Agnostic vs Atheist

[Triggaaar]

I would love to find out he is real as well, I would kick him in the nuts for inventing cancer and shove a brick up his omnipotent arse for mass murder through the use of Tsunamis, earthquakes, floods and the such like. What a #@N%.

God help him.

 

[Hungry Joe]

I have the courage of my convictions. I must confess, I hadn't realised until now how much agnosticism annoys atheists but this thread is an eye-opener. I'm an agnostic and happy to admit it. I don't believe in an anthropomorphic deity but I don't rule out a force in the universe (cue Star Wars jokes) completely beyond our understanding that some interpret as God. And I'm perfectly happy and reconciled with that.

Aye, that's the trouble when you put a label on something and call it a thing, people can get very possessive and precious about it. That's always been my beef with the more rampant Atheists, they end up sounding like the religious zealots they are dumbfounded by.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Mejona's question of the day


Do people who believe in god (and him creating the world and jesus n all that), not believe in dinosaurs?

 

[half time scores]

At least atheism is non prophet.

 

[Bold Seagull]

You say it's impossible for a creator to create itself but you're happy to accept a universe creating itself. Genuine question - what's the difference?

The difference is the universe didn't create itself.

 

[Buzzer]

The difference is the universe didn't create itself.

To all intents and purposes it did though. One minute there was nothing, then a big bang and then a universe. Something came from nothing.

 

[Wilko]

You say it's impossible for a creator to create itself but you're happy to accept a universe creating itself. Genuine question - what's the difference?

I know you were not asking me but my take on this is that Atheists do not claim the big bang to be fact, the science suggests this is the very best theory we have at the moment, the empirical evidence is strong but what created/caused/came before it we cannot answer, as science and new developments progress then there is flexibility to change our minds and perhaps look back at previous 'knowledge' as incorrect. There is a flexibility and acceptance to say 'we do not know....yet'

Compare that to the inflexibility of religion, the belief that God created us and put your fingers in your ears if there is a suggestion as to where God came from or who created God. There is no flexibility to consider an alternative or change your mind as new evidence and findings develop. It is a conservative force.

 

[Triggaaar]

Do people who believe in god (and him creating the world and jesus n all that), not believe in dinosaurs?

I asked this question to the jehovah's witnesses that come a knocking, and they said they do believe in dinosaurs. The don't believe in evolution though, they believe that god created man on the 6th day (presumably dinosaurs a bit earlier, even though other land creatures were also created on the 6th day). But they usually say that his days are not the same as our days, or some such BS, to allow for the fact that the dinos had all gone. It's much like talking to the conspiracy theorists.

 

[Wilko]

I have the courage of my convictions. I must confess, I hadn't realised until now how much agnosticism annoys atheists but this thread is an eye-opener. I'm an agnostic and happy to admit it. I don't believe in an anthropomorphic deity but I don't rule out a force in the universe (cue Star Wars jokes) completely beyond our understanding that some interpret as God. And I'm perfectly happy and reconciled with that.

To play devils advocate, if we saw complete agnosticism as being bang in the middle of the see-saw, surely you must have a learning one way towards a god existing or not existing. Where for example would you put yourself on Dawkins 7 point scale (this could be a poll in fact).

 

[Uncle C]

I asked this question to the jehovah's witnesses that come a knocking, and they said they do believe in dinosaurs. The don't believe in evolution though, they believe that god created man on the 6th day (presumably dinosaurs a bit earlier). But they usually say that his days are not the same as our days, or some such BS, to allow for the fact that the dinos had all gone.

I have an open mind about God, but hate everything about the Church.

 

[Triggaaar]

To all intents and purposes it did though. One minute there was nothing, then a big bang and then a universe. Something came from nothing.

You're not feeling the energy.

