A Sobering article for NSC Bikers and Motorists

[METALMICKY]

When I first saw this I instantly blamed the bike rider for travelling too fast. Take away the speed, take away the risk.

However, in this instance, the car driver did not see the bike, this has been admitted. Even on what appears to be a long, straight approach road on a clear day, the bike was not seen until too late. Fact.

Therefore, surely the question we should asking and which would be of more benefit to future road safety, is why the bike was not seen. If we know the reasons we can come up with solutions. Here are the possible reasons the bike wasn't seen:

1. It's dark colours blended with the surroundings. The speed of the bike maybe exacerbated this.
2. The car driver got distracted so didn't look properly
3. The car driver's mind was subconsciously looking for approaching cars only so failed to do a full sweep of the approach. Complacency?
4. The car driver's sight is not 100%
5. The bike was caught in some kind of blind spot, perhaps behind the car's windscreen side stanchion.

IMO there are easy, cheap things that can be implemented to address some of the above. For example, blaring bike headlights that can't be switched off, banning black leathers in favour of fluorescent orange ones -may look uncool but may save lives, improved designs for car windscreens etc

Bottom line, if car had seen bike, car would have waited.

Point no.5 is very relevant in relation to modern car design. With a new family I recently had to purchase a Zafira which whilst ticking so many practicality boxes has a really poor windscreen pillar. However, this seems to be a problem with lots of modern cars and not just people carriers.

 

[Bermondseygull]

As a motorcyclist by choice, and an industry professional, I have the say that the blame lies fairly and squarely with the biker. Too fast, too casual, and happens far too often. The people left behind are those who have to live with the consequences, his family and very importantly the driver. My sympathies lie with them.

On the other hand, there are people who seem to revel in being accusatory, holier than thou, and 'I am a considerably better rowd user than yow'.

You rightly point out that the biker was riding like an idiot, fair point, but carried on to repeat not once, twice but three times at least. You also state that the world is a better place without the biker _ Well done you, really, well done. I bet the parents really appreciate their efforts to enlighten road users and improve road safety have had such a positive effect.

Your dislike of bikers shines through, what, have they got bigger balls than you? They do reckless things while you push your hoe around your allotment in Cornwall? They actually get out and push themselves to AN edge, whilst you sit waiting for the phone to ring for a bit of work?

The biker paid the ultimate price, his parents try to help others to avoid a repeat, all you can do is mock. Shame

That's me told

Spot on really, people can debate the physics of motorbike stopping distances etc but the truth is that bikes are inherently dangerous vehicles and going that fast on one you're taking your life into your own hands. Equally, plenty of times car drivers will not give more than a brief glance when pulling out at a T junction and end up with a bike in the door.

I work in a major trauma centre and half the patient I see every day are motorcyclists. The state some of them come in is dreadful and even if they survive a lot of them will never get full function back. At that stage it doesn't matter who's to blame - it's just a tragedy

 

[drew]

Point no.5 is very relevant in relation to modern car design. With a new family I recently had to purchase a Zafira which whilst ticking so many practicality boxes has a really poor windscreen pillar. However, this seems to be a problem with lots of modern cars and not just people carriers.

Or, the driver was looking up the road, saw the car was far enough away for him to safely turn into the side road and began to pull out. Once he started to pull across the road, his attention would more likely be drawn to the road he is turning into. At the same point the bike is overtaking the car and is beyond the point where he can safely stop.

 

[METALMICKY]

Or, the driver was looking up the road, saw the car was far enough away for him to safely turn into the side road and began to pull out. Once he started to pull across the road, his attention would more likely be drawn to the road he is turning into. At the same point the bike is overtaking the car and is beyond the point where he can safely stop.

Please read carefully what I said. I was not offering an explanation of the critical factors in this incident. I was simply picking up on some valid points made by a previous poster on potential and easily rectifiable causes of RTAs.

 

[jfs]

How can it ever be safe to drive at 150 mph on a public road? Genuine question.

Even on a straight road with no one about, at that speed if anything unexpected happened (even a bad road surface) you'd be in trouble.

I just can't understand that statement.

Well, if you get a clear road then A27, A24, A23, many opportunities to get up to speed then back down again for any upcoming hazards. Those roads are no different to a German autobahn really.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

With regard to your point on headlights I have a new bike (Triumph) and the headlights ARE on all the time. There is no off switch. I'm not sure if this applies to all new bikes.

As bikes with this feature become more common, it will be interesting to see if the number of accidents caused by failing to spot the motorbike falls and whether this will save lives.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

We used to be the guys with headlights on in daylight. A friends father once said to me,' You guys just have your light on to draw attention to yourselves', no shit Sherlock!

Unfortunately the EU has taken our visibility advantage away, all cars now have running lights. Thanks for nothing Brussels!

what a bizzare thing to say, cars having their lights on doesnt make a bike with lights on any less visible.

Does on a motorway in the rear view mirror,especially in the dark,bike can easily be lost,not for those that look properly though,so perhaps you have a point,still one has to cater for all levels of ability out there.....

