[Drinking] Alcoholic/like a beer or two too much?

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

I’m not naming it because I don’t want folk buying it online without clinical supervision.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Are you saying that charities had no interest in pursuing an off the shelf (I presume that's what you mean by 'generic'?) addiction remedy because it would put them out of business?

Actually there is good example of exactly this. We held a licence for generic buprenorphine, which is a heroin substitute, and wanted to make it into a “melt” formulation as this prevents addicts from hiding solid tablets in their mouths to sell to other addicts to fund illicit street heroin purchases.

Addicts on buprenorphine have to go to a chemist for supervised administration where the pharmacist has to watch you take it and check the pill is dissolved. This takes quite a while. Pharmacists don’t enjoy staring into drug addicts mouths for 5 minutes.

Obviously an instant-dissolve formulation is ideal but it costs a lot to vary the licence as it changes the bioavailability profile. The same goes for a liquid.

To fund it we tried to partner with a major addiction charity...they were initially receptive until the subject of cost came up.

Then they weren’t.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I was the marketing lead for this. We did the entire piece. Looked into alternate funding routes and discussed with a lot of NHS addiction service leads, the MHRA and NHS England. There was no getting around the fact that the generic pharma houses would have jumped on board within 5 minutes.

We looked at altering the formulation to make it a different presentation but that wasn’t enough of a differentiator to change prescribers to a brand.

The ethical thing to do would have been for the Government to fund the development cycle and alert prescribers to the efficacy. That way the addicts would receive the treatment they need. The issue here is that there is a very healthy market in private hands (priory etc) that would lose millions if addiction to alcohol was managed chemically...their lobby would certainly object. Charities too really have no interest in a “cure”;for addiction. They need a reason to exist after all.

It’s sad. But it’s certainly true.

Also. There isn’t a mechanism in Government to influence this.

You raise good points and I’m not disputing anything you say, but you are viewing this from one side. Health insurance companies, for example, have a financial interest in keeping people healthy and alive. This is why they fund a lot of non-pharma studies. A friend is being funded to run a study which looks into “cupping”. Clearly there’s no money to be made by pharma here, most probably they’d lose money if cupping was shown to be more safe and efficacious than whatever the pharmaceutical alternative is. Consequently theres little/no chance they’d fund this. This is where health insurance comes in; a rubber cup is way more cheaper than a course of drugs....if proven it’s of value to them....so they are funding this study. I see a parallel with your case. I agree your company most likely can’t make money from the drug itself....but there is money to be made elsewhere.

 

[BNthree]

From my own experience you need to actually want to quit not just feel like you should (begrudingly) do so. Not much help but a bit of thought on why you are thinking of quitting would probably be useful in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It’s not off the shelf. It’s a generic prescription only medicine.

Charities don’t own or fund pharmaceutical licence variations.
It’s down to a Pharma company to identify, develop, conduct a large scale clinical trial, submit an application to vary an existing licence, manufacture, change prescribing information, conduct stability testing, put in place a post launch surveillance strategy, package, get marketing authorisation, develop distribution channels, hire sales reps, take out appropriate insurance against claimants who are potentially harmed by a change of indication. Launch.

All of this can cost millions.

At which point a cheap generic house claims a “me too” licence and hoovers up the profit.

Sometimes it’s possible to get a patent extension for changes in formulation.

 

[Bozza]

I’ve always been a drinker.

I stopped on January 2nd, after finishing an open bottle of Sauvignon Blanc on the 1st left over from NYE and I’ve not had a drop since. It’s been something like 190 days now.

I will return to having a drink, likely on July 24th on the first day of our family holiday but I’m pretty sure I won’t return to drinking the same volume as I have previously.

It’s amazing how quickly I’ve lost the habit of drinking - I now never consider it routinely at the end of the day, on weekend evenings nor when out when I would nearly always be drinking.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Out of interest, how did the drug work, as the FDA has three such drugs approved for alcohol disorder?

One makes you sick if you drink even a small amount. One allows you to get drunk, but suppresses the pleasure associated. The last one eases withdrawal symptoms.

If yours is significantly different and with such high efficacy, I'm sure crowd funding would easily cover the costs of licencing.

It costs a fortune. Im not sure crowd funding will work.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Interesting discussion but it’s going way off the original topic. I’ll stop now.

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

I’ve always been a drinker.

I stopped on January 2nd, after finishing an open bottle of Sauvignon Blanc on the 1st left over from NYE and I’ve not had a drop since. It’s been something like 190 days now.

I will return to having a drink, likely on July 24th on the first day of our family holiday but I’m pretty sure I won’t return to drinking the same volume as I have previously.

It’s amazing how quickly I’ve lost the habit of drinking - I now never consider it routinely at the end of the day, on weekend evenings nor when out when I would nearly always be drinking.

Totally this. People ask me if I've given up drinking. I say no - I could have a beer tomorrow. I just don't need or want one. It's been a complete mind shift. I'm still a bit amazed by it. Out with a client last night for drinks and food, and I just stuck with tap water. Still had a great evening. Woke up feeling sprightly, the others apparently did not.

 

[the right footed denilson]

Totally this. People ask me if I've given up drinking. I say no - I could have a beer tomorrow. I just don't need or want one. It's been a complete mind shift. I'm still a bit amazed by it. Out with a client last night for drinks and food, and I just stuck with tap water. Still had a great evening. Woke up feeling sprightly, the others apparently did not.