 

[Pevenseagull]

“As a philosopher, if I were speaking to a purely philosophic audience I should say that I ought to describe myself as an Agnostic, because I do not think that there is a conclusive argument by which one can prove that there is not a God. On the other hand, if I am to convey the right impression to the ordinary man in the street I think that I ought to say that I am an Atheist, because, when I say that I cannot prove that there is not a God, I ought to add equally that I cannot prove that there are not the Homeric gods.”
― Bertrand Russell

#teamBR

 

[highflyer]

I have the courage of my convictions. I must confess, I hadn't realised until now how much agnosticism annoys atheists but this thread is an eye-opener. I'm an agnostic and happy to admit it. I don't believe in an anthropomorphic deity but I don't rule out a force in the universe (cue Star Wars jokes) completely beyond our understanding that some interpret as God. And I'm perfectly happy and reconciled with that.

More of an issue of definition then,. My atheism relates to a 'God' that can be defined and understood by humans, as that seems to be the focus of most theists
Why do you think people are annoyed? I'm really not annoyed by what others believe.

 

[Triggaaar]

I must confess, I hadn't realised until now how much agnosticism annoys atheists

It does? I hadn't realised I was annoyed

 

[Withdean11]

I asked this question to the jehovah's witnesses that come a knocking, and they said they do believe in dinosaurs. The don't believe in evolution though, they believe that god created man on the 6th day (presumably dinosaurs a bit earlier, even though other land creatures were also created on the 6th day). But they usually say that his days are not the same as our days, or some such BS, to allow for the fact that the dinos had all gone. It's much like talking to the conspiracy theorists.

I tend to just ask them (all religions) why they believe in God. I have not yet heard one reasonable answer and none of them have told me the truth of "my Mum and Dad told me to".

 

[Bold Seagull]

To all intents and purposes it did though. One minute there was nothing, then a big bang and then a universe. Something came from nothing.

Now, this is the bit where the religious world literally jumped upon the big bang and singularity theory, because here was a concept that could easily be pointed at as 'who put it there, or who made the big bang', only this was merely a break down of our physics or best model in general relativity and our initial understanding of quantum mechanics.

At the time of observing the known universe, seeing the back ground radiation, and working back toward providing evidence the universe began as a singularity, unfortunately the physics stopped there, general relativity beaks down completely with the singularity, so science didn't, and couldn't go back further. That doesn't mean there is no further back, or that there could be physics to explain how the singularity existing or came to be. We know space time breaks down at this level, but then at this level quantum mechanics starts to get very weird with 2 things existing in 2 different places at the same time because space time doesn't behave in the same way.

You say nothing, it isn't that there is nothing, there is just nothing to measure, we can only theorise. Could be that the universe does go through infinite expansion and collapses. We'll maybe find out one day, I don't think there is any reason to conclude some supernatural nudge occurred though just to fill the knowledge gap.

 

[Hungry Joe]

To play devils advocate, if we saw complete agnosticism as being bang in the middle of the see-saw, surely you must have a learning one way towards a god existing or not existing. Where for example would you put yourself on Dawkins 7 point scale (this could be a poll in fact).

View attachment 89998

Personally, in the rare moments I do think about this question these days for the aforementioned reasons, I vary between 6 and 5 depending on my mood. I tend to find absolutism off-putting at either end of the scale, with this and most other things.

 

[portlock seagull]

Upon death I'd love to find out god is real. I'd be so red-faced about all the things I've said (generally quite insulting) about the big guy. But would he care about the things I've said? If he is all powerful, and created everything, is he really so bloody insecure that he needs us all to praise him all the time? And is he going to punish me for eternity for, through no fault of my own, not believing in him? I wouldn't think so. Maybe he'd just give me a bunch of chores to do for a while.

I love the idea there’s ‘community service’ in heaven!

 

[Triggaaar]

I tend to just ask them (all religions) why they believe in God. I have not yet heard one reasonable answer and none of them have told me the truth of "my Mum and Dad told me to".

Well yeah, you've got unrealistic expectations if you're hoping anyone will have a good reason.

I offer these poor people a chance of salvation - to see the light and stop wasting their lives. They don't have to take it.

 

[ozzygull]

I am an atheist, I don’t care what others choose to believe as long as they don’t use it as an excuse to harm others.