A world without America

[Southover Street Seagull]

No, he is living in your country, and he depends upon the actions of you, not the opposite.

There were many Jewish landlords in Europe 60 years ago, and what was their destiny? Their neighbours sent them to the gas chambers and betrayed them.

If their neigbours were leading members of the Nazi party then yes that is true. But I don't think that is how it happened.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

The Torah (5 books inside the Tanach) is a juridical document, 600,000 men above the age of 20 (and their wives, children, total number of 3 million people) were witnessed the exodus from Egypt and witnessed the revelation in mount Horeb and witnessed the words of G-d when he spoke the Torah to them.

Jews believe in the book in the name of Tanach.

This message below is written in the intro of every Tanach book that soldiers of the IDF receive after they finish basic training:

B"H

Soldiers of the IDF

Handed over (this book) to you this book of books, the asset of the nation and her source of existence, the book which is the livestock note and an ownership document to our country and to the estate of our fathers.

This book gives us the right as a one nation to declare in front of a large crowd: "renew our days as of old" (Lamentations 5:21).

The nation of Israel, already in his first steps, started from Abraham – father of the nation, who called out in the name of a singular God - creator of the world - faced an idolatrous world which surrounded him, and although he was alone in his faith, like our sages of blessed memory have said: Abraham stood on one side and the whole world stood on the other side, he attached his faith with all his heart, with interested soul and without recoiling.

The divine revelation in Egypt, when the Holy One Blessed be He took the descendants of Abraham his chosen, out from the slavery furnace, while changing the laws of nature, was in order to bring them to the exalted position, high level and one-time in the history of mankind, as written: "For who is there of all flesh, that hath heard the voice of the living God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as we have, and lived" (Deuteronomy 5:23), when he gave his Torah – Torah of truth.

He gave his Torah of Hashem, a heritage to his nation, into the hand of his prophet Moses – his faithful servant.

This book of books which has been given to your hands, is the essence and the foundation of mankind's culture and the secret of the eternity of Israel in all generations.

Soldiers of the IDF, the carriers of the flag of freedom and the security of the nation, keep this Torah book of Hashem, learn it and fulfill the last will of Moses to Joshua "…that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the LORD your God, and observe to do all the words of this law" (Deuteronomy 31:12), and then we will be appropriated that the promise of God in his Torah will be valid: "for the LORD your God is He that goeth with you, to fight for you against your enemies, to save you" (Deuteronomy 20:4).

Major-General Gad Navon
Chief Rabbi of the IDF

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/7019/dsc01338vi5.jpg

Thankfully we in Britain don't take 3000 year old texts literally. Otherwise we would be in even more shit than we are now!
Buba do you believe that the World was made in seven days?

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

Oh and to get back on subject what a load of crap that video was.
How the hell can the Yanks say that they helped get the Falklands back? The ummed and aahhed for quite a while before thay backed Britain. How did they help us? They sold us loads of sidewinder missiles!

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Oh and to get back on subject what a load of crap that video was.
How the hell can the Yanks say that they helped get the Falklands back? The ummed and aahhed for quite a while before thay backed Britain. How did they help us? They sold us loads of sidewinder missiles!

It is amazing how long it takes the US to join a war unless they are to benefit, but then expect everyone to jump to their aid immediatly. I bet they were eyeing up a nice bit of interest on their money before committing. Shame that Blair was so keen to join forces with the Yanks.

 

[Buba]

If their neigbours were leading members of the Nazi party then yes that is true. But I don't think that is how it happened.

If England would have been conquered by Nazi Germany then the destiny of the Jews in England would not be different than their destiny in other countried that Nazi Germany conquered.

And I provided links in my former posts that prove that there is lots of anti-semitism in UK, therefore Jews are leaving, and the destiny of Jews is to live alone, in their country, and not in foreign countries.

Whenever Jews are living in the exile - they will suffer from anti-semitism.

Watch this video about anti-semitism in England


Watch another video in the middle of this page about anti-semitism in Golders Green

 

[Gully]

Buba, it isn't just Jews leaving the UK, we have had a fairly healthy level of migration for centuries.

We have also welcomed many different races who have arrived on our shores to seek sanctuary, including Jews fleeing the pogroms of the 30's, East African Asians in the 70's and Vietnamese boat people in the 80's.

