A(nother) transfer Thread

[Guy Fawkes]

Ok, before you shoot me down, hear me out....

The frustration is growing daily within me and many others with our lack of transfer deals. I am not a JCL and have supported the club for over 35 years. I also fully support TB.

However, it is worrying that we have not made any significant signings, ie to at least cover the players we lost/let go...2 keepers, 1 centre half, 1 playmaker (PIG, Upson & Orlandi). These are the minimum we need to replace as you could argue that Walton will take Brez's place, Toko to replace Bridcutt, a returning CMS to replace Barnes etc..

The 3 positions I mentioned are crucial and that is before we even talk about a new striker (or 2).

The reason I am worried is that we are all fed the company line that we have monitored many players and could move for a player at 'any time' once the manager makes clear the attributes he is looking for. Burke has a 'list' you see.

Well, Hyypia has been here a little while now and one would hope he has already identified some players, at least one at least?! So what's with the delay?

We are led to believe that the Spain training camp is very important to bond the players and let Sami get his ideas across so should we not have brought some players in before the camp? I'm not saying it is too late afterwards but surely we should have done everything we can to do some deals before they left?

Before you shout that maybe we did try, here's another point...this 'list' that Burke has should surely be of players that we believe would actually be available and willing to come? There's no point just having a list of good players and then have bids for them turned down, ie Baldock if press releases are to be believed.

I hoped the club had various 'options', real options that they may have sounded out the agents of etc. (don't fool yourself if you think this doesn't happen before an actual bid is made) and that all they wanted was Hyypia's yay or nay before signing them.

As I say, I am not complaining about the club or talking about FFP but we did sign Toko with no manager so surely we had players in mind to move on before we lost the aforementioned players?

I disagree with most of that.

Surely if you are looking to improve your squad, you try to get the best players you can and to bring in players that will offer something more than what you either have or had.

You don't rush out and buy / sign the first player(s) you come across, hoping (or in cases like yours op, panicking) that they would have been the best we could have signed in this transfer window.

Look at Palace last season, they rushed and brought a load of players only to find that they could sign quite a few band were left with a squad that was bigger than the permitted squad size for that division, meaning several unhappy players that had to be shipped out on loan (and still costing the parent club money)

It's not just down the the Albion deciding to take things slowly (and i'm not saying that they are) but there are many other factors that are conveniently being overlooked by yourself and others of a similar mindset, simple things like a player deciding to wait until the last minute before moving because they are looking for the best deal for instance, it's not simply down the club club saying we'd like you to sign for us and the player going yes please, done deal but it's far more complicated than that with so many variables on all sides (competition from other clubs, wage demands, agents, player happy where they are and unwilling to move, etc). - Also soon we will have the Premier League sides finalising their teams for the upcoming season, and there will suddenly be a glut of players who will be looking for a club elsewhere to play first team football with from which we could benefit.

This process is a bit like a game of poker, go all in too early and you could be left picking up a few chips but could prove expensive should the move backfire. Leave it too late and the other players may have had too few chips left and have got up and already left the table (better players signed up eslewhere, but there is nothing to say they would have come to us anyway even if we'd offered them a competitive deal). Play it right and you can get maximum benefit from your move but played in a way that minimises your risks.

 

[Justice]

I could understand this thread and others like it if the season kicked off this Saturday but....

 

[Seagull by the Sea]

I disagree with most of that.

Surely if you are looking to improve your squad, you try to get the best players you can and to bring in players that will offer something more than what you either have or had.

You don't rush out and buy / sign the first player(s) you come across, hoping (or in cases like yours op, panicking) that they would have been the best we could have signed in this transfer window.

Look at Palace last season, they rushed and brought a load of players only to find that they could sign quite a few band were left with a squad that was bigger than the permitted squad size for that division, meaning several unhappy players that had to be shipped out on loan (and still costing the parent club money)

It's not just down the the Albion deciding to take things slowly (and i'm not saying that they are) but there are many other factors that are conveniently being overlooked by yourself and others of a similar mindset, simple things like a player deciding to wait until the last minute before moving because they are looking for the best deal for instance, it's not simply down the club club saying we'd like you to sign for us and the player going yes please, done deal but it's far more complicated than that with so many variables on all sides (competition from other clubs, wage demands, agents, player happy where they are and unwilling to move, etc). - Also soon we will have the Premier League sides finalising their teams for the upcoming season, and there will suddenly be a glut of players who will be looking for a club elsewhere to play first team football with from which we could benefit.

