Albion U21s v West Ham United U21s - 7pm tonight at the Amex Stadium

[BigGully]

I agree with you and that appears to be what the club are focusing on in the long term, but at the moment we don't have a plethora of players from the local area who are ready to play for the u21s/development squad so we will have to scout our players from elsewhere for the time being to fill the void.

How did we succeed in 2006'sh getting to the quarter finals of the FA Youth Cup with exclusively Sussex based players, something that hadnt happened previously or unlikely to EVER happen again ??

My monies on Wilkins, by all accounts he is a jewel in the crown when it comes to player development, so perhaps youth development ultimately isnt about shiny new building, billiard table pitches or engineered signings, its about prioritising developing young (local) talent.

This isnt a comment on the young professionals more on the overall policy that isnt delivering any measurable success anyway.

 

[ewe2]

To have ,it seems not one player at this moment,from our youth teams,not considered for the first team,is not progress IMO.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

How did we succeed in 2006'sh getting to the quarter finals of the FA Youth Cup ... something that hadnt happened previously or unlikely to EVER happen again ??

Why won't it? 'Ever' is a long time.

My monies on Wilkins, by all accounts he is a jewel in the crown when it comes to player development, so perhaps youth development ultimately isnt about shiny new building, billiard table pitches or engineered signings, its about prioritising developing young (local) talent.

Wilkins' situation was massivley unfortunate. He was doing a tremendous job with the youngsters, and a pretty decent fist of the first team, for me. The 8-0 FA Cup win with 11 local lads featuring, remains one of my favourite Albion matches. However, Wilkins loved to coach talented youngsters. He would have happily coached a brilliant kid, with a good attitude, regardless of their provenance. Molumby has been singled out by pretty much everyone as our U21's best player, at the age of 16. You wouldn't have signed him.

This isnt a comment on the young professionals more on the overall policy that isnt delivering any measurable success anyway.

This is nonsense, by the way. You of all people are completely aware that 'measurable success' of the academy system and development squad is nothing to do with U21 league tables, or runs in the FA Youth Cup. Its about producing young players capable of stepping up to the first team.

How are the appearances of Dunk, Forster-Caskey, Ince, Walton, etc in first team Championship squads, NOT 'measurable'?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

To have ,it seems not one player at this moment,from our youth teams,not considered for the first team,is not progress IMO.

Lewis Dunk?

 

[spence]

Attended the game last night, my first U21 game for a while. Overall I was quite impressed with the squad - we've certainly come a long way recently and we were playing a team such as West Ham with a historically good academy. I thought that Ward and Monakana on the wings showed good pace and skill at times and I thought Hambo and Harper showed some good touches on their return to fitness. For me Molumby looked so composed for a 16 year old and definitely our best player, he's got a bright player. This said, their lad from Norway - Samulesen - looked an absolute class above. I wouldn't say any of them are ready for first team football. I think it was a fair result but a good squad that's learning a lot in a league of strong opposition.

I watched a few games last year and it actually seems we have gone backwards this year

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Let's not FORGET Rea's progression to the first team squad, just because he is out on loan.

 

[ewe2]

Lewis Dunk?

Yes in the past Dunk JFC,etc,i agree,but now........it seems,nothing ,even Harper and Hambro,according to NSC player watchers are some way off.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Yes in the past Dunk JFC,etc,i agree,but now........it seems,nothing ,even Harper and Hambro,according to NSC player watchers are some way off.

FFS, neither Harper or Hambo have played 90 minutes yet - its just a LITTLE early to write them off.

Glen Rea and James Tilley have both made first team squads in the last few months. (and despite what Big Gully would have you believe, are from Hove and Billingshurst, rather than San Sebastien and Bratislava)

 

[Machiavelli]

Thank you @HKFC for saving me the bother of contributing to this thread.
We like a good moan on NSC but, when it comes to all things B&HA, most seem to be heading in the right direction if at different trajectories, which is unsurprising as the various facets (board, manager, squad, first team, development squad, fan-base) of the club have different temporalities.