In short, our country has benefitted greatly from those who have arrived, as have those to which British people have migrated.

 

[Buba]

Thankfully we in Britain don't take 3000 year old texts literally. Otherwise we would be in even more shit than we are now!
Buba do you believe that the World was made in seven days?

Yes but when your enemy will wish to take your country and to kill you and when they will open a war upon you, you will not sit like a sittiing duck but will destroy your enemies like you did when you killed (and you had all the right to do so) millions of Germans and when you destroyed German cities completely.

This text is our life and the instructions for the behavior of humans in this world. This text is our ownership document upon the land.

But of course that for you - all the nations in the world have a right to live in countries EXCEPT the Jews.

As I said before, it's a juridical document.

Imagine that you are a buisnessman who wish to make buisness with another man. Both of you and your lawyers are meeting and sign on a contract that in this day and in that hour you were witnessed to an agreement and here are the paragraphs of it.

If this buisnessman violates the contract then you will charge him at the court and when you will say to the judge that he violates the contract and when you will show the judge the contract that both of you signed, how would you feel if the judge will tell you: "Don't quote to me from this text!"?

When your great great grandfather gave you a property in legacy and you have the document that proves that you are the owner of that land - if there will pass 1000 years from now, how would you feel if some criminals will come and kick you out of your land by saying: "We don't believe in this 1000 years old text of yours"?

 

[Buba]

Buba, it isn't just Jews leaving the UK, we have had a fairly healthy level of migration for centuries.

We have also welcomed many different races who have arrived on our shores to seek sanctuary, including Jews fleeing the pogroms of the 30's, East African Asians in the 70's and Vietnamese boat people in the 80's.

In short, our country has benefitted greatly from those who have arrived, as have those to which British people have migrated.

I don't disagree with these words of yours. I have lot's of respect to Britian and to the British people, most of the nowadays anti-semitism now in Britian is Islamic/Arab one, and anyway, as you saw in my links that I provided - Jews are also leaving USA.

And again, I have many non Jews British friends that I made through the years and I respect them very much.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

Yes but when your enemy will wish to take your country and to kill you and when they will open a war upon you, you will not sit like a sittiing duck but will destroy your enemies like you did when you killed (and you had all the right to do so) millions of Germans and when you destroyed German cities completely.

This text is our life and the instructions for the behavior of humans in this world. This text is our ownership document upon the land.

But of course that for you - all the nations in the world have a right to live in countries EXCEPT the Jews.

As I said before, it's a juridical document.

Imagine that you are a buisnessman who wish to make buisness with another man. Both of you and your lawyers are meeting and sign on a contract that in this day and in that hour you were witnessed to an agreement and here are the paragraphs of it.

If this buisnessman violates the contract then you will charge him at the court and when you will say to the judge that he violates the contract and when you will show the judge the contract that both of you signed, how would you feel if the judge will tell you: "Don't quote to me from this text!"?

When your great great grandfather gave you a property in legacy and you have the document that proves that you are the owner of that land - if there will pass 1000 years from now, how would you feel if some criminals will come and kick you out of your land by saying: "We don't believe in this 1000 years old text of yours"?

There is no point arguing with you about this, we obviously come from opposing views on religion and ancient texts. I have my views and you have yours. My view is that I find it hard to beleive a document that was written thousands of years ago and has had hundreds of people add and take parts away from it. And then it is passed on as fact!
I'm off to watch Champions League football.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Whenever Jews are living in the exile - they will suffer from anti-semitism.

Watch this video about anti-semitism in England

All Jewish people?

There is obviously no reasoning with you. You come across as a type of person, along with many others, who, with their beliefs, are directly responsible for the ongoing violence that scars Israel AND Palestine.

 

[Gully]

BoF, I fear that you have just lit the blue touch paper!

 

[Barrel of Fun]

BoF, I fear that you have just lit the blue touch paper!

I fear that I have too. :gulp:

I stand by my thoughts though, even if they are not that thought out...er....thoroughly.

 

[Gully]

The thing was, I always thought that Judaism was a religion, just like Christianity, Hinduism and Islam, etc, etc...never considered it to be a nationality.

