A Sobering article for NSC Bikers and Motorists

[Nibble]

As a motorcyclist by choice, and an industry professional, I have the say that the blame lies fairly and squarely with the biker. Too fast, too casual, and happens far too often. The people left behind are those who have to live with the consequences, his family and very importantly the driver. My sympathies lie with them.

On the other hand, there are people who seem to revel in being accusatory, holier than thou, and 'I am a considerably better rowd user than yow'.

You rightly point out that the biker was riding like an idiot, fair point, but carried on to repeat not once, twice but three times at least. You also state that the world is a better place without the biker _ Well done you, really, well done. I bet the parents really appreciate their efforts to enlighten road users and improve road safety have had such a positive effect.

Your dislike of bikers shines through, what, have they got bigger balls than you? They do reckless things while you push your hoe around your allotment in Cornwall? They actually get out and push themselves to AN edge, whilst you sit waiting for the phone to ring for a bit of work?

The biker paid the ultimate price, his parents try to help others to avoid a repeat, all you can do is mock. Shame

That's me told

 

[jfs]

My comment below...



...received a Thumbs Down from the person who posted...



For me, that tends to vindicate my view.

Hi, I gave a thumbs down because I disagreed with your comments - I thought that was how it worked! Feel free to give the thumbs down to any of my posts - I won't burst into tears.

 

[wellquickwoody]

That's me told

Another 'look at me, I'm a knob' comment. Enjoy your solitude in Cornwall.

 

[Driver8]

I have always wondered if more should be done to make motorbikes more visible to other road users and hopefully this will mean they have a greater chance of being spotted earlier and accidents can be avoided. A few years ago i went to Australia and when travelling through the mountains there, you had to have your headlights on at all times when driving, regardless of the weather or lighting conditions. Would legislating so that motorbikes (and maybe all vehicles including cars too) should always have their headlights on when in use increase visibility and help to save lives?

The car driver was at fault here, even when maneuvering he could have and maybe should have looked up again to make sure the road was still clear of traffic in the lane he was crossing and as he wasn't moving that fast, he would have been able to stop and leave room for the bike to pass. (This reminds me of the supercar crash in London that was on here a while ago but with a far more tragic outcome)

Because there is a slow sign on the road, how many drivers actually slow down, especially when they would be travelling in a straight line and not needing to slow to make a maneuver. I doubt any car drivers slow so why should everyone expect a biker to slow?

The sad fact is that people don't pay much attention at junctions, the number of times i have been travelling around a roundabout in a car and someone has pulled out in front of me and almost collided with me because they had only looked to their right and not thought that there may be a vehicle heading around that started from opposite them.

Cars offer a lot of crash protection nowadays and has this lead to people subconsiously thinking that they don't have to be so thorough in their observations because if they were to crash, they would escape ralatively unharmed? If you thought you could be seriously hurt from a relatively slow speed crash, they would be extra careful when maneurering. Again with speed, vehicles manage it so easily that people don't notice how fast they are sometimes going and it is easy to break the speed limit because you are sealed into a box and don't notice the windspeed as you drive. - Is driving less safe because people pay less attention because cars are so safe nowadays?

With regard to your point on headlights I have a new bike (Triumph) and the headlights ARE on all the time. There is no off switch. I'm not sure if this applies to all new bikes.

 

[cirC]

As drivers we all make a decision as to whether it is safe to make a turn.
The biker was going over 50% faster than the legal speed limit.Decision made the car goes to make a turn and the rest we have seen.
If the biker was doing 60mph more than likely the accident would not have happened.The bikers mother and the motorist have to live with what happened.Speed does indeed kill.

 

[Horton hears a few]

Hi, I gave a thumbs down because I disagreed with your comments - I thought that was how it worked! Feel free to give the thumbs down to any of my posts - I won't burst into tears.

How can it ever be safe to drive at 150 mph on a public road? Genuine question.

Even on a straight road with no one about, at that speed if anything unexpected happened (even a bad road surface) you'd be in trouble.

I just can't understand that statement.

