[Music] Advice re Getting Paid for Gigs

[thejackal]

Always been a sad fact of life that lots of young bands don't get paid and will be expected to travel at their own expense to get to play for a decent crowd. There was even a period of 'pay to play' a few years back. It's shit but it's what happens

Same goes for festivals unless you are well up the bill.

All true. It's a sad fact that a fair amount of 'pay to play' still goes on, often at the highest levels of the business.

 

[TWOCHOICEStom]

In my experience at club nights/small festivals/support slots you're lucky if you get 2 free drinks let alone expenses.

The bigger the gig, the more chance, but you'd be surprised how big it gets before you get any cash.

It's not easy being in a band AT ALL.

 

[chickens]

The answer will come back, 'OK, forget it. We'll ask another of the dozens of bands that would love to have the gig.'

It’s really difficult, the band are absolutely being exploited, but if they say no to the “opportunity” the festival organisers will just find somebody else to exploit.

Supply and demand tells us that there’s a lot of people in bands wanting to grow a fan base and not endless opportunities to get out there in front of lots of people. The unequal power dynamic absolutely gives organisers the upper hand.

Decency suggests expenses and food/drink should be paid, though they often weren’t previously. I really do think that nobody should be being asked to contribute at their own expense if the event has an admission charge, and it’s unscrupulous of the organisers to be trying it on like this.

 

[Streetlight]

My son isn't on their recordings yet - he has only recently joined as the drummer.

Pretty good all things considered.

It's not all that uncommon for up and coming bands to be offered 'exposure' sets at festivals. It's not particularly viable for festivals to pay all bands given how many are normally on the set, but they normally throw in camping backstage for performers. From the bands perspective, it's probably a good place to network and build a bigger following, particularly if they have similarities to other bands on the bill that attendees will dig. Plus, good experience to play a festival early doors - might take a while till they play to that amount of people in their own headlining show.

Also, if they haven't already, BBC Introducing is a decent platform to get local airplay so worth looking into.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

If he doesn't get paid, how does he afford to get there?

 

[KZNSeagull]

Pretty good all things considered.

It's not all that uncommon for up and coming bands to be offered 'exposure' sets at festivals. It's not particularly viable for festivals to pay all bands given how many are normally on the set, but they normally throw in camping backstage for performers. From the bands perspective, it's probably a good place to network and build a bigger following, particularly if they have similarities to other bands on the bill that attendees will dig. Plus, good experience to play a festival early doors - might take a while till they play to that amount of people in their own headlining show.

Also, if they haven't already, BBC Introducing is a decent platform to get local airplay so worth looking into.

Thanks. They had one of their songs on BBC Introducing last year

 

[KZNSeagull]

If he doesn't get paid, how does he afford to get there?

They have a couple of paid gigs coming up so are using the money from that to help but otherwise it will come out of their own pockets.

 

[Wozza]

As an aside, I saw a music producer got paid around £100 - via PRS - when a DJ span one of his records in a backfield at Glastonbury last year.

(Only happens when a DJ bothers to file at setlist to PRS)

 

[zefarelly]

This is it. I don't mind them doing 1 or 2 of these at decent events but I don't want them to get a reputation that they will work for nothing.

Unless you’re higher up the ladder money is crap everywhere.
A minimum of a token payment to cover travel is a bare minimum. IMO £50 for example
Even if they ask and don't get. Its a fine line between getting shat on and never getting any gigs for being awkward.
A free Festival pass has value.
Last one I did was pretty much expenses only, but a great band weekend away, supporting Gong and saw some other good bands, and met Steve Davis.
The exposure thing is bullshit. Unless its a BIG festival. If it is, there should be money.

 

[Official Old Man]

As an aside, I saw a music producer got paid around £100 - via PRS - when a DJ span one of his records in a backfield at Glastonbury last year.

(Only happens when a DJ bothers to file at setlist to PRS)

Not sure this would be true. PRS don't count every playing of a song but rather a general avarage. Yes, radio stations send in play lists but if you think every shop with music has a licence (I have one) and every town hall has a licence for weddings etc, PRS sort of guess what is played. They would know YMCA gets spun at least 1000 times on a Saturday but guess that Little Arrows by Leapy Lea may be played once a week.
Back to the topic though. Check what time slot they are in. 10:00 in the morning with a crowd of 20, of which 19 are still asleep from the night before, isn't fun.

 

[Blues Guitarist]

If the band members are on a college music course, then the college should be able to advise them way better than NSC! I live in Austria and acheived my MA in music from the WaterBear college in Brighton. Go talk to them - most of the lecturers and tutors work deep in the music industry and know it inside out.

If the band's social media is up to date, then it looks like they're playing about 2 gigs a year since COVID, so I'd say any exposure is good news. If the social media is not up to date and they're playing more gigs - fix the socials!

Why are they making music? Is it for fun, do they want to make some pocket money or do they want to be full time musicians? Whatever their objectives, they need to build a following - which needs much more intensive social media and more gigs. Most musicians today ONLY make money from gigs and merch, but you only do that when you have built a following.

If I was young I might well play a festival without payment for the exposure. As I'm now an old fart, I might well play a festival without payment for the fun, for the buzz. But if you're playing for free for the exposure, then EXPLOIT it. The band should be all over social media, and be working with the real media to multiply whatever exposure would happen on the day. Develop relationships with local and music journalist, hand them shrink wrapped stories about the band and your music, get them invites to your events.

