A muslim lady knocked on my door today..

[Drumstick]

Two blondes walk into a bar, You'de think one of them would have noticed!

 

[London Irish]

As usual, LI, you are putting words in people's mouths. You don't know me, how do you know what I think about? And where have I said I would support such security targeting? Nowhere. I was just making the point that I knew you wouldn't support this, yet you are saying that veiled women are OK to hide their indentity because they are unlikely to commit a crime. Personally, I think I am unlikely to commit a crime, but I couldn't go into a bank wearing a balaclava, could I?

Your continued pursuit of this absurd parallel between veils and balaclavas is dogged and tenacious, I'll give you that.

Can I just ask, why are you so threatened by Muslim women wearing veils? Why does it bother you so?

How does it harm your life in any way? How does it harm the lives of other people?

Practical examples please and not fantasises about Muslim ladies robbing banks

 

[Biscuit]

Your continued pursuit of this absurd parallel between veils and balaclavas is dogged and tenacious, I'll give you that.

Can I just ask, why are you so threatened by Muslim women wearing veils? Why does it bother you so?

How does it harm your life in any way? How does it harm the lives of other people?

Practical examples please and not fantasises about Muslim ladies robbing banks

I don't think he feels threatend.. he's just voicing his opinion on a debate on the subject. Despite what you may think he does have a valid point.

 

[Commander]

Your continued pursuit of this absurd parallel between veils and balaclavas is dogged and tenacious, I'll give you that.

Can I just ask, why are you so threatened by Muslim women wearing veils? Why does it bother you so?

How does it harm your life in any way? How does it harm the lives of other people?

Practical examples please and not fantasises about Muslim ladies robbing banks

Continued pursuit? Two posts is a continued pursuit? If you say so.

Of course you can ask why am so threatened by Muslim women wearing veils, if of course you can first show me where I have said that I am. I would imagine you would also be able to find where I said it harms my life in any way, or indeed anyone elses?

I have never said I have a problem with women wearing veils, and dispite what you may think, I am pretty easy going and mainly have a 'live and let live' attitude, and believe that people should be able to wear / do whatever they want, within reason. My only concern with the veil issue is that I can see how a school teacher wearing one may be difficult to understand, and I think that facial expressions are important in teaching methods. However, I don't feel particularly strongly about it.

The problem with you, London Irish, is that everything is so black and white to you. If someone disagrees with you, they are automatically wrong. You need to realise that this is not necessarilly the case, they just have a different opinion to you. Once you learn to cope with this, you may find people don't get so irritated by you the whole time, and maybe you will find some mates to go to football with.

Of course, this is never going to happen because you love the attention of being the most argumentative poster. In that respect (attention seeking) you are no better than 1066. Although there is one major difference, 1066 does it because he wants to be liked, you do it because I don't think you can get any attention any other way. When I first started posting on this board I didn't think you were for real, but now I think that you genuinely are.

Finally, when someone disagrees with you, why don't you just accept they disagree with you, rather than resorting to your petty, personal insults or just branding them Nazi scum? (I know I have resorted to insults here, but that's not usually my bag). A good example of this is Man of Harveys; I often disagree with him, but he doesn't start acting like a spoilt little kid like you do, he just accepts it and will debate things in an adult way.

Anyway, I hope you've enjoyed my little rant, I really must get on with some work now.

 

[Commander]

I don't think he feels threatend.. he's just voicing his opinion on a debate on the subject. Despite what you may think he does have a valid point.

Exactly.

 

[Brovion]

Your continued pursuit of this absurd parallel between veils and balaclavas is dogged and tenacious, I'll give you that.

Can I just ask, why are you so threatened by Muslim women wearing veils? Why does it bother you so?

How does it harm your life in any way? How does it harm the lives of other people?

Practical examples please and not fantasises about Muslim ladies robbing banks

My natural inclination on this thread is to agree with yourself and Hungry Joe, but I think I can see what pisses some people off.

Quite rightly muslim women in veils are NOT subject to the same sort of restrictions as youths in hoodies or blokes in motorcylce hemets using banks. As has been pointed out no groups of veiled women have ever picked on people in shopping centers or robbed banks, so there's no need to persecute them on some spurious 'equality of security' issue.

However it's equally true that no little old white lady has ever detonated a bomb strapped to themselves whilst on a tube train, consequently surely the security services should be targetting the people who ARE likely to do this? I.E. Brown-skinned young men carrying rucksacks?

The answer to that is 'no' for the reasons you pointed out (mistrust, sense of victimisation, etc). But I can see why some people get the feeling that muslims are 'having their cake and eating it' and that non-muslims are contantly having to tread round them on eggshells. That grievance has to be addressed, without hectoring, as it's just a big a barrier to improved relations as muslim mistrust.

 

[London Irish]

I have never said I have a problem with women wearing veils, and dispite what you may think, I am pretty easy going and mainly have a 'live and let live' attitude

Yes of course you do.