Would the car having headlights on in this incident have made it more obvious to the biker as he may have spotted it earlier or anticipated it turning and slowed down as a result?

It could benefit bikers being able to spot other road users as hazards earlier and adjust rather than just thinking about this from the perspective of the car driver

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Well, if you get a clear road then A27, A24, A23, many opportunities to get up to speed then back down again for any upcoming hazards. Those roads are no different to a German autobahn really.

And if a wild animal ran out infront of you from the side of the road giving you no time to react and a collision was unavoidable, then what?
- Its not always what the motorist does thats the cause but the unexpected.

I knew someone killed in a bike in a crash who was a biker, he was under the speed limit and someone pulled out in fron tof him from a junction giving him no time to react and no where to go. He was killed instantly, and when examined, he didn't have a mark or bruise on his body. The cause of death was the way he landed on his backside and the impact of hitting the ground caused his spine up into his brain. There is no guarentee of surviving a lowish speed accident for a biker so to think that you would be fine if something happened at higher speed is ridiculous.

Absolutely no need to go that fast on UK roads.

 

[Garage_Doors]

As bikes with this feature become more common, it will be interesting to see if the number of accidents caused by failing to spot the motorbike falls and whether this will save lives.

Its been common for all UK bikes to have permanent light ons, ie no off switch on all bikes for the last 10 years.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

We used to be the guys with headlights on in daylight. A friends father once said to me,' You guys just have your light on to draw attention to yourselves', no shit Sherlock!

Unfortunately the EU has taken our visibility advantage away, all cars now have running lights. Thanks for nothing Brussels!

what a bizzare thing to say, cars having their lights on doesnt make a bike with lights on any less visible.

Its been common for all UK bikes to have permanent light ons, ie no off switch on all bikes for the last 10 years.

Didn't realise that, i'm sure i still see quite a few without but maybe they are the rare exception rather than the rule and haven't really registered that the majority do (or maybe they don't show up that well in daytime, in which case maybe a different colour may help)

Has there been any pattern evidence in terms of accident numbers dropping as a result of this?

 

[drew]

Please read carefully what I said. I was not offering an explanation of the critical factors in this incident. I was simply picking up on some valid points made by a previous poster on potential and easily rectifiable causes of RTAs.

Don't panic, I wasn't disagreeing with what you said just adding another possibility.

 

[dazzer6666]

Wow. Quite a lot of insensitive and unnecessary vitriol on this page. Someone has died FFS.
-motorcyclist was going way too fast
-car driver turned across traffic, but in his defence may not have seen him until very (too) late (windscreen pillar mentioned earlier may have been a factor, but so was the inappropriate speed of the bike, other traffic etc). Does appear from the clip he stops, or tries to stop, mid-turn
-anyone who does 150mph on any UK road is patently a danger to themselves, and others

Sympathy to the biker's family, and to the car driver who has to live with this which could easily have been avoided.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

As drivers we all make a decision as to whether it is safe to make a turn.
The biker was going over 50% faster than the legal speed limit.Decision made the car goes to make a turn and the rest we have seen.
If the biker was doing 60mph more than likely the accident would not have happened.The bikers mother and the motorist have to live with what happened.Speed does indeed kill.

Pretty much this,although i like to call bikers "fast movers" and as a professional HGV driver i have to be aware even if all else is calm of fast movers they can appear from nowhere in an instant.

 

[jakarta]

Wow. Quite a lot of insensitive and unnecessary vitriol on this page. Someone has died FFS.
-motorcyclist was going way too fast
-car driver turned across traffic, but in his defence may not have seen him until very (too) late (windscreen pillar mentioned earlier may have been a factor, but so was the inappropriate speed of the bike, other traffic etc). Does appear from the clip he stops, or tries to stop, mid-turn
-anyone who does 150mph on any UK road is patently a danger to themselves, and others

Sympathy to the biker's family, and to the car driver who has to live with this which could easily have been avoided.

Agree entirely with this post as a 33 years and counting Biker.

I have been a naughty boy on occasion and regularly topped 125MPH on public roads when I lived up in Cheshire but it was usually around 5 to 6AM at a weekend on a Snowdonian / Peak District / Lake District empty A Road where I could see for miles and if I made a mistake it would only be me that was going to suffer (apart from the odd stray sheep I would encounter!).

Nevertheless I ALWAYS slowed down for junctions just in case a Farmer was making an early start and still do nowadays in GOSBTS.

In regards to headlights - I always have mine on these days but totally disregard this when it comes to car drivers, I have been pulled out on so many times even with them on it is not true.

Despite everything, riding motorcycles fast is still by far the most enjoyable thing you can do without a member of the opposite sex....

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

Think the only real way that fatalities will reduce is with continuous education and perhaps not just getting people to pass a test but to actually teach them to drive properly.

I have just done my driver CPC and have to fit in another 35 hours over the next 5 years,it never ends,along with all my other training.

Knowledge,Skill and Attitude........it's more often than not the attitude that kills.

Incidents will always happen,but perhaps by more stringent testing the numbers will fall drastically..