Albion Named and Shamed

[dazzer6666]

Why is it that there are a significant number of people who are, seemingly, staunch Albion supporters but who are forever in the starting blocks, waiting to leap gleefully onto any bandwagon which offers them the opportunity to criticise 'their' club? Taking a balanced view or being in possession of the all the facts seems to be unnecessary - they WANT to criticise the club, so they will do so with great relish. I don't understand it.

Absolutely. I don't get it either. Loads of NSC threads seem to negative towards the club, and act as a platform for the stone-throwers to sound off and moan about literally anything and appear to enjoy being critical. Just in the last couple of days :

'Albion named and shamed'
'Ideas for a better atmosphere'
'Beer curfew 10 mins before KO'
'Tea and coffee and late 1901 ticket'
'Have given up trying to get good (sic) or drink in 1901'
'What's hacked you off most in recent weeks'

.....not forgetting into account all the other threads that have club-negative comments in them.

 

[SAC]

From what I read in the clubs statement, it seems to me that by paying a person on work experience too much in the way of expenses, changed his status from an exempt person to a non exempt person.
There are rules which state that only reasonable and relevant expenses should be paid, otherwise the person becomes someone who is paid and therefore has to be paid minimum wage.
This is not the club being tight, it is the club falling foul of a rule that allows them to pay nothing, but if they pay something they have to pay minimum wage.

Here is an example from HMRC.
Example 3: work experience with a financial reward

David successfully applies for a work experience position in a small graphic design company, after seeing an advert offering £50 ‘travel expenses’ for each week. He receives these ‘travel expenses’ despite walking to work.

David should be paid at least the NMW.

Paying a financial reward which is more than paying back genuine ‘out-of-pocket’ expenses is evidence that David is a worker for NMW purposes.

you can read all about it here https://www.gov.uk/guidance/national-minimum-wage-work-experience-and-internships

The rules seem quite straight forward yet most on here think that someone at the club made a genuine mistake as opposed to thinking they could get away with it. £2861.64 is probably a fortune for the individual and around a couple of hours work for one of the top earners at the club.

It may only be one employee but the HMRC are right to name and shame employers breaking the rules as it will hopefully act as a deterrent to others businesses. I agree it is a bit rich when they make so many mistakes themselves.

 

[SAC]

Absolutely. I don't get it either. Loads of NSC threads seem to negative towards the club, and act as a platform for the stone-throwers to sound off and moan about literally anything and appear to enjoy being critical. Just in the last couple of days :

'Albion named and shamed'
'Ideas for a better atmosphere'
'Beer curfew 10 mins before KO'
'Tea and coffee and late 1901 ticket'
'Have given up trying to get good (sic) or drink in 1901'
'What's hacked you off most in recent weeks'

.....not forgetting into account all the other threads that have club-negative comments in them.

Maybe people expect better from them? Not everyone will just put up / shut up.

 

[yxee]

I don't think we need to know all the ins and outs of what happened in this one particular incident, as its clearly been rectified.
.

I would actually like to know, since the explanation provided by the club makes no sense.

 

[halbpro]

The rules seem quite straight forward yet most on here think that someone at the club made a genuine mistake as opposed to thinking they could get away with it. £2861.64 is probably a fortune for the individual and around a couple of hours work for one of the top earners at the club.

It may only be one employee but the HMRC are right to name and shame employers breaking the rules as it will hopefully act as a deterrent to others businesses. I agree it is a bit rich when they make so many mistakes themselves.

The minimum wage rules are quite clear. The rules the club have fallen afoul of are less obvious I feel, and quite easy to accidentally make a mistake in regards too.

All that happened is they paid someone too much in expenses. Because they did this it reclassified them as an employee, rather than as someone on work experience, which the government says is what should happen. As they were an employee they deserved to be paid minimum wage, but the club was not deliberately underpaying someone they'd contracted as an employee, but had simply reclassified someone accidentally.

Edit: To clarify, when I say they "paid someone too much in expenses" I mean they paid someone expenses they were not entitled to. The club are only meant to pay genuine out of pocket expenses (like travel), but it seems the club reimbursed them for expenses that were not occurred. Someone earlier has posted the relevant regulation (my apologies for not being able to credit the correct person).

 

[dazzer6666]

Maybe people expect better from them? Not everyone will just put up / shut up.

Sometimes, yes agreed. Whinging on t'internet isn't going to change much though is it.......and there is definitely a cohort of individuals that seemingly can't wait to have a pop, often without reading all the facts, and often (not untypical these days) over-dramatising things as the worst thing that's ever happened when it clearly isn't.

 

[BLOCK F]

Why is it that there are a significant number of people who are, seemingly, staunch Albion supporters but who are forever in the starting blocks, waiting to leap gleefully onto any bandwagon which offers them the opportunity to criticise 'their' club? Taking a balanced view or being in possession of the all the facts seems to be unnecessary - they WANT to criticise the club, so they will do so with great relish. I don't understand it.

In this particular incidence, it is because their foaming at the mouth rabid fruit loop politics gets the better of them.
They are quite likely amongst the number who are doing their best to ensure the Labour Party is unelectable.

 

[Knotty]

Maybe people expect better from them? Not everyone will just put up / shut up.

You completely miss the point.

 

[Bodian]

At our place we have around 200 staff, and about 350 volunteers. One person was working as a member of staff two days a week, and was volunteering in a totally different role with us for three days a week. Everyone was happy - both the organisation and the individual.