I gave up for a year last year, and am thinking about knocking it on the head for good now.
Very much agree with the mindshift thing. I told my mates- "I don't want to. I could drink, but I don't want to". And suddenly it went from feeling impossible to something I had total ownership of.

Biggest problem i found was mates getting used to you not drinking(and family, actually- Christmas etc).
And how bloody annoying nearly all of them are when they're drunk and you're not.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

I can honestly say that there's hardly a moment in my waking day when I wouldn't fancy a pint. Luckily (consequently) I tend to limit myself unitl 9,00pm. My grandad was an alcoholic who hanged himself and it casts a bit of a shadow,

 

[Megazone]

Remind yourself how crap drink makes you feel. Tired, forgetful, sloppy, ill etc.

Remind yourself how old and rundown drink can also make you look.

Remind yourself of all the great things you've done in your life without drink

 

[Wilko]

I’ve always been a drinker.

I stopped on January 2nd, after finishing an open bottle of Sauvignon Blanc on the 1st left over from NYE and I’ve not had a drop since. It’s been something like 190 days now.

I will return to having a drink, likely on July 24th on the first day of our family holiday but I’m pretty sure I won’t return to drinking the same volume as I have previously.

It’s amazing how quickly I’ve lost the habit of drinking - I now never consider it routinely at the end of the day, on weekend evenings nor when out when I would nearly always be drinking.

Good going that mate, looks like it has helped with the exercise/running too. I have got the point now where I consider myself a mindful drinker. i record my units on an app which is useful, I do not drink in the week and often I do not drink at all at weekends. When I do drink now it is just a few, I went on a stag do at the weekend which was the most I have drunk for a while but I actually hit a brickwall and switch to water as I simply do not want to drink after pint 4 or 5.

Just checked the app. I have not had a drink for 254 of the last 276 days. On those days I have had a drink it is often just one or two.

 

[StillHateBellotti]

Mine started after Tsunami in 2004 (I was 30 metres from the beach in Phuket) and came to a head in 2015 after being diagnosed with PTSD. I’d drink any time of day, night, morning and anything I could get my hands on, hide the evidence.

It’s a community detox, medicated and with vitamins etc, breath tested every morning. I was not looking forward to it but there is a mix of people, one man released from hospital who said one more beer and he is dead, a heavy metal rocker who falls asleep, 3 on pub watch schemes and a 70 year old woman who spends £1300 a month.

It feels surreal, but even after 4 days I feel amazing and as some have said I have been reading the evidence and science of alcohol which is an eye opener. All tips have been greatl received.

 

[Tokyohands]

Japan has quite the heavy drinking culture. It's OK to drink anywhere in public, it's not really frowned upon to be stupidly drunk in public (as long as you ain't causing others bother), there are plenty of cheap all-you-can-drink offers around and you can buy alcohol 24 hours too easily. I wasn't a big drinker until I came here 14 years ago, then I was out most nights of the week drinking heavily and often going straight from the bar/club to the office in the morning, where I kept a bottle of whiskey under the desk to top my coffee up with when I started getting a bit tired. They did even sell cans of beer in the drink machine at my office until a few years ago.

My wife, with the patience of a saint, put up with it mostly but would often tell me she's worried about my health. Eventually a few years ago, as the kids got a little bigger and started being more aware of my behaviour, I realised I had to change. I started by not drinking on Mondays, then added Tuesdays and Wednesdays but I usually go out for a drink n feed Thursdays although I've cut out the hard liquor (which has made a big difference) sticking to beer and wine and usually make sure I get home 12 or 1ish latest for some sleep. If I drink Thursday then I usually abstain Friday but I do drink Saturday and Sunday as we often spend the days together with friends and their families.

Overall, I still want to drink less but am much better now than I was. I will try reading some of the recommendations on here as I do usually find myself gummin for a beer by Wednesday but am able to resist. Thanks for the tips and I wish everyone else who's having a bit of a struggle all the best.

 

[Durlston]

...

 

[Bry Nylon]

...my aim is to give up booze completely, so any tips would be welcomeI am on day three? Cheers.

I'm on day 9 now. I decided to stop drinking nine days ago and have been drinking water instead. Tap water is hardly a thrilling substitute and it is taking some will power, especially as I have 4 San Miguel in the fridge and 4 more by the kitchen door but I am determined to do this. On the plus side, I have lost a bit of timber, feel alot more alert and I've saved a few quid too.

I hope you're still on track, whatever your own goal is.

 

[withdeanwombat]

Hang in there. It’s bloomin’ hard to do.

October 20th 2018 when I stopped. I’m fitter, lighter and healthier, and don’t miss wine o’clock moving closer and closer to midday, a little after a cider or two to help lunch, and somewhat before the tumbler of malt whisky for a nightcap.

You CAN do it. Just keep telling yourself.

 

[spring hall convert]

Gave up getting on for 2 1/2 years ago. Beyond any shadow of a doubt the best thing I've done after 20 years of heavy drinking of varying degrees of extremity.

 

[Mr Banana]

Some really good stuff on this here thread.

Two ideas that have had some success for me:

Never drinking alone - although this tends to be effective cos I know almost no-one and, when I do see people, they tend to instantly think I'm a c(nt, whereas if I have a drink or two they react a bit better.

Exercising hard daily - sprints on a treadmill, say, are particularly horrendous if you're hungover, so that's a demotivating factor when it comes to beer. Also, vigorous exercise releases some of those good feelings that being pissed does.