 

[drew]

How can it ever be safe to drive at 150 mph on a public road? Genuine question.

Even on a straight road with no one about, at that speed if anything unexpected happened (even a bad road surface) you'd be in trouble.

I just can't understand that statement.

Was thinking the same. I would imagine that the only safe place would be somewhere you have been and have checked the road surface is 100% ok, there are no junctions, no pedestrians, no animals, no other traffic covering a long enough stretch of road to accelerate to that speed and safely stop. Otherwise, apart from the obvious flagrant breach of the law and endangerment to others, it is pure arrogance.

 

[matbha]

Far far to fast very sad can only blame himself RIP

 

[matbha]

I would say it's 90% car driver's fault and 10% the biker's. The biker should have slowed down, not just for the junction but because he can see a car there waiting to turn. But that wouldn't have avoided the accident since the driver didn't see him at all (not saw him but thought he had time to cross because he misjudged biker's speed).

I do hope that if I'm in that position I will have the chance to jump so that I go over the car not into it. I'll break lots of bones when I land and lose some skin and more sliding down the road but avoiding the 97 to 0 mph in 0.1 secs will probably save my life. Other bikers may agree or disagree but either way it's worth thinking about in advance, especially you younger bikers.

Some of the comments on here about speed are a bit dumb. 97 mph is too fast in that particular circumstance as I said but not fast overall. Germany with similar road standards, traffic levels and driver standards has long stretches of un-restricted dual carriageway and imposing limits isn't even on the agenda. I've done 150mph+ on English roads when safe to do so hundreds of times without even a 'near miss' in 25 years of riding. It's not speed that dangerous, it's inappropriate use of speed that heightens risk. I think this 'speed kills' nonsense is just evidence of not thinking seriously about the issue.

Wow what a joke of a post ,its people with your mindset that cause problems for other people .

 

[DarrenFreemansPerm]

Wow what a joke of a post ,its people with your mindset that cause problems for other people .

Is it? Or is it drivers that don't pay enough attention?
He clearly says that the biker should have slowed down because a car was 'waiting' to turn, which indicates that's whatchecwould have done. It's easy to point the blame at the biker for going 97mph but let's be honest, if he was doing 60mph he was still going to be in serious trouble due to the terrible decision made by the car driver.

 

[cirC]

Is it? Or is it drivers that don't pay enough attention?
He clearly says that the biker should have slowed down because a car was 'waiting' to turn, which indicates that's whatchecwould have done. It's easy to point the blame at the biker for going 97mph but let's be honest, if he was doing 60mph he was still going to be in serious trouble due to the terrible decision made by the car driver.

Maybe so but then would he have been there?

 

[£1.99]

I've done 150mph+ on English roads

Do you work for this lot?
http://www.thecouriersite.co.uk/FAF/index.html

 

[Brighton TID]

When I first saw this I instantly blamed the bike rider for travelling too fast. Take away the speed, take away the risk.

However, in this instance, the car driver did not see the bike, this has been admitted. Even on what appears to be a long, straight approach road on a clear day, the bike was not seen until too late. Fact.

Therefore, surely the question we should asking and which would be of more benefit to future road safety, is why the bike was not seen. If we know the reasons we can come up with solutions. Here are the possible reasons the bike wasn't seen:

1. It's dark colours blended with the surroundings. The speed of the bike maybe exacerbated this.
2. The car driver got distracted so didn't look properly
3. The car driver's mind was subconsciously looking for approaching cars only so failed to do a full sweep of the approach. Complacency?
4. The car driver's sight is not 100%
5. The bike was caught in some kind of blind spot, perhaps behind the car's windscreen side stanchion.

IMO there are easy, cheap things that can be implemented to address some of the above. For example, blaring bike headlights that can't be switched off, banning black leathers in favour of fluorescent orange ones -may look uncool but may save lives, improved designs for car windscreens etc

Bottom line, if car had seen bike, car would have waited.

 

[Nibble]

Another 'look at me, I'm a knob' comment. Enjoy your solitude in Cornwall.