 

[Megazone]

Haven't we got a highly rated Spanish youngster on our books. I'm might be wrong but weren't Real Madrid looking at him?

 

[spence]

Yes in the past Dunk JFC,etc,i agree,but now........it seems,nothing ,even Harper and Hambro,according to NSC player watchers are some way off.

It happens like that. You could go a few years and produce nothing then suddenly a few come along at once.

As mentioned what about Rea? Walton? Even Tiley has made a brief appearance.

For me personally it has to be Walton.

 

[BigGully]

Why won't it? 'Ever' is a long time.



Wilkins' situation was massivley unfortunate. He was doing a tremendous job with the youngsters, and a pretty decent fist of the first team, for me. The 8-0 FA Cup win with 11 local lads featuring, remains one of my favourite Albion matches. However, Wilkins loved to coach talented youngsters. He would have happily coached a brilliant kid, with a good attitude, regardless of their provenance. Molumby has been singled out by pretty much everyone as our U21's best player, at the age of 16. You wouldn't have signed him.



This is nonsense, by the way. You of all people are completely aware that 'measurable success' of the academy system and development squad is nothing to do with U21 league tables, or runs in the FA Youth Cup. Its about producing young players capable of stepping up to the first team.

How are the appearances of Dunk, Forster-Caskey, Ince, Walton, etc in first team Championship squads, NOT 'measurable'?

Point 1. The discussion is more about the coming years and I doubt we will.

Point 2. I cannot comment on Molumby personally but nope I wouldnt of signed him, I guess Wilkins/Rusk/me/you or any incumbent coach would be too busy dealing with others, perhaps Jordan Maguire Drew or Tilley, or some kid from Hollingdean that just got squirted out because of Molumby, or the American kid, or the Icelandic kid that got the contract.

Point 3. To some extent that is the problem, everything is kind of immeasurable when it come to academy football, losing, winning, progression whatever, is extremely hard to measure, there can be a set of circumstances that offer a first team opportunity to any young footballer that might be wholly unintentional, but that remains the ultimate aim. However I do tend to think that the FA Youth Cup is a competition that might offer an insight into the health of an academy, or more so those teams within it, certainly for say the last 16 teams upwards, but again even that you cannot be sure.

Point 4. Ince or Walton are not a product of our academy system.

Look we cannot be sure of the work being done within our academy, I know some that are close and very negative about some of the work whilst others are very complimentary, my point was more about the recruitment and the slow lurch towards an anti local base recruitment policy.

Just signing players from far away doesnt mean we are fishing in the same pond as Man Utd, Liverpool or Arsenal and the rest, we go to the tradesman door at the back and if so why not try to develop the kids we do have here.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Point 1. The discussion is more about the coming years and I doubt we will.

Point 2. I cannot comment on Molumby personally but nope I wouldnt of signed him, I guess Wilkins/Rusk/me/you or any incumbent coach would be too busy dealing with others, perhaps Jordan Maguire Drew or Tilley, or some kid from Hollingdean that just got squirted out because of Molumby, or the American kid, or the Icelandic kid that got the contract.

Point 3. To some extent that is the problem, everything is kind of immeasurable when it come to academy football, losing, winning, progression whatever, is extremely hard to measure, there can be a set of circumstances that offer a first team opportunity to any young footballer that might be wholly unintentional, but that remains the ultimate aim. However I do tend to think that the FA Youth Cup is a competition that might offer an insight into the health of an academy, or more so those teams within it, certainly for say the last 16 teams upwards, but again even that you cannot be sure.

Point 4. Ince or Walton are not a product of our academy system.

Look we cannot be sure of the work being done within our academy, I know some that are close and very negative about some of the work whilst others are very complimentary, my point was more about the recruitment and the slow lurch towards an anti local base recruitment policy.

Just signing players from far away doesnt mean we are fishing in the same pond as Man Utd, Liverpool or Arsenal and the rest, we go to the tradesman door at the back and if so why not try to develop the kids we do have here.

