[Music] Advice re Getting Paid for Gigs

[KZNSeagull]

I need some advice from the NSC font of knowledge please:
My youngest son has joined a band with his mates on their college music course. The band have a few songs on Spotify and have been doing local gigs for which they have been paid (not much, but at least something).
They have been offered a spot at a festival in the summer which is a 2 hour drive away but have been told that they will not be paid. Whilst this will be great for them in terms of exposure and experience, I would have thought that they should be getting paid at least their expenses.
Further details are sketchy at the moment - you know what it's like to get info out of teenagers!
Is this standard practice for festivals with young, unexposed bands? Should they do it without payment or not?

 

[jcdenton08]

I need some advice from the NSC font of knowledge please:
My youngest son has joined a band with his mates on their college music course. The band have a few songs on Spotify and have been doing local gigs for which they have been paid (not much, but at least something).
They have been offered a spot at a festival in the summer which is a 2 hour drive away but have been told that they will not be paid. Whilst this will be great for them in terms of exposure and experience, I would have thought that they should be getting paid at least their expenses.
Further details are sketchy at the moment - you know what it's like to get info out of teenagers!
Is this standard practice for festivals with young, unexposed bands? Should they do it without payment or not?

Perfectly normal.

“Hotdog and a handshake” gigs are for gaining experience, credits and exposure. Many gigging bands actually rely solely on merchandise sales (posters, t-shirts, CD’s) to make any sort of income.

College student bands are ten a penny, unless they get signed or achieve a significant grass roots fan base, they should expect to be paid in a pint or two at the end of the night for most jobs.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Perfectly normal.

“Hotdog and a handshake” gigs are for gaining experience, credits and exposure. Many gigging bands actually rely solely on merchandise sales (posters, t-shirts, CD’s) to make any sort of income.

College student bands are ten a penny, unless they get signed or achieve a significant grass roots fan base, they should expect to be paid in a pint or two at the end of the night for most jobs.

Righty ho, thanks very much!

 

[BBassic]

I did a festival once and that was unpaid. We did however get a camping spot in the artists area with an artists wristband which allowed access to the backstage places. That honestly was brilliant because after seeing a band we could duck out through the back and use the backstage 'tunnels' to get to the next stage before everyone else.

Did your son get offered this at least? I would have assumed so

EDIT: They must have because otherwise what are they doing with their gear? Unsafe to keep that in your tent in general camping.

 

[Brovion]

Hmm. Normally at a festival you at least get a token payment, £50 or something. Is it a free festival? A low-key free festival may not be able to pay acts, but any self-respecting one will.

EDIT: I've said 'Normally', but perhaps I should say 'in my experience'.

 

[Hamilton]

Let’s hear them then?

 

[KZNSeagull]

Let’s hear them then?

My son isn't on their recordings yet - he has only recently joined as the drummer.

 

[thejackal]

It's a tricky one and quite a hotly-debated topic amongst musos. Having been a gigging musician for 30 years of my life, I have lost count of the times I've been offered a slot for no money but 'exposure'. I did a few when I was young but it would have to be something quite spectacular (which I would never be offered now anyway) to tempt me.

 

[KZNSeagull]

I did a festival once and that was unpaid. We did however get a camping spot in the artists area with an artists wristband which allowed access to the backstage places. That honestly was brilliant because after seeing a band we could duck out through the back and use the backstage 'tunnels' to get to the next stage before everyone else.

Did your son get offered this at least? I would have assumed so

EDIT: They must have because otherwise what are they doing with their gear? Unsafe to keep that in your tent in general camping.

Thanks. I guess so, I need to sit him down tonight and go through it all with him. I don't even know what festival this is yet!

 

[KZNSeagull]

It's a tricky one and quite a hotly-debated topic amongst musos. Having been a gigging musician for 30 years of my life, I have lost count of the times I've been offered a slot for no money but 'exposure'. I did a few when I was young but it would have to be something quite spectacular (which I would never be offered now anyway) to tempt me.

View attachment 160737

This is it. I don't mind them doing 1 or 2 of these at decent events but I don't want them to get a reputation that they will work for nothing.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Not in the sector and I have support for anyone trying to put on music events, but i'm shocked that they're not even being offered the expenses to at least get there and back.

In my totally inexpert opinion, i'd go back and ask for expenses to be paid and make a decision on the basis of that.