 

[Buba]

My view is that I find it hard to beleive a document that was written thousands of years ago and has had hundreds of people add and take parts away from it. And then it is passed on as fact!
I'm off to watch Champions League football.

You are talking about the bible of the gentiles.

The Torah (and the other books in the Tanach) were never eidted, nor changed, nor added.

There are examples how the gentiles changed and distort things in the Tanach so it will suit them. Examples like the sentence of prophet Isiah who said that "the young girl is preganat" and they changed it to "the young virgin is pregnant" etc etc.

You must understand one thing: The Tanach is written in HEBREW, in Hebrew: words, objects and speaking have the same meaning. G-d spoke the Torah to the nation of Israel. You can't understand the Torah and the other books in the Tanach if you translate them to another language, let alone if you distort it and change it.

The name Babylon is the English translation of the Hebrew word: Bavel and the reason why it's called Bavel is not because they built the tower in Babylon but because G-d confused their language and the Hebrew word: Bavel is coming from the Hebrew word: Levalbel, which means to confuse.

The descendants of Noach who built the tower spoke in the Hebrew language, the language that G-d created the world with, this is olso the language that G-d spoke to Adam and Eve.

Wikipeida says that Eber refused to take part in the building of this tower so his language wasn't confused while the others were confused and all the other languages were developped from that moment in which G-d confused the Hebrew language (Eber):

Eber, the great-grandson of Shem, refused to help with the building of the Tower of Babel, so his language was not confused when it fell. He and his family alone retained the original human language, called lingua humana in Latin or Gortighern. After this, the language was called Hebrew, named after Eber.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eber

Eber was the grandfather of Abraham who spoke Hebrew too. This is why it's called Hebrew.

And anyway, you are a gentile, you are a descendant of Noach and you should follow the 7 laws that G-d gave to Noach and his family when they got out of the ark.

Noachides don't own a Torah book.

 

[Buba]

All Jewish people?

There is obviously no reasoning with you. You come across as a type of person, along with many others, who, with their beliefs, are directly responsible for the ongoing violence that scars Israel AND Palestine.

Mate, both you and me know very well that the anti-semitism in UK didn't start with the "Israel-Palestine conflict", it started long time ago, with all the ancient blood libels and the usuall well known British anti-semitism rhetoric:

Sam Silvester (his family name isn't a Jewish one but the migration clerk in England gave this name to his great-grandfather when he arrived to England because his original family name was something like Schivartiarshtein) is a well known Jewish lawyer who represented the Beatles and Paul Mcartney. He is living in Israel in the last 11 years. He gave an interview to Yuval Heiman in the Israeli Maariv newspaper at 15.12.06, here is a paragraph in which he talks about the anti-semitism in England:

Sam and Carol Silvester made Aliya to Israel 11 years ago and settled down in Ein Kerem after he got his benefit (pension). During 30 years before they did Aliya they had a flat in Netanya and they were staying in this flat at least 3 times a year. They always wanted to settle down in Israel, the only question was when and how to do it. They have 3 children, all of them are religious, 2 of them are living in Israel. Their son, Gideon is a Rabbi in Jerusalem. "Even after 8 generations in England I didn't feel completely at home", he is telling, "I don't even think that someone expected that I would feel completely at home. The English anti-semitism is very polite that you don't feel the knife penetrates untill you see blood on the floor."

Q: Do you have an example?

A: "I'll give you a magnificent example. A client has come to see me and told me that he always wanted a smart Jewish lawyer. But the meaning of the word 'smart' was in fact 'cunning', and the meaning of the word 'Jewish' was in fact 'a bastard'. Do you understand? It's all very polite, everything is very lovely. In the first 2 years of mine in West Minister, I had to tell my class mates that I didn't kill Jesus, that I wasn't there and that it's not my fault."

His first acquaintance with the horrors of the world was at the age of 12 in a London cinema, there he saw the terror of the holocaust. A year later he saw how the British mandate sending back to Germany ships of Maapilim which arrived to the shores of Israel. In the time that he told about it, the tears strangled his throat: "When I saw my soldiers and my sailors", he said in great sadness, "I couldn't believe. I couldn't believe that a human being can do such thing after what the Jews been through in the holocaust. I was in deep shock."