I want the best available young players at the club. Ideally they would be from Whitehawk or Woodingdean, but if BETTER players are available elsewhere, they should come. Nobody (should) want(s) mediocre imports, from Ireland or anywhere else.

I specifically said 'our academy / development squad system', through which Ince and Walton have indeed passed.

 

[BigGully]

I want the best available young players at the club. Ideally they would be from Whitehawk or Woodingdean, but if BETTER players are available elsewhere, they should come. Nobody (should) want(s) mediocre imports, from Ireland or anywhere else.

I specifically said 'our academy / development squad system', through which Ince and Walton have indeed passed.

But my point that underpins my view is that we are not recruiting better, rather than be personal to those young players I have offered a point about what countries we are recruiting from and if already frequented by the bigger clubs, we are thrown the best of the rest.

Of course that doesnt mean they wont go on to become good players, sometimes the further afield you are from the more vested interest your recipient club might have in offering you the opportunities and support ahead of others, but if you experience high level youth football, once you get past the very top youth players (which we will not access), you very quickly tumble down to a similar talent pool.

Thats the key bit, then the decisions and outcomes are then driven purely by policy.

You can wrap up Ince and Walton how you wish, they are not a product of our academy

 

[HermTalks]

I watched a few games last year and it actually seems we have gone backwards this year

Thanks for this. I didn't see any last year so a gap of not watching for about 4 or 5 years seemed progress to me. What do you put this down to? Out of interest.

 

[amexer]

I watched academy for 2nd time last night. Very impressed with second half after completely outplayed in first. Because club are grade 1 academy club and therefore put in top under 21 league. I am sure preference is for more local lads to be playing but as we are in this league it is important that we are able to compete which despite results we are. I am sure in lower age groups players are more local and it is up to them to show they are good enough to reach under 21 side

 

[Thunder Bolt]

But my point that underpins my view is that we are not recruiting better, rather than be personal to those young players I have offered a point about what countries we are recruiting from and if already frequented by the bigger clubs, we are thrown the best of the rest.

Of course that doesnt mean they wont go on to become good players, sometimes the further afield you are from the more vested interest your recipient club might have in offering you the opportunities and support ahead of others, but if you experience high level youth football, once you get past the very top youth players (which we will not access), you very quickly tumble down to a similar talent pool.

Thats the key bit, then the decisions and outcomes are then driven purely by policy.

You can wrap up Ince and Walton how you wish, they are not a product of our academy

JFC & Solly March are in the England U21s team. We have brought Walton on, from his ability when he was at Plymouth. As we are the top team in the Championship, it is more difficult for these youngsters to break into the first team regularly, whereas when we were in league 1, it was easier for them.

 

[perseus]

On watching on my computer, I thought that the game was a bit faster than Under 21 games I had seen before (mostly by them) and there was hardly a player on the pitch from both sides that had a chance of getting anywhere near our first team.

Except, perhaps Walton, who seemed something special as a keeper going for balls that lesser keepers would not even consider.

And Hunt can foul just like Bruno!

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

According to someone I knew who knows West Ham inside out, their top prospects among those who played last night are Idris Kanu (the number 9), who was making his debut at under-21 level, did nothing and was subbed, and Cullen, the number 8 and captain. Both have been tipped for future stardom by Bilic - but Kanu's future is further off. Ditto with us and Molumby, I think.

 

[Peter Grummit]

According to someone I knew who knows West Ham inside out, their top prospects among those who played last night are Idris Kanu (the number 9), who was making his debut at under-21 level, did nothing and was subbed, and Cullen, the number 8 and captain. Both have been tipped for future stardom by Bilic - but Kanu's future is further off. Ditto with us and Molumby, I think.

I felt Cullen was the best player on the pitch, certainly first half. Old fashioned box-to-box midfielder happy to put his foot in. But Molumby showed some promising touches and was not frightened of a challenge either.

I think I might have been sat in front of you, Not Andy Naylor, 1st half FWIW.

PG