 

[Affy]

I’ve gigged and performed both for free and for money. It really comes down to what you want. I know some musicians who refuse and demand the equity rates and get cross with anyone who doesn’t as it allows people to pay with “exposure”.

My current feeling is that I can’t pay the bills with “exposure” and too many “influencers” have expectations that skills/services/knowledge can be battered for no payment. I spent years studying music, taking grades, learning instruments. Why should someone give me nothing for the hard work.

But I am a miserable 40year old not an up and coming college drummer…

 

[WATFORD zero]

Always been a sad fact of life that lots of young bands don't get paid and will be expected to travel at their own expense to get to play for a decent crowd. There was even a period of 'pay to play' a few years back. It's shit but it's what happens

Same goes for festivals unless you are well up the bill.

 

[scooter1]

I've been a gigging musician for over 30 years, touring, pubs - the whole shebang.
I stopped doing 'free' gigs about a decade ago. For what i do now we don't need the exposure, so we drew a line under it.
We got asked to play Paddle Round the Pier a few years ago 'for exposure' and politely declined - they couldn't even offer us free parking, bearing in mind where the stage is.
The least anyone should expect is travel expenses(within reason) and sustenance(PD's)

 

[WATFORD zero]

I've been a gigging musician for over 30 years, touring, pubs - the whole shebang.
I stopped doing 'free' gigs about a decade ago. For what i do now we don't need the exposure, so we drew a line under it.
We got asked to play Paddle Round the Pier a few years ago 'for exposure' and politely declined - they couldn't even offer us free parking, bearing in mind where the stage is.
The least anyone should expect is travel expenses(within reason) and sustenance(PD's)

I think it's something everyone had to do when young and starting out. I did plenty of freebies early on but none in the last 35 years (although I've just about stopped completely in the last few years). Even the occasional charidee event pays expenses

 

[chickens]

A long time away from any form of music/gigging but it was absolutely standard practice for festivals to try and persuade you to play “for exposure”, which while I understand festival organisers have a budget, always seemed ethically dubious at best. Personally I’d be holding out for expenses, being fed and a drink or two, but I’m not idealistic, of college age and just wanting to get my music out there.

Can I just sound a word of warning about sounding too negative about the setup to your son. It’s more important that he feels supported than that one of you is ‘right’. Plus, if he’s a recently joined drummer, the rest of the band may not take too kindly to negative noises about a forthcoming gig.

 

[GT49er]

Not in the sector and I have support for anyone trying to put on music events, but i'm shocked that they're not even being offered the expenses to at least get there and back.

In my totally inexpert opinion, i'd go back and ask for expenses to be paid and make a decision on the basis of that.

The answer will come back, 'OK, forget it. We'll ask another of the dozens of bands that would love to have the gig.'

 

[Justice]

I will ask my daughter her friend is in a similar position and does a few festivals in the summer.

 

[KZNSeagull]

A long time away from any form of music/gigging but it was absolutely standard practice for festivals to try and persuade you to play “for exposure”, which while I understand festival organisers have a budget, always seemed ethically dubious at best. Personally I’d be holding out for expenses, being fed and a drink or two, but I’m not idealistic, of college age and just wanting to get my music out there.

Can I just sound a word of warning about sounding too negative about the setup to your son. It’s more important that he feels supported than that one of you is ‘right’. Plus, if he’s a recently joined drummer, the rest of the band may not take too kindly to negative noises about a forthcoming gig.

Yup, agreed. We have a good relationship anyway and we give him advice but make it clear that everything is his decision and we will support him no matter what he decides. I don't think that the band are arguing about it at all at the moment, more a case of sorting out logistics.
I will suggest that they politely enquire about expenses/food and drink as they have a long trip and see what the organisers say, then take it from there.
Thanks

 

[sydney]

I need some advice from the NSC font of knowledge please:
My youngest son has joined a band with his mates on their college music course. The band have a few songs on Spotify and have been doing local gigs for which they have been paid (not much, but at least something).
They have been offered a spot at a festival in the summer which is a 2 hour drive away but have been told that they will not be paid. Whilst this will be great for them in terms of exposure and experience, I would have thought that they should be getting paid at least their expenses.
Further details are sketchy at the moment - you know what it's like to get info out of teenagers!
Is this standard practice for festivals with young, unexposed bands? Should they do it without payment or not?

i would have thought at least a 50 quid bar tab each would be fair ....but ya gotta start somewhere.