A Very Real Problem: Lack of Sports Facilities in Brighton & Hove

[The Large One]

Black Rock or the King Alfred would be an excellent choice for a new leisure centre, one that would bring in people from all over Sussex bringing many £££.

Unfortunately these visitors that bring many £££ would need to drive and that is not feasible due to the Councils short sightedness and obsession with making it difficult or near impossible to drive in our city. We simply do not welcome or encourage visitors anymore and this can only have a long term negative effect on our city.

The i360 IMO is a waste, will never make money and will probably be taken down within 10 years because of the deficit it will be running.

Agree that a new leisure/sports facility is needed, and the King Alfred or Black Rock would be good spots, but to say that the city doesn't welcome or encourage visitors is demonstrably nonsense.

Similarly, it's neither 'difficult' nor 'near impossible' to drive around the city. It's a piece of piss to drive to King Alfred or Black Rock. Any difficulties are usually down to the sheer volume of traffic, and the seafront road hasn't been narrowed, nor capacity reduced in recent years.

 

[Superphil]

Marina , has a Carpark big enough and they did look at putting a 6000 capacity indoor rink on that site before .

Do you not think that current council parking agendas (not just Green either) would not accept that as suitable?

 

[The Large One]

Do you not think that current council parking agendas (not just Green either) would not accept that as suitable?

Black Rock ought to be a good site. I don't think parking is strictly the problem - space can be found. I think it's traffic volume to and from the Black Rock site that has them most concerned - there's only one road in and out of that site (Madeira Drive).

Similarly, the current public transport system serves Black Rock much better than, say, King Alfred.

 

[Prettyboyshaw]

I know a very high up planning QC and he has nothing good to say about B&H Council. Always have been and always will be very difficult to deal with and takes so long for anything to go through that the economy changes or developers lose interest.

City is crying out for several leisure centers ice rink etc but yet they want a 360 tower that has half its view out to see and the other half looking at the tops of flats hotels and houses yawwwnnn. The Brighton Center, Black Rock, Odean Building all have been planned developments for years and nothing happens. Saltdean Lido another example left to rot should have been a leisure center.

We would have been very lucky to have the Frank Gehry project but instead the King Alfred is left to be an abloute shit hole.

B&H Council need to change their ways or we will be left behind many other cities.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I know a very high up planning QC and he has nothing good to say about B&H Council. Always have been and always will be very difficult to deal with and takes so long for anything to go through that the economy changes or developers lose interest.

City is crying out for several leisure centers ice rink etc but yet they want a 360 tower that has half its view out to see and the other half looking at the tops of flats hotels and houses yawwwnnn. The Brighton Center, Black Rock, Odean Building all have been planned developments for years and nothing happens. Saltdean Lido another example left to rot should have been a leisure center.

We would have been very lucky to have the Frank Gehry project but instead the King Alfred is left to be an abloute shit hole.

B&H Council need to change their ways or we will be left behind many other cities.

I agree with you to an extent but being fair, Saltdean Lido was, and still effectively is, privately owned. Nothing to do with the council at all.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Would this public money surely not be better spent on a decent leisure centre with proper ice rink etc?

I agree it would but you will never ever get a new leisure centre in B&H in my life-time. This rears its head every 5 years or so, money is wasted on tendering for the job, design etc and time and time again nothing gets built. The Tory council cost us tax-payers over a million or two when they canned the Gehry proposal. I hate them but this was dispicable especially when there was a recession starting. And I can go back to the early 80s with this, plan after plan, idea after idea but nothing gets done. A great idea but you are utterly wasting your time.

 

[Prettyboyshaw]

Yes but its a prime site for the council to purchase on the cheap and put a decent community facility. The city has the decrepit Prince Regent and KA yet Crawley has K2, Horsham has Pavillions and Burgess Hill the Triangle.

The Lido issue may be different but I think the other points about or piss poor council stand.

 

[The Large One]

I agree with you to an extent but being fair, Saltdean Lido was, and still effectively is, privately owned. Nothing to do with the council at all.

It's council-owned, and they offer the lease.

http://present.brighton-hove.gov.uk/ieDecisionDetails.aspx?AIId=35593

Regarding Prettyboyshaw's contention that a leisure centre should be built on the site of Saltdean Lido - personally, I disagree - I'd say it's too far out of Brighton & Hove.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I agree it would but you will never ever get a new leisure centre in B&H in my life-time. This rears its head every 5 years or so, money is wasted on tendering for the job, design etc and time and time again nothing gets built. The Tory council cost us tax-payers over a million or two when they canned the Gehry proposal. I hate them but this was dispicable especially when there was a recession starting. And I can go back to the early 80s with this, plan after plan, idea after idea but nothing gets done. A great idea but you are utterly wasting your time.

I know you hate the Tories but I'm pretty sure the development was canned because the funding couldn't be found rather than any political party just scrapping it ?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I know a very high up planning QC and he has nothing good to say about B&H Council. Always have been and always will be very difficult to deal with and takes so long for anything to go through that the economy changes or developers lose interest.