This process is a bit like a game of poker, go all in too early and you could be left picking up a few chips but could prove expensive should the move backfire. Leave it too late and the other players may have had too few chips left and have got up and already left the table (better players signed up eslewhere, but there is nothing to say they would have come to us anyway even if we'd offered them a competitive deal). Play it right and you can get maximum benefit from your move but played in a way that minimises your risks.

You make some excellent points which I totally agree with but I think I have come across completely unclear!

I am not wanting us to sign lots of players. ( at this stage). I am asking if the club is as organised as we are led to believe in our recruitment?

I ask because we have supposedly already scouted 'everywhere' and know exactly who is available etc. so why have we not replaced the. 'Crucial' players we need, in this case a keeper and centre half.

We don't need to wait if, as has been reported, we are all set.

This thread is not bemoaning the lack of transfer activity but more the reasons why we have not signed players when we were supposedly ready in May to do so.

 

[Hiney]

Being 'ready' to sign players and actually ushering them through the door with a shirt in their hand is a world of difference.

The player recruitment team, I know for a fact, work their absolute bollocks off to provide a flow of player targets to the manager and his staff.

 

[Seagull by the Sea]

Being 'ready' to sign players and actually ushering them through the door with a shirt in their hand is a world of difference.

The player recruitment team, I know for a fact, work their absolute bollocks off to provide a flow of player targets to the manager and his staff.

Ok, so we know that is the case but that does not answer my main point.

If you say that actually signing them is totally different does that not show that whilst they may well be 'working their bollocks off' they are not ready?!

To be ready means that they have gained all the knowledge they need for that player and that includes his availability, his approx price, if he would actually come to is and what he would (roughly) be expecting wages wise. Simply having a list for the manager is IMO a waste of time if we discover that we cannot get said player once the manager 'picks' him.

Working hard is great but are we really working smart? My point is still valid that I do not believe we are doing a good job in our recruitment if we release mainstays like PIG, Orlandi etc and we are still waiting for our first signing.

I say again that I am not bemoaning a lack of transfers but having been told that we are ready with a list to move, we are not! Exception being Toko.

 

[Hiney]

Ok, so we know that is the case but that does not answer my main point.

If you say that actually signing them is totally different does that not show that whilst they may well be 'working their bollocks off' they are not ready?!

To be ready means that they have gained all the knowledge they need for that player and that includes his availability, his approx price, if he would actually come to is and what he would (roughly) be expecting wages wise. Simply having a list for the manager is IMO a waste of time if we discover that we cannot get said player once the manager 'picks' him.

Working hard is great but are we really working smart? My point is still valid that I do not believe we are doing a good job in our recruitment if we release mainstays like PIG, Orlandi etc and we are still waiting for our first signing.

I say again that I am not bemoaning a lack of transfers but having been told that we are ready with a list to move, we are not! Exception being Toko.

Of course they are 'ready', but even when everything has been done and the deal is ready to be signed, any number of things can happen to derail the deal.

Take Lewis Grabban for example.

We did all the work, got him into the door and offered him a contract based on our wage structure. He was happy to sign and realised that the move from Dean Court to The Amex was a step up.

He then went back to Bournemouth and they offered him more money and the deal was dead.

Whose fault is that? You can't hang the recruitment team out to dry when a greedy player/agent moves the goalposts.

 

[Machiavelli]

The time to worry is end of August. Until then I'm not bothered.

Tony Bloom has said we will have a competitive squad. That's good enough for me.

Like you, I'm not worried; but like the original poster, I think it's valid to claim that the sooner the players are in, the better, so they can settle, the players can gel, understand what Hyypia wants, and so on. I also think that now is a period in which signings and contract negotiations will be more protracted, because FFP (and, more importantly, introducing some sanity to football finances) is beginning to kick in which the clubs understand, yet the players and even more so their agents still think we're inhabiting a different period.