"I feel that all that have happened in Israel needed to be my story. The 2000 years that I was living in the exile are the most worst waste of time. I'm an old fashioned Zionist. I know it's not fashion anymore in a post Zionist world, there are still couple of people that believe in devotion that there needs to be a Jewish state in this small piece of land, in such a big world. The fact that all the world is hostile to us is a farce. It's ridiculous. In the time of the Intifada, when the most of our haters in Europe spoke against Israel, I found a wonderful solution. All that we had to do is telling the French, the British and the other Europeans that we are coming back. You can describe to yourself how they would have react."

Later on he was asked: "Where is better, here or in England?"

A: "Here is much better, with no doubt. If I want to eat kosher, I have where to eat. I love very much Jews and Judaism. I come from a wonderful nation with a great philosophy."

"When I talk with people in England, when I visit there and they ask me about Israel, I always direct them to "Alice in wonderland" of Luis Carol. I ask them to tell me what their opinion about Israel, I'm taking out the name 'Israel' and replace it with 'England'. And then the story sounds like this: England is being bombed from France with 500 missiles each day, how much time do the English will relate to it in patient? Everyday, French terrorists are entering England and they bomb themselves in busses. What England supposed to do? And they answer right away: "We will make laws against it, we won't suffer it." It's amazing how much fast they change when I do it."

Q: Why do (non Jews in general) hate us so much?

A: "It doesn't matter if you are a secular or religious. The Jews brought to the world the concept of God and of good and of bad. The world is trying to keep a certain standard. When it fails he can't kick God because he can't see him, so he kicks his representative. This is what Prof. Stainer wrote in one of his books."

Pictures of the paragraph:
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/6233/dsc013114ph.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/1010/dsc013135lo.jpg

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Sorry, I was making seperate points.

If we are going to generalise, by cherry picking individual cases, then let us use my friend and landlords family. They are Jewish and have resided in England since the early 1600s. Not the actions of a family that 'face anti-semitism' regularly.

 

[Yoda]

Ancient Egyptian texts call the entire levantine coastal area R-t-n-u (conventionally Retenu), which stretched along the Mediterranean coast in between modern Egypt and Turkey. It subdivided into three regions. Retenu's southern region (called Djahy) approximates modern Israel with the Palestinian territories, the central region Lebanon, and the northern region (called Amurru) the Syrian coast as far north as the Orontes River near Turkey.

During the Israelite Period (or Iron Age), the Kingdom of Israel of the United Monarchy may have reigned from Jerusalem over an area approximating modern Israel with the Palestinian Territories but extending farther westward and northward to cover much (but not all) of the greater Land of Israel, although archaeological evidence for this period is very rare and disputed. After the "split", the southern part became the city state of the Kingdom of Judah, centred on Jerusalem, and the northern part the larger, more powerful and more prosperous, but less stable Kingdom of Israel.

The term "Palestine" derives from the word Philistine, the name of a non-Semitic ethnic group, originating from Southern Greece,closely related to early Mycenaean civilization. They inhabited a smaller area on the southern coast, called Philistia, whose borders approximate the modern Gaza Strip. Philistia encompassed the five cities of Gaza, Ashkelon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath. The Egyptian texts of the temple at Medinet Habu, record a people called the P-r-s-t (conventionally Peleset), one of the Sea Peoples who invaded Egypt in Ramesses III's reign. This is considered very likely to be a reference to the Philistines. The Hebrew name Peleshet, usually translated as Philistia in English, is used in the Bible to denote their southern coastal region. The Assyrian emperor Sargon II called it the Palashtu in his Annals. The last Philistine cities were destroyed in ca. 604 BCE by Nebuchadnezzar II, King of Babylon, who exiled the remaining inhabitants to Mesopotamia. Thus ended the Philistines political history.

Both have ancient texts claiming the land to be theirs.

 

[Buba]

Sorry, I was making seperate points.

If we are going to generalise, by cherry picking individual cases, then let us use my friend and landlords family. They are Jewish and have resided in England since the early 1600s. Not the actions of a family that 'face anti-semitism' regularly.

My sister is married to a Jew from England who's family is living in England.

 

[seagullsslimjim]

load of biblical twaddle - holy wars have killed more than any others - religion is fairy tales to keep peeps on the correct track.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

My sister is married to a Jew from England who's family is living in England.

One might call him an Englishman!??