City is crying out for several leisure centers ice rink etc but yet they want a 360 tower that has half its view out to see and the other half looking at the tops of flats hotels and houses yawwwnnn. The Brighton Center, Black Rock, Odean Building all have been planned developments for years and nothing happens. Saltdean Lido another example left to rot should have been a leisure center.

We would have been very lucky to have the Frank Gehry project but instead the King Alfred is left to be an abloute shit hole.

B&H Council need to change their ways or we will be left behind many other cities.

Totally agree with this. The city has a bad rep with architects and builders; a place where you cannot build. I find it crazy that the Regency Society have so much sway in the city when they have so few members. I do not agree with your word lucky. Lucky is a total understatement. The gods looked down on Brighton the day Gehry turned up. And one element of the deal was they would employ local builders and recruit from the local colleges for the build. All of this when there was a recession. The cost to Brighton, and it's youth, was immense when the Tories canned the idea. I will never ever forgive them for this.

 

[The Large One]

Yes but its a prime site for the council to purchase on the cheap and put a decent community facility. The city has the decrepit Prince Regent and KA yet Crawley has K2, Horsham has Pavillions and Burgess Hill the Triangle.

The Lido issue may be different but I think the other points about or piss poor council stand.

The area around the station could have had a new leisure facility for instance, but I think recent B&H councils have been prioritising hotels and housing; both of which the city was - and still is - short of.

What there isn't is a joined-up collective thinking regarding sports and leisure facilities, and that dates back to SS Brighton closing in the 1960s. It was all the Albion could do to get back to Withdean...

 

[Westdene Seagull]

It's council-owned, and they offer the lease.

http://present.brighton-hove.gov.uk/ieDecisionDetails.aspx?AIId=35593

Regarding Prettyboyshaw's contention that a leisure centre should be built on the site of Saltdean Lido - personally, I disagree - I'd say it's too far out of Brighton & Hove.

Fair enough - I thought I'd read about a battle between the current owners and a consortium of locals trying to take control. It was obviously about the leasehold rather than out and out ownership. It's listed anyway isn't it ? That would make development difficult even if it were close enough to B&H.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I know you hate the Tories but I'm pretty sure the development was canned because the funding couldn't be found rather than any political party just scrapping it ?

No. The original funding from Holland (I think) fell through due to the credit crunch I agree. But Karis asked for an extension to obtain funding from another source (some Arab/Saudi firm I think) but instead of allowing them a bit longer they cynically triggered a clause which terminated the contract. They never wanted the building in opposition and when they got back in power they did their best to stop it...wasting millions of our money and costing a lot of jobs in the process. We will never know if the Arab deal would have come to fruition; but what we do know is that Karis were never given a chance.

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

Similarly, the current public transport system serves Black Rock much better than, say, King Alfred.

possibly, however, king alfred is definitely walkable from hove station as well as all the buses that serve central hove. I used to live at the bottom of st. aubyns (pretty much opposite the KA) and felt very well served by public transport.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I know you hate the Tories

Whatever gave you this idea?

 

[Bold Seagull]

I'm not usually one to defend any council but I thought the 25% social housing requirement was a government rule ? Regardless, the rumours of under the table deals being done between the developers and some councillors probably helped kill the deal as much as the social housing and nimbies.

It was part of the National Policy Framework that councils set targets for affordable housing. Within each authority's Local Plan they would have a policy for the requirement which would form part of a Section 106 agreement that can range from social housing to contribution to highways, kids parks etc. typically 25% when a certain threshold was reached. This might vary from council to council. A Section 106 can be negotiated within a Local Plan policy and other benefits taken into consideration.

'Rent-a-mob', 'brown paper bags' - I'm surprised Peter James hasn't had Roy Grace investigating a fictional allegory of what when on during the whole King Alfred fiasco.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Whatever gave you this idea?

I don't think you've ever mentioned it so it must have been gut feeling

 

[symyjym]

This is the King Alfred site at the moment:



This is the space needed for a 50m pool with diving, a childrens pool, and full sized ice rink:



This is a video



This is the website

http://kingalfredarena.com/siteview.html

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.

The King Alfred will just become a development of 450 residential units with a token gesture 25m pool.

 

[Prettyboyshaw]

I think there should be several in the City our size so its one place. Also, its an area that could do with a bit of development and money being spent.

B&H Council will drag their heals on everything except low cost flats. Just because there is a housing shortage its no good just stuffing more people in without the services and facilities for the existing residents plus it won't attract more revenue or visitors. If I came to Brighton with a family I would struggle for things to do on a weeks holiday (well in Sussex as a whole Drussillas whoopee!).

i360 and our major project for the next 10-15 years, great thanks for that

 

[CheeseRolls]

possibly, however, king alfred is definitely walkable from hove station as well as all the buses that serve central hove. I used to live at the bottom of st. aubyns (pretty much opposite the KA) and felt very well served by public transport.

Have you ever tried to use public transport between the West Pier and King Alfred though ? Not a single bus service running along the seafront, which is a little bizarre.