 

[Machiavelli]

I'd imagine the delay is that we are not in a position and do not want to be in a position to offer terms that are impossible to turn down.

We have done that, in the past, for a player we feel we should not lose out on, but there are a plethora of players available at the moment. No one is in a rush. It's just fitness work at the moment and free agents are capable of doing that on their own.

Think we've now gone beyond the fitness work stage. Just saying.

 

[Seagull by the Sea]

Of course they are 'ready', but even when everything has been done and the deal is ready to be signed, any number of things can happen to derail the deal.

Take Lewis Grabban for example.

We did all the work, got him into the door and offered him a contract based on our wage structure. He was happy to sign and realised that the move from Dean Court to The Amex was a step up.

He then went back to Bournemouth and they offered him more money and the deal was dead.

Whose fault is that? You can't hang the recruitment team out to dry when a greedy player/agent moves the goalposts.

Of course not but we got him in, we discussed terms and a transfer fee. We haven't done that now though.

All we keep hearing is that we have bids turned down or that targets (if they really were) have signed for someone else.

Again, we should not be missing out on (supposedly) all these targets if our recruitment team's assessment was thorough enough to include that they were available, willing and affordable BEFORE we bid for them.

 

[Hiney]

Of course not but we got him in, we discussed terms and a transfer fee. We haven't done that now though.

All we keep hearing is that we have bids turned down or that targets (if they really were) have signed for someone else.

Again, we should not be missing out on (supposedly) all these targets if our recruitment team's assessment was thorough enough to include that they were available, willing and affordable BEFORE we bid for them.

Short of spending a week with the team, seeing what they do and then making a judgement, you will clearly not change your views.

Carry on.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Guy Fawkes and Machiavelli have already covered the main points re bidding too much too early to secure the players and the fact that FFP and the release of premier players will make this window even more 'back loaded'.

I would imagine (although I have no sauce) that we are already in negotiations with a number of players for each role we have decided to fill. However, every few quid we can save on one deal (wages and fee, if appropriate) will be used towards another. Given that the players and their agents are also holding out for the best deals possible, I can't see any likelihood that there will be significant movement until the last 2 weeks of the window for us. The only teams that will go early (premature ! if you like) will be those with parachute money, no interest in FFP, or desperate, and I don't think we fall into any of those categories.

And PS - You're a bedwetter

 

[Mackenzie]

Don't worry about what you can't control.

TB has got this sorted.......we'll sign new players, some good ones, but not until nearer the start of the season. Sign four new players today and that's £40k a week for the next month down the drain in wages.

 

[Seagull by the Sea]

Guy Fawkes and Machiavelli have already covered the main points re bidding too much too early to secure the players and the fact that FFP and the release of premier players will make this window even more 'back loaded'.

I would imagine (although I have no sauce) that we are already in negotiations with a number of players for each role we have decided to fill. However, every few quid we can save on one deal (wages and fee, if appropriate) will be used towards another. Given that the players and their agents are also holding out for the best deals possible, I can't see any likelihood that there will be significant movement until the last 2 weeks of the window for us. The only teams that will go early (premature ! if you like) will be those with parachute money, no interest in FFP, or desperate, and I don't think we fall into any of those categories.

And PS - You're a bedwetter

Haha, I think I must be more intelligent than I give myself credit for...or...I just can't explain what I am thinking here, I know which I would prefer it to be

I will try one more time.....I am NOT asking for the club to spend lots of money, I am NOT bemoaning the lack of signings, I am NOT asking why we haven't signed lots of players!!

I AM asking for opinions on whether the good people of NSC feel that the lack of signings is because we have chosen to wait or IF the recruitment team have not done as thorough a job as we were led to believe by DB when he said we could sign someone we wanted at 'any time'. In other words, we HAVE tried to sign someone and underestimated the target's/current club's needs OR we are simply waiting...