However, we then got into trouble - because HMRC deemed the individual to actually be employed for five days, and we were told that this was wrong as it put them on a below the minimum wage salary when the two days pay was spread over five.

No real mistake by anyone, no-one taken advantage off - just a complicated set of rules that we didn't really know existed.

Anyhow, they now have a full-time, permanent job with us, in the area they were volunteering in - so it all worked for us all in the long run.

 

[Jam The Man]

Speaking from experience, I have in the past worked for two major organisations, and each of them on one occasion apiece failed to pay the ENTIRE workforce.
For company one, that equated to 150,000 employees
For company two, that equated to 5000 employees.

It's totally out of order, but sometimes cock ups and honest mistakes DO happen. I don't believe we or anyone should tarnish the club too much for what has happened, especially when they have gone to lengths to remedy the matter.

What IS a shame, is that this follows on the back of most supporters annoyance at the Seven Stars issue, and other niggling issues.

Regardless of the rights and wrongs, the #together banner, so immensely strong last season, doesn't look too cheery at this present time.

Onwards and upwards!

 

[Return of the Rev]

With all that cup final cash swilling around it does seem pretty mean

 

[timbha]

I cant be bothered to read 12 pages of "I'm an expert on this".

Appears to me that we have a set of "fans" who cant wait to pounce on every mention of the Albion in the media and make it into some sort of conspiracy. The club employs / engages HR and legal experts, win awards that have been judged by experts and try to keep the fans informed.........yet one minor indiscretion leads to 12 pages of negativity on a so called "fans" forum. Insider tries to explain and is shot down by posters who cant even read his reply properly.

The club is professional in all areas, it is no longer propped up by volunteers.

Ditto the guess the ticket upgrade costs, 1901 food threads, etc (they are so funny). If you don't want to support the club then you know what you can do.

If you have a complaint contact the club

 

[Caveman]

Guess the club now know what those lads feel like who got stitched up in France against the Russians, one mistake and taken to the cleaners. Not nice.

 

[cjd]

Should we have a NSC posters 'Name and Shame' list for those who persistently criticise the club at every opportunity...?

Such as;...Ernest

Albion my Albion

Norman Baker suck my lozenge

HerrTubthumper

I,m sure there are plenty of others ?

 

[Ernest]

Should we have a NSC posters 'Name and Shame' list for those who persistently criticise the club at every opportunity...?

Such as;...Ernest

Albion my Albion

Norman Baker suck my lozenge

HerrTubthumper

I,m sure there are plenty of others ?

If WE lose tomorrow you can add THOUSANDS to the list

 

[Albion my Albion]

Speaking from experience, I have in the past worked for two major organisations, and each of them on one occasion apiece failed to pay the ENTIRE workforce.
For company one, that equated to 150,000 employees
For company two, that equated to 5000 employees.

It's totally out of order, but sometimes cock ups and honest mistakes DO happen. I don't believe we or anyone should tarnish the club too much for what has happened, especially when they have gone to lengths to remedy the matter.

What IS a shame, is that this follows on the back of most supporters annoyance at the Seven Stars issue, and other niggling issues.

Regardless of the rights and wrongs, the #together banner, so immensely strong last season, doesn't look too cheery at this present time.

Onwards and upwards!

I'm sure all the employees were just fine with not getting paid on time and said it was an honest mistake. Sure. No one at all got upset because they couldn't pay their rent on time. Or buy food for their families.

 

[drew]

I'm sure all the employees were just fine with not getting paid on time and said it was an honest mistake. Sure. No one at all got upset because they couldn't pay their rent on time. Or buy food for their families.

I believe that the vast majority of posters on this thread think you are a berk of the highest order. It goes without saying that I'm starting with an insult at the lower end of the spectrum but many will consider it should be higher! people make mistakes but apparently you don't.

 

[Albion my Albion]

I wonder what the general response to this thread had been if it had been Crystal Palace football club that had messed up the reimbursed expenses of one of their employees which had caused them to be put in a different category of employee and caused them to be guilty of improperly paying their employee. I believe the reaction by people on this message board would have been totally different.

In either case, whether it was BHAFC or CPFC I would have been just as adamant that the employee should never have been paid incorrectly and that the punishment received by the football club, whether BHAFC or CPFC, handed out by HMRC was fair.

 

[dazzer6666]

I wonder what the general response to this thread had been if it had been Crystal Palace football club that had messed up the reimbursed expenses of one of their employees which had caused them to be put in a different category of employee and caused them to be guilty of improperly paying their employee. I believe the reaction by people on this message board would have been totally different.

In either case, whether it was BHAFC or CPFC I would have been just as adamant that the employee should never have been paid incorrectly and that the punishment received by the football club, whether BHAFC or CPFC, handed out by HMRC was fair.

Point missed. We're supposed to be supporters, but the are those who are looking for every opportunity to slag off the club.

 

[Albion my Albion]

Have you ever visited planet earth?

Yes, people make fatal errors in driving their cars too. Does that mean we should call it a "bit of a driving error" when someone drives over the line and collides head on with another car. I consider the error in a payroll situation as serious. BTW, I work in the payroll department of my company and is the main reason I feel so strongly about this. My company employs over 6,000 and we have never made a mistake that went out to pay before it was caught at least in the rules of employment that are previously known. We take it that seriously. It effects people's lives to a large amount.