It's funny though that you can look at any of the many immigration and Muslim threads on NSC, and there you generally will be. That's the context in which I asked why Muslims and veils bother you so.

 

[London Irish]

I don't think he feels threatend.. he's just voicing his opinion on a debate on the subject. Despite what you may think he does have a valid point.

What point was that again? When he put forward the view that there should be racial profiling at airport security, and I challenged him on that, he then claimed that wasn't his view. He's very good at criticising people (and usually in quite childish personal terms) but he does't really seem to be putting forward any positive view for debate whatosever.

 

[Dave the OAP]

I work with a muslim woman who choses not to waer a viel, or a head scarf for that matter.

She was not put under any pressure to wear one, however her eldest sister was pressurised by her family to wear a head scarf, which she does.

I understand from her that in some families its not a choice, rather a duty thing ( a bit like arranged marriages)

If you go on web sites and look at the streets in Damascus and other Middle eastern cities, wearing of the Bhurka and viel is actually in the minority rather than the majority.

IMHO it is a cultural thing and should be respected, however I think where the teaching of children is concerned, of course being able to see the reaction of a teacher to an effort a child has made, be it a smile or some sort of acknowledgement is vital as my wife will testifty.

 

[Franks Wild Years]

I work with a muslim woman who choses not to waer a viel, or a head scarf for that matter.

She was not put under any pressure to wear one, however her eldest sister was pressurised by her family to wear a head scarf, which she does.

I understand from her that in some families its not a choice, rather a duty thing ( a bit like arranged marriages)

If you go on web sites and look at the streets in Damascus and other Middle eastern cities, wearing of the Bhurka and viel is actually in the minority rather than the majority.

IMHO it is a cultural thing and should be respected, however I think where the teaching of children is concerned, of course being able to see the reaction of a teacher to an effort a child has made, be it a smile or some sort of acknowledgement is vital as my wife will testifty.

Exactly, at last, the voice of reason.

 

[Commander]

What point was that again? When he put forward the view that there should be racial profiling at airport security, and I challenged him on that, he then claimed that wasn't his view. He's very good at criticising people (and usually in quite childish personal terms) but he does't really seem to be putting forward any positive view for debate whatosever.

I put forward that view making parallels with the veil issue, to challenge your point about veiled muslim women being different to someone wearing a balaclava as they are not renowned for robbing banks. I was not saying it was my view, it certainly isn't.

Unlike you I am able to look at both sides of an argument, rather than just my own view. Please re-read my quote below. I ask again, where do I say I am threatened by Muslims' wearing veils? And where do I say I would support racial profiling at airport security?

Surely that isn't the point? When is the last time a middle aged white woman plotted to blow up a plane in England? Would you support airport security being geared more towards checking / searching muslims, rather than everyone being treated equally?

He's very good at criticising people

Thank you

Yes of course you do.

Again, you don't know me so you have no idea. (I take it that was a sarcastic remark?)

It's funny though that you can look at any of the many immigration and Muslim threads on NSC, and there you generally will be.

Along with virtually any other thread on NSC, what's your point?

Edit: Just re-read your post LI and saw you accused me of criticising people in childish terms? Yeah mate, I'm renowned on this board for that, aren't I? Take a look in the mirror mate.

 

[Commander]

Exactly, at last, the voice of reason.

Seconded.

 

[Hungry Joe]

Exactly, at last, the voice of reason.

They called Woodrow Wyatt that and he spouted absolute shit.

 

[Buzzer]

They called Woodrow Wyatt that and he spouted absolute shit.

what he said. Woodrow Wyatt (and John Junkin) were/are tossers of the highest reactionary order.

 

[tedebear]

They called Woodrow Wyatt that and he spouted absolute shit.

Yes but it was good clean shit!

 

[Hungry Joe]

Yes but it was good clean shit!

That you could your Nan round the old Joanna.

 

[London Irish]

Unlike you I am able to look at both sides of an argument, rather than just my own view.

But the point about looking at two sides of an argument is what, to say both are great? Surely it's to decide which is the best? Take racial profiling at airports. There are two sides of the argument, but which is the better and which will better suit our circumstances in today's security situation? I've explained in logical terms why I think racial profiling is wrong and will backfire in terms of us getting vital information to the police about terrorism, what's your view? You raised the issue in this thread, so you must have one surely?

Also, you've raised the point about it being double standards because Muslim women are allowed to wear veils in banks whereas everyone else isn't allowed to wear balaclavas or masks. Now, I think that's a glib comparison because there is a well-documented history of a crime threat with people in balaclavas and masks, but no known crime threat with women in veils. So here I am looking at both sides of the argument, but coming to the conclusion that, on the available historical evidence, this objection to veils is very silly. Again, what's your view? You've raised this issue, do you think women should be banned from wearing veils in banks?

 

[Robot Chicken]

Is this funny?

 

[London Irish]

They called Woodrow Wyatt that and he spouted absolute shit.

*shudder*

 

[British Bulldog]

But the point about looking at two sides of an argument is what,

Something you'll never know the answer too!