[News] Alastair Campbell expelled.

[drew]

So Blair had no knowledge of the sexing up of the "facts". Is that really what you are claiming?

Where is your sense of justice for the people who are really affected.

If we cannot hold our own leaders to account for bad behaviour we are morally bankrupt and we should not be surprised when extremists seek justice for themselves.

At the time, there was no concrete evidence there were no WMDs, but what we did know was that Saddam had used them previously and that he wasn't complying fully with the inspectors. The only real reason why there was no UN mandate was because both France and Russia had too much at stake in Iraq so would never vote for it.

You go on about the hundreds of thousands killed because of Blair but the evidence is that during the conflict, about 24k were killed by US led coalition forces (according to the Iraq Body Count website https://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/ ). The vast majority are muslim on muslim killings which is what was happening before except it was Saddam that was doing the killing.

 

[drew]

I agree, that is not what I am saying, they've not been forced out, they've left, or made their membership untenable. It's funny we call them 'moderates' but not moderate enough to tolerate politics a bit further to the left.

Depends on how you define 'a bit'!!

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Campbell would feel at home in the Lib Dems, a party full of condescending, duplicitous, undemocratic loons, it was ever thus ...

 

[Bold Seagull]

At the time, there was no concrete evidence there were no WMDs, but what we did know was that Saddam had used them previously and that he wasn't complying fully with the inspectors. The only real reason why there was no UN mandate was because both France and Russia had too much at stake in Iraq so would never vote for it.

You go on about the hundreds of thousands killed because of Blair but the evidence is that during the conflict, about 24k were killed by US led coalition forces (according to the Iraq Body Count website https://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/ ). The vast majority are muslim on muslim killings which is what was happening before except it was Saddam that was doing the killing.

Other than the 700 inspections over 500 sites Hans Blix made finding nothing. How do you prove the absence of something? You can only prove the existence of WMDs, not evidence of the absence....the concrete evidence of absence was their absence!

 

[piersa]

I cannot believe people/media give Campbell the oxygen of publicity. He and Blair are vile.

 

[BLOCK F]

Depends on how you define 'a bit'!!

Spot on, Drew.
I think our fellow Albion fan,Bold, is actually one of the more Left Lefties on the board.
Each to their own, but as you say, define a bit!

 

[Dick Head]

What does Kate Hoey have to do to get expelled?

Vote for the Brexit Party and make it public knowledge. She's flown close to the sun but her sucking Farage's knob isn't against the rules, unfortunately.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Spot on, Drew.
I think our fellow Albion fan,Bold, is actually one of the more Left Lefties on the board.
Each to their own, but as you say, define a bit!

I can define a bit by taking the Labour Party manifesto of 2010 and 2015, comparing it to 2017, and in comparison I think it was fair to say 'a bit'.

 

[symyjym]

At the time, there was no concrete evidence there were no WMDs, but what we did know was that Saddam had used them previously and that he wasn't complying fully with the inspectors. The only real reason why there was no UN mandate was because both France and Russia had too much at stake in Iraq so would never vote for it.

You go on about the hundreds of thousands killed because of Blair but the evidence is that during the conflict, about 24k were killed by US led coalition forces (according to the Iraq Body Count website https://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/ ). The vast majority are muslim on muslim killings which is what was happening before except it was Saddam that was doing the killing.

So you believe that we were right to ignore Hans Blix, the UN Chief Weapons Inspector, who had been directly involved in Iraq on the ground, and the only one with qualified opinion?

And sticking our middle finger up at the UN weapons inspector despite his findings on the basis that France and Russia had interests in the country

Only 24,000 killed Let's not include the fallout and the torturing of innocent people and the fight back where the real numbers for our invasion really counts up. How very convenient for you that we only killed 24,000 people directly in the initial invasion.

 

[Nitram]

A further indication that Momentum is really the ‘Labour’ party. Petty and quick to dig out it’s detractors nothing like the broad church it once was. And on the day it’s being investigated for anti Semitism which takes years to investigate claims about its members but can get rid of a true Labour supporter over a weekend.

 

[A1X]

Also intrigued to know what international crime Blair has allegedly broken...

Indeed. Also, who knew there were so many international lawyers knocking about the place? International Law must be the new Media Studies.

 

[ATFC Seagull]

The purge of Labour of the exact type of voter they need to win continues. Green for me from now on

Apart from supporting EU membership/a second referendum, how can you possibly vote Green on the basis of your support for Alastair Campbell? Have you cross referenced his views with their manifesto?

 

[symyjym]

Indeed. Also, who knew there were so many international lawyers knocking about the place? International Law must be the new Media Studies.

Don't be stupid the Chilcot report is very clear:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36721645

 

[symyjym]

[MENTION=5208]drew[/MENTION]

Just to confirm your body count numbers of 24k is nonsense and you just want to argue the toss. Nice try but if you read the Chilcot report it would agree with my claim.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36721645

"The government failed to achieve the stated objectives it had set itself in Iraq. More than 200 British citizens died as a result of the conflict. Iraqi people suffered greatly. By July 2009, at least 150,000 Iraqis had died, probably many more. More than one million were displaced"

What is wrong with you people ffs?

 

[ATFC Seagull]

Indeed. Also, who knew there were so many international lawyers knocking about the place? International Law must be the new Media Studies.

When I was doing my degree modules in International Law, it was basically the introductory topic to introduce undergraduates to the concept, hardly rocket science.

Arguments it was legal:
- Vaguely worded UNSC resolution - can't remember exactly but something like "authorises reasonable force"
- Saddam Hussein was being a pain in the arse regarding weapons inspectors

Arguments it was illegal:
- Most accepted that the UNSC resolution was not specific enough to mandate an invasion, Britain tried to push for new, clearer one, but failed
- Saddam Hussein was allowing inspectors in by the time the invasion started

There's a debate to be had, but it's hardly one that needs to be reserved for academics.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

Apart from supporting EU membership/a second referendum, how can you possibly vote Green on the basis of your support for Alastair Campbell? Have you cross referenced his views with their manifesto?

Where have I said I follow what he does? I just said that people who do share his views are the people Labour need to win.

As you asked, I voted Greens as, for me, they are on the right side of the two most crucial issues of today - Brexit and the Climate Crisis. Lib Dems are too, but Greens more so

 

[ATFC Seagull]

Where have I said I follow what he does? I just said that people who do share his views are the people Labour need to win.

As you asked, I voted Greens as, for me, they are on the right side of the two most crucial issues of today - Brexit and the Climate Crisis. Lib Dems are too, but Greens more so

Fair enough - you said that their treatment of him was the reason you'd be voting Green from now on, so I assumed a degree of sympathy for him.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

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[Weststander]

Labour don't want the centre-left or moderates.

They'll never win an election under Corbyn, thank God. And I say that as a life-long Labour voter. I'm siding with the Lib Dems atm,

The best Corbyn can hope for is to be the largest party and to form a coalition.

Especially now that they’ve been as good as obliterated from Scotland (at Westminster MP level), no way in the world will Corbyn win 326 plus seats in England and Wales. That’s a rarity, which Blair achieved in 1997 by winning the vote of the left, centre and even some traditional Tories who wanted a new direction after the inept Major premiership.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

It's ok for Corbyn to vote against Labour in the HOC.

[tweet]1133418133962854401[/tweet]