams have exciting players that mr Chang Brucewillis would like to watch, and growth would inevitably happen in today underexploited markets and by taking shares from Italian and Spanish clubs.
The reality is this:
The NFL, which is surely the dream for American PL owners, is more profitable and bring in more TV money than the PL, and this is due to its advantage compared to competing leagues, and advantage achieved by the possibility to dominate through investing in the best players without financial risk because there is zero fear that a competing league will reach those standards or that a club will fall down into the obscurity of "NFL 2".
Sure, it also has to do with the domestic market being bigger than the UK domestic market. But unlike whatever they're playing in the NFL, football is popular all over the world and there's a greater, underutilized potential that makes it creamy in the pants of these yanks. American or Chinese TV companies might not be willing to spend as much as eg Sky Sports on football today, but as seen from other sports you can significantly increase the interest (which in the case of football is more dormant than non-existent) abroad if for instance Manchester United go and play a Premier League game against Liverpool in New York or Shanghai.
Why would these American businessmen buy clubs in the PL if they didn't think there was more money to milk out of it? Why would they not try to change the format and the rules in a direction that generates more money with less risk? Because a couple of million (most would get over it and keep watching their team) of increasingly impoverished Brits would sit and sob over Bristol City not being able to go to the top flight? I call that utopian.
- Thread starter
- #31
Typical JRG. A massive, multi part essay that most won’t read, and therefore challenge, culminating in a crowbarred in call for your real passion, socialism on a global scale.
What you and Swansman share is anti Americanism and therefore an agenda. Oh, and also not living in the country you’re pontificating about.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
And here we go again, NSC moderator wanting to transform a thread about the consequences of Americanisation of football into a shit stirring contest.
But yeah I'm willing to play the game you're setting up: yeah I'm anti-American in a similar way to you getting a boner from every nation slaughtering Arabs.
You want a medal for always siding with the big guys shitting on the small ones?
Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
You really don't have to have a political agenda to find JRG incredibly boring.
I agree football clubs are deeply rooted but this hasn’t stopped most Premier League clubs being taken over by foreign entities with no ties to the club or community. And whilst there was European wide opposition to the European Super League, the EPL will be a far easier nut to crack. The American’s are not in England for the love of the game and it’s naive to think they won’t start pushing an agenda. The real question, and real worry, is what will that agenda be?
You mean apart from the widely reported bid by Jim Ratcliffe for Man Utd that's been all over the sporting news recently?
portlock seagull
Well-known member
- Jul 28, 2003
- 17,776
Is he still here?
Neville's Breakfast
Well-known member
From reading your posts over a few years it sounds like you have been challenging the system for quite a long time. Bearing in mind all the facts and figures in the rest of your post how is that going and if the answer is ‘not great’ will this tactic begin working in time to save football?
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Sure, clubs like Brentford and Brighton are the hopes here but there would have to be more of them.
ESL was "killed off", or rather put to rest because it will be back as a suggestion, indeed. Would it have stopped fans going to games? I don't think so. Would fans stop watching the games on TV if they threatened to remove the promotion/relegation? I doubt it. Many fans of the clubs who were bought by foreign pigs said "I wouldn't want that, I'd stop going" and yet the stadiums are filled. Never mind TV. In the Future Premier League it'll be sad in the unlikely case the English fans stopped watching due to percieved holyness of the relegation/promotion concept but as if you can grow the markets in China, the US and elsewhere - the owners could just shrug off whatever you think about it.
I think the backlash would be massive yes, and then people would adapt and watch their teams in the Super Premier League. What happens in the National League or how important it is to your community, you think some ****ing American hedgefund capitalist gives a shit?
"Uh no... the reaction".. on the other hand: money.
The same reasons teams in the US don't want relegation: profit and attention. If you close the Premier League, it would be a lot easier to make the league profitable. If you can promise a American or Chinese TV networks that the 20 most popular teams in England would play in the PL each year, they'd be willing to pay more than if teams like Aston Villa, Newcastle or West Ham - sometimes several of them at the same time - would drop into another division and be replaced by a team like Huddersfield or some other that no one has heard of.
With a closed league, there would also be more (yes, even more) investment in the not-too-fancy clubs (like... Southampton) because there's no fear of missing out on your main sources of (growing) income and make massive losses. A team like Southampton could in that case have their future American owner splash £300m of the best talent from the rest of Europe and the world, knowing that the money are guaranteed to be repaid. And when all teams become better, it has several advantages in the Chinese-American tv sofa: more teams are able to compete for titles, more teams have exciting players that mr Chang Brucewillis would like to watch, and growth would inevitably happen in today underexploited markets and by taking shares from Italian and Spanish clubs.
The reality is this:
The NFL, which is surely the dream for American PL owners, is more profitable and bring in more TV money than the PL, and this is due to its advantage compared to competing leagues, and advantage achieved by the possibility to dominate through investing in the best players without financial risk because there is zero fear that a competing league will reach those standards or that a club will fall down into the obscurity of "NFL 2".
Sure, it also has to do with the domestic market being bigger than the UK domestic market. But unlike whatever they're playing in the NFL, football is popular all over the world and there's a greater, underutilized potential that makes it creamy in the pants of these yanks. American or Chinese TV companies might not be willing to spend as much as eg Sky Sports on football today, but as seen from other sports you can significantly increase the interest (which in the case of football is more dormant than non-existent) abroad if for instance Manchester United go and play a Premier League game against Liverpool in New York or Shanghai.
Why would these American businessmen buy clubs in the PL if they didn't think there was more money to milk out of it? Why would they not try to change the format and the rules in a direction that generates more money with less risk? Because a couple of million (most would get over it and keep watching their team) of increasingly impoverished Brits would sit and sob over Bristol City not being able to go to the top flight? I call that utopian.
What you describe is a league with more balance between the top clubs and the middle clubs. That seems like something the top 6 would want to avoid.
- Thread starter
- #39
Not necessarily disagreeing with that. I'm not reading that essay.
What I find very annoying is that I make a thread about football and the Premier League and its future and it takes ten minutes before GB wants to derail the thread into being about my personal views on America as a whole and some kind of Americans vs Arabs thing.
Can't have a sensible discussion on this board without this wanker destroying and derailing the thread into (irrelevant) politics and personal shit and it is pretty ****ing tiresome.
Typical JRG. A massive, multi part essay that most won’t read, and therefore challenge, culminating in a crowbarred in call for your real passion, socialism on a global scale.
What you and Swansman share is anti Americanism and therefore an agenda. Oh, and also not living in the country you’re pontificating about.
.....saved me the bother of reading it!