 

[Seagull by the Sea]

Short of spending a week with the team, seeing what they do and then making a judgement, you will clearly not change your views.

Carry on.

What I believe or not is not important.

I am asking for people's opinions to see what they think. There is no right or wrong answer here.

This is a discussion forum is it not?!

 

[TWOCHOICEStom]

Yes it's frustrating. In the same way it's frustrating that we didn't walk the league last year.

We'd all love to sign the best of the best on the 1st of July. But it ain't gonna happen.

We've got to be patient, see what happens, relax.

 

[Tyreman123]

FFS... THIS IS SO SO BORING!! How many times can the same shit be worth discussing!...why not save your concerns and complaints until August 9th, or even later i.e when the window closes..let the people who know the job do their Job till the closing date! !! and then if youre not satisfied come back with some legitimate facts and I am sure you will be taken slightly more seriously!...DONT PANIC !

 

[WATFORD zero]

I AM asking for opinions on whether the good people of NSC feel that the lack of signings is because we have chosen to wait or IF the recruitment team have not done as thorough a job as we were led to believe by DB when he said we could sign someone we wanted at 'any time'. In other words, we HAVE tried to sign someone and underestimated the target's/current club's needs OR we are simply waiting...

I don't think we have chosen to wait, i think we are in detailed talks with a whole number of players, but these will probably not reach conclusion until nearer the end of the window.

For instance (and i don't know if these figures are right), we know we can get Ward for 100k + 650K pa on a 2 year deal (Total 1.4M) as that's what he wants. However, if nobody comes in for him in the next 3 weeks, we believe we can get him on loan for the year for no fee and 450K for the year freeing up nearly a milllion for a striker/goalkeeper/whatever.

I believe that if you multiply this by 20 possible signings it gives an idea of the complexity of the negotiations. The nearer we get to the end of the window, the more movement we will see from both sides. I don't think players or clubs are deliberately waiting.

It's simply the nature of business.

 

[Machiavelli]

Don't worry about what you can't control.

TB has got this sorted.......we'll sign new players, some good ones, but not until nearer the start of the season. Sign four new players today and that's £40k a week for the next month down the drain in wages.

I really hope that this is not the reason why our incomings have thus far been sparse.

 

[Seagull by the Sea]

I don't think we have chosen to wait, i think we are in detailed talks with a whole number of players, but these will probably not reach conclusion until nearer the end of the window.

For instance (and i don't know if these figures are right), we know we can get Ward for 100k + 650K pa on a 2 year deal (Total 1.4M) as that's what he wants. However, if nobody comes in for him in the next 3 weeks, we believe we can get him on loan for the year for no fee and 450K for the year freeing up nearly a milllion for a striker/goalkeeper/whatever.

I believe that if you multiply this by 20 possible signings it gives an idea of the complexity of the negotiations. The nearer we get to the end of the window, the more movement we will see from both sides. I don't think players or clubs are deliberately waiting.

It's simply the nature of business.

You may well be right and if you are then the recruitment team ARE doing a very good job to the best if their ability.

This is all I wanted, people's opinions on what they think is going on behind the scene

 

[Machiavelli]

Haha, I think I must be more intelligent than I give myself credit for...or...I just can't explain what I am thinking here, I know which I would prefer it to be

I will try one more time.....I am NOT asking for the club to spend lots of money, I am NOT bemoaning the lack of signings, I am NOT asking why we haven't signed lots of players!!

I AM asking for opinions on whether the good people of NSC feel that the lack of signings is because we have chosen to wait or IF the recruitment team have not done as thorough a job as we were led to believe by DB when he said we could sign someone we wanted at 'any time'. In other words, we HAVE tried to sign someone and underestimated the target's/current club's needs OR we are simply waiting...

I have every confidence that the recruitment team have done, and are doing, a thorough job. And that there are things going on: Ward and Baldock, for instance, and others too. As indicated, I think others are being a tad harsh on you -- but do note the number of threads on this matter -- as I agree that the longer Hyypia has players the longer they know what he wants them to do. I suspect it's the new FFP environment, exacerbated by the World Cup, that has slowed things down.