Does the band have a business plan? If yes - where does an unpaid festival fit in that plan. If not - why not?

Good luck!

 

[zefarelly]

They have a couple of paid gigs coming up so are using the money from that to help but otherwise it will come out of their own pockets.

Back in the 90’s we used to gig locally and save the money to fund touring while we were building a following and chasing a record deal.

If he doesn't get paid, how does he afford to get there?

The Arts don't fund themselves you know!

 

[The Clamp]

In most artistic fields you simply have to do the free/for expenses stuff. The potential rewards are monumental but you have to be prepared to put the hard work in. It was ever thus and in my opinion, quite right. When I was in bands and then acting, we did shed loads of free stuff. On the flipside, one year I got £18k for one advert. It's very much an extreme scale in terms of compensation.

However, If you still find yourself doing gigs for some sandwiches and flat beer after you're thirty, you've either been incredibly unlucky or you are a bit shit. Or you just love it, which is the best way.

 

[zefarelly]

As an aside, I saw a music producer got paid around £100 - via PRS - when a DJ span one of his records in a backfield at Glastonbury last year.

(Only happens when a DJ bothers to file at setlist to PRS)

I've been a PRS member for 30 years. . . only thing I got was a demand on my business for listening to music in the workplace. . . . About 10 years ago. A one line reply shut them up.

I've no idea how they do their calculations, seems like a protection racket run by tories. I think Spotify must be related. 0.0001p per play for the little guys and a few mill for the stones etc as long as they invite you to the annual Charliefest on a private tropical island at Christmas. . .

Cynical moi?

The industry has been f***ed and skewed for quite a while now. It's a paying hobby at best, I would not recommend persuing a career as a musician. Same for motorsport.

 

[The Clamp]

I've been a PRS member for 30 years. . . only thing I got was a demand on my business for listening to music in the workplace. . . . About 10 years ago. A one line reply shut them up.

I've no idea how they do their calculations, seems like a protection racket run by tories. I think Spotify must be related. 0.0001p per play for the little guys and a few mill for the stones etc as long as they invite you to the annual Charliefest on a private tropical island at Christmas. . .

Cynical moi?

The industry has been f***ed and skewed for quite a while now. It's a paying hobby at best, I would not recommend persuing a career as a musician. Same for motorsport.

FFS! Pretty soon I'll have to fall back on my Jet fighter training.

 

[zefarelly]

However, If you still find yourself doing gigs for some sandwiches and flat beer after you're thirty, you've either been incredibly unlucky or you are a bit shit. Or you just love it, which is the best way.

I'm not sure if I want to cry or come and punch you in the face. . . Neither actually . . . It covers most scenarios.

trends/fashion/timing. . . . . . The curse of many a very good band who never 'made it'

whilst plenty of shit bands did. Albeit briefly!

TotP is my bar, never got there. MTV a close 2nd?

 

[Easy 10]

I've been performing a Limahl tribute act since 2009, and can command up to £60 a night.

I don't do christenings though.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

I'm not sure if I want to cry or come and punch you in the face. . . Neither actually . . . It covers most scenarios.

trends/fashion/timing. . . . . . The curse of many a very good band who never 'made it'

whilst plenty of shit bands did. Albeit briefly!

TotP is my bar, never got there. MTV a close 2nd?

This just reminded me, that apparently (and I'm sure this must have happened to some people even if it turns out that this particular story isn't quite true) Chris Sievey, who later found fame wearing a fibreglass head as Frank Sidebottom, was supposed to appear on TotP but they happened to be on strike that week.
Bang went that music career, but a very different form of success came in the end.
I'm not sure what moral I'm expecting people to draw from this story.

 

[Weststander]

I've been a PRS member for 30 years. . . only thing I got was a demand on my business for listening to music in the workplace. . . . About 10 years ago. A one line reply shut them up.

I've no idea how they do their calculations, seems like a protection racket run by tories. I think Spotify must be related. 0.0001p per play for the little guys and a few mill for the stones etc as long as they invite you to the annual Charliefest on a private tropical island at Christmas. . .

Cynical moi?

The industry has been f***ed and skewed for quite a while now. It's a paying hobby at best, I would not recommend persuing a career as a musician. Same for motorsport.

Is there a level down from the top where it is still lucrative?

We’ve new neighbour’s, a guy in his mid 30’s who’s a founder member of a band with YouTube views up to 38 million per track, their weekend festivals start now, they tour Europe including huge football stadia, produced over ten albums.

He admits that after being skint in the early years whilst all his friends shot ahead in their careers, the table turned and they’re very well off.

I’d never heard of them (they’re young and its not my music genre).

 

[scooter1]

There is still money to be made in the music industry, at several levels. However being in a band and being successful in a band becomes a lifestyle choice. You can forget about being around for months, even years….. As mentioned before, there is little or no money in media sales, it’s all about maximising income from shows/touring. Bands I have worked with over the years have culled guest lists in order to put more bums on seats in arenas. Thats the bare bones of it. Ive worked in the music industry for the last 20 years, and I take my hat off to anybody who has designs in ‘making it’. I wonder what the percentage of musicians who achieve Uber success, correlates to footballers who make it to elite level?