Oh give it a rest. You're little rant at me was not only patronising, unduly personal but incorrect on many points. For a start I like riding motorbikes and I never once said the "world was better off without him" I said the road is a safer place. It is. I also said in other posts that I think it's sad he died and I feel for his family but I suppose that doesn't suit your little agenda. Before you get all uppity again, stop and check your facts. Many on this thread have mirrored my sentiments yet you choose to pick up on one of my posts.

Well done for attempting to instigate a binfest.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Is it? Or is it drivers that don't pay enough attention?
He clearly says that the biker should have slowed down because a car was 'waiting' to turn, which indicates that's whatchecwould have done. It's easy to point the blame at the biker for going 97mph but let's be honest, if he was doing 60mph he was still going to be in serious trouble due to the terrible decision made by the car driver.

We'll never know, but at 60 he'd have likely avoided it...

The car though was braking as it approached the junction and was well back. I suspect that when the guy turning right did look, the car and the motorcyclist were sufficient distance away that he didn't register them, hence they said they saw neither.

At 100 miles per hour, that motorbike was covering 45 meters per second. In say 2 or 3 seconds of looking up the road, not seeing anything, then looking forward engaging your gear and moving off, the motorcycle has travelled nearly 150 meters. In visual terms that is a massive distance.

At 50 mph it's down to only 23 meters per second, he'd in effect have been 75 meters back at the same point of of the 97mph impact, and travelling slower to have done something to avoid the collision, or could have likely slowed to the extent that the collision wasn't fatal.

EDIT: the stopping distance for a motorcycle at 50mph is approx. 53 meters (thinking + braking distance). At 70 mph its 96 meters. So you could say based on the physics at least, that at the speed limit he'd have likely avoided the collision. At 70 mph, he may have swerved or at least had a chance to brake sufficiently.

At 97mph on a single carriage, he could have killed anyone. Unfortunately it was himself, but one of the most surprising things for me is that I was expecting a dual carriageway and couldn't believe he was doing that on a single road with junctions, bends and other traffic.

Life is so precious, save the speed for the track days people.

 

[One Love]

Oh give it a rest. You're little rant at me was not only patronising, unduly personal but incorrect on many points. For a start I like riding motorbikes and I never once said the "world was better off without him" I said the road is a safer place. It is. I also said in other posts that I think it's sad he died and I feel for his family but I suppose that doesn't suit your little agenda. Before you get all uppity again, stop and check your facts. Many on this thread have mirrored my sentiments yet you choose to pick up on one of my posts.

Well done for attempting to instigate a binfest.

What was it said on tv recently?

"Opinions are like cat's a***holes. You know they're there but you'd rather not see them"

 

[Nibble]

What was it said on tv recently?

"Opinions are like cat's a***holes. You know they're there but you'd rather not see them"

If you don't like other people's opinions this may not be the place for you?

Anyway, no binfest from me, have a nice weekend and remember, be dangerous, it's careful out there.

 

[Horton hears a few]

Oh give it a rest. You're little rant at me was not only patronising, unduly personal but incorrect on many points. For a start I like riding motorbikes and I never once said the "world was better off without him" I said the road is a safer place. It is. I also said in other posts that I think it's sad he died and I feel for his family but I suppose that doesn't suit your little agenda. Before you get all uppity again, stop and check your facts. Many on this thread have mirrored my sentiments yet you choose to pick up on one of my posts.

Well done for attempting to instigate a binfest.

Your comments earlier in this thread were massively inappropriate and insensitive.

If anything was going to instigate a binfest it was them.

But I would guess that it's the dignity of posters over this poor mans death and his families suffering that have meant you've got off lightly.

 

[drew]

I'm now expert on bikes but the stopping distance for a BMW1150 at 60 is about 50 metres. At 90 it is double that. Had he been doing the speed limit then a) the driver may well have seen him and not crossed his path, b) the biker could have braked and even if he hadn't stopped, the impact speed may not have been fatal.

 

[Nibble]

There's one very easy thing one can do if you don't like my posts. Report me, happy to take an infraction. Anything else is just clogging up